Tanking EV and Karrags as Sentinel

[Murferoo]

Anyone else serving as MT for their guilds/pugs as a Sentinel?

 

I've tanked the first 2-3 bosses of the 2 above (normal mode) without much of a hitch and was wondering if the more experienced guys here had tanked through all of it on Hard mode yet? We haven't gotten further yet due to time limitations for some in the group but assuming/hoping I will be able to finish them as Sent. Just curious if you guys wind up tanking these and how it works out for you.

[AeetesSixFive]

Thought you were trolling at first but guess not. So uhm is it that hard to find a tank? I mean as watchman I would be able to keep aggro but I don't see it as a viable option at all honestly.

[Murferoo]

No - not trolling at all lol, and in our guild, yes, lol - the only one who has a tank is me, a 50 vanny, which I don't like to play. We have plenty of healers and plenty of sentinels (bout 12 of us) but no viable tank so we have had to improvise.

 

And yes, I am watch spec.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Murferoo

[AeetesSixFive]

I really wouldn't suggest it on a lot of the bosses on HM they hit pretty hard. I dunno bout normal's never really did em.

[Murferoo]

I really wouldn't suggest it on a lot of the bosses on HM they hit pretty hard. I dunno bout normal's never really did em.

 

Have you tried it?

 

More wondering from people who HAVE tanked as a SENT - not those who theorize but don't do it. It's doable on Normal mode, as i've done it - just wondering if it's doable on Hard Mode? Anyone?

[AeetesSixFive]

Well I've pulled aggro and pretty much get one shotted so if that says anything. I haven't actually tried it and like I said I wouldn't.

[andrew_b_gross]

Have you tried it?

 

More wondering from people who HAVE tanked as a SENT - not those who theorize but don't do it. It's doable on Normal mode, as i've done it - just wondering if it's doable on Hard Mode? Anyone?

 

I doubt very much if anyone other than yourself has tried it, since it's obvious it can't be done.

 

You have ZERO abilities that allow you to taunt or artificially inflate your threat. The FIRST time a healer pulls aggro your raid wipes. Who would try that?

 

Tanking isn't just (or even primarily) about soaking up damage; it's about making sure that everything that needs to be kept away from the squishies, is kept away from the squishies. You could play the class perfectly and it wouldn't matter, because you don't have any abilities that allow you to do that.

 

The first boss in Karrags doesn't have an aggro table, so there's no meaning in saying you tanked that. The first boss in EV doesn't have a single add, so yeah, I guess if you just make sure you are top melee DPS and your healers aren't over taxed you're good to go there. What's your strategy for a fight that has adds? How are you going to grab them and keep them?

 

What are you going to do in a fight where the mechanics don't allow you to dps for extended stretches? For example, on Soa, when you're in the mind trap for 15 seconds doing no DPS, how exactly are you planning on grabbing him again when you get out?

 

I honestly suggest that you read some tanking guides for the tanking classes so that you gain and understanding and appreciation of what it means to tank; it will make you a better DPSer. The fact that you can even ask this question indicates that you don't really understand what a tank does in a raid.

[Talorra]

I have tanked sometimes in hard modes. On accident.

 

You'll get blasted. Defensive cooldowns only go so far. You can skate it on those normal mode bosses because any decent healing team can push through the incoming damage. The bosses not only hit harder in hard mode (and higher) but the mechanics change as well.

 

That being said, I did keep HM Soa's attention long enough when our MT fell for our OT to be freed from a mind trap in phase 3 and pull him back. That was kind of cool. But we could use Pacify then, so it was a snoozefest on incoming damage.

 

 

Really, it's not having the tanking abilities and taunts that are going to ruin the day. If you lose aggro to someone you have no quick way of pulling it back. All your defensive CDs won't help the ranged DPS who is about to get one-shotted by something.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Talorra

[Murferoo]

I doubt very much if anyone other than yourself has tried it, since it's obvious it can't be done.

