There's too much RNG!!

[Greyfeld]

I was thinking about this today: How many types of RNG does it take to craft an item?

 

1. A mission must be available of the proper material grade to have a chance of acquiring the materials you need.

2. The mission can be of any yield from Moderate on up, which directly effects the amount of said material you receive.

3. There is a random chance of the mission failing.

4. There is a random chance of not even getting the material you're fishing for to begin with.

5. Re-engineering to receive higher tier upgrade schematics can happen on the first try, or still fail to happen after 100.

6. In consideration of gear with branching tiers of upgrades, there is a chance of getting one of 3 different items. Then one of 5 different items for the next tier.

 

 

The reason why the crafting system is nearly broken isn't because it's an inherently bad system, it's because every step along the path to crafting items has an RNG factor attached to it. Some RNG is to be expected, if for no other reason than to create a time sink, as MMOs are wont to do; but there comes a point when it just becomes soul-crushingly frustrating. A point where it just makes one want to say, "Screw it, I don't care, I'll just buy something from the vendor."

 

So, how do we fix this? Well, there are a couple options. Keep in mind, these are only my own thoughts, and are separate ideas, not meant to be taken as suggestions to all be combined together.

 

 

1. Allow players to send their companions out for specific materials. Being able to control what materials you gather from your missions would go a long way to decrease the time required in the "gathering" period of crafting.

 

2. Let players choose which schematic their items upgrade into. Having to craft and RE 20 items wouldn't be so incredibly frustrating if you didn't have a 66% chance of discovering the wrong schematic (or 80% chance when unlocking a tier 3 schematic).

 

3. Place a scaling % chance to succeed in discovering new schematics. Each time a player REs an item and fails to discover a new schematic, he should receive an increased % chance to discover one on his next RE, which stacks with each failure until a successful RE, at which point it resets back to the base percentage (maybe 1% per failed RE). This would give some sort of cap to the required amount of time and materials a player has to dump into getting an upgrade, to keep outlying runs of bad luck from screwing over players who RE 100+ items and still can't get an upgrade.

 

 

These are just a few thoughts, and anybody is welcome to make their own suggestions as well.

[LagLovah]

The RNG on the Re wouldnt be as bad if you had more control over your gathering missions, OR if all of the crafting gathering skills had the ability to farm from monsters.

 

Underworld trading and diplomacy work fine, altho it can be very hard to get underworld metals missions at rank 6. Archaelogy however.... what a nightmare I cant even begin to put to words how poorly implemented this gathering ability is, with their random mission rewards.