 

You have ZERO abilities that allow you to taunt or artificially inflate your threat. The FIRST time a healer pulls aggro your raid wipes. Who would try that?

 

Tanking isn't just (or even primarily) about soaking up damage; it's about making sure that everything that needs to be kept away from the squishies, is kept away from the squishies. You could play the class perfectly and it wouldn't matter, because you don't have any abilities that allow you to do that.

 

The first boss in Karrags doesn't have an aggro table, so there's no meaning in saying you tanked that. The first boss in EV doesn't have a single add, so yeah, I guess if you just make sure you are top melee DPS and your healers aren't over taxed you're good to go there. What's your strategy for a fight that has adds? How are you going to grab them and keep them?

 

What are you going to do in a fight where the mechanics don't allow you to dps for extended stretches? For example, on Soa, when you're in the mind trap for 15 seconds doing no DPS, how exactly are you planning on grabbing him again when you get out?

 

I honestly suggest that you read some tanking guides for the tanking classes so that you gain and understanding and appreciation of what it means to tank; it will make you a better DPSer. The fact that you can even ask this question indicates that you don't really understand what a tank does in a raid.

 

Creds aside (have played tanks at diff times for almost 15 years, including 4 as a MT in EQ in a 200 man guild) - of course I'm not tanking in the traditional sense, how can I?

 

What we ARE doing however is utilizing as many tricks as possible without a MT - that includes threat gen, positioning, sustaining high dps, aggro mgmt., if ever I lose it to another sent, that sent invis's to drop aggro and I get it back using adrenal - hit valor and inspiration and those who can drop aggro drop it.

 

Anyway, we had one tank tonight - was very helpful but we only got as far as the pillars where I off-tanked one pillar and the tank did the other.

 

Is it ideal? Of course not, but if even for kicks, it's worth giving it a shot - as far as i can tell, the first 3 in EV and Karaga are all doable with Sent alone (if he has high enough DPS and a team on vent that listens) don't know about the remaining bosses yet.

 

I'm not uber geared by the way - bout 7 champ, rest cent/columi or so. With endurance rakata 17.5k hit.

[Derian]

What game had a Trinity system 15 years ago?

[Murferoo]

Well Everquest is probably the one you've heard of, although that was more like 13 years ago, but prior to that I played DIKU/Circle MUDs (SneezyMUD) for almost ten years where just about everything you know about MMO's sprang from including the trinity.

[CivicTiger]

I wonder why you're trying to show off by tanking as sentinel.. you must be an awful sentinel to not do your primary function - which of course is DPS.

[Xerain]

it would be funny to pull all the mods out of the jugg gear and put them into sent gear so you can get all that defense and see how it goes...

[nschlan]

I'd like to see a vid of this for proof . The 1st boss in EV? I can believe that. The first in KP? No one should be trying to tank. 2nd in EV? Maybe, depends on how hard he hits tanks in normal (haven't done normal in a looong time now), but you can at least sit in there for his Pounces. 2nd boss in Karagga? 2 tanks are recommended but you can handle the healing guy as a Sent, I've done it. 3rd boss in EV? there is no 3rd boss, it's a joke of a fight. 3rd boss in KP? Dunno how hard he hits but from what I've seen it could work on normal with good healers. Infernal council...yeah...nothing needs to be said there. Soa and the last 2 in KP? I HIGHLY doubt a medium armor dps class could tank them.

 

Of course, this is all taking into account the fact that you hold aggro.

Edited February 9, 2012 by nschlan

[Crabbok]

This thread is absurd Edited February 9, 2012 by Crabbok

[Murferoo]

I wonder why you're trying to show off by tanking as sentinel.. you must be an awful sentinel to not do your primary function - which of course is DPS.

 

Hmm - have you read the thread? We've been doing it this way out of necessity. Yeah, I must be terrible to resort to utilizing every mechanic/ability/trinket a sent has to do something we're not designed to do....and then doing it! Just terrible!

 

No need to be jealous sweet cheeks.

[Murferoo]

I'd like to see a vid of this for proof . The 1st boss in EV? I can believe that. The first in KP? No one should be trying to tank. 2nd in EV? Maybe, depends on how hard he hits tanks in normal (haven't done normal in a looong time now), but you can at least sit in there for his Pounces. 2nd boss in Karagga? 2 tanks are recommended but you can handle the healing guy as a Sent, I've done it. 3rd boss in EV? there is no 3rd boss, it's a joke of a fight. 3rd boss in KP? Dunno how hard he hits but from what I've seen it could work on normal with good healers. Infernal council...yeah...nothing needs to be said there. Soa and the last 2 in KP? I HIGHLY doubt a medium armor dps class could tank them.

 

Of course, this is all taking into account the fact that you hold aggro.

 

1st in KP - Agreed

2nd in KP - One Sent MT on each

3rd in KP - Sent Tank - very difficult frankly ...losing aggro isn't the difficulty, its getting enough heals to stay up through the rages.

 

1st in EV - not a whole lot of tanking involved

2nd in EV - tankable

3rd in EV - the heroic adds on 3rd round hit very hard - tankable with sents

 

So - the POINT is - the first 3 mobs in both KP and EV are doable as Sentinels. If you guys don't believe me, grab your ball sack for a minute and go do it rather than scoff at something you haven't tried. If anything you will find it's pretty fun. I have no idea bout the other bosses, haven't done them yet - won't be surprised if it's not doable - was hoping I would find someone here who had....guess not.

 

Is this ideal, no, of course not. Is it fun - yes.

 

Oh yeah, G13 game pad helps A LOT. If you post 300-400k+ dps plus 100K+ healing n PVP than you know what I'm talking about. If you don't - don't try the above.

[andrew_b_gross]

 

Is this ideal, no, of course not. Is it fun - yes.

 

The question that you're posing in this thread really breaks down into two questions:

 

"Do all of the fights in both end game Ops lack mechanics that require threat generation abilities?"

 

"Do all of the fights in both end game Ops deal out small enough amounts of damage at a slow enough pace that a squishy DPS class can survive being the focus of attack?"

 

For the first question, as you have seen, the early fights in both Ops are very easy in terms of threat management. Some of the latter fights, that won't be the case, which is what you'd expect.

 

For the 2nd question, I can't answer you on normal mode. I would have thought the answer was a definitiive "no", but since you're able to tank the 1st and 2nd bosses on EV in normal mode, I'm not so sure. However, I can pretty definitively say that the answer is "no" on Hard Mode. Hard Mode isn't particularly hard, but the damage is scaled up enough that you can't take being focused if you're not a tank.

[Murferoo]

The question that you're posing in this thread really breaks down into two questions:

 

"Do all of the fights in both end game Ops lack mechanics that require threat generation abilities?"

 

"Do all of the fights in both end game Ops deal out small enough amounts of damage at a slow enough pace that a squishy DPS class can survive being the focus of attack?"

 

For the first question, as you have seen, the early fights in both Ops are very easy in terms of threat management. Some of the latter fights, that won't be the case, which is what you'd expect.

 

For the 2nd question, I can't answer you on normal mode. I would have thought the answer was a definitiive "no", but since you're able to tank the 1st and 2nd bosses on EV in normal mode, I'm not so sure. However, I can pretty definitively say that the answer is "no" on Hard Mode. Hard Mode isn't particularly hard, but the damage is scaled up enough that you can't take being focused if you're not a tank.

 

Thank you - was sort of what I was expecting. As I'm not fully geared, I was hoping that perhaps there were some uber stat sentinels out there with a fantastic group behind them that might be swinging this but it's looking like probably not.

[andrew_b_gross]

The Ops don't share a lockout between Normal and HM. So you could ask your guild to spend 15 minutes at the beginning of your next raid doing EV in HM. 15 minutes would be plenty to give you a feel for how the damage scales up. Doing this wouldn't in any way impact anyone's ability to do EV in normal mode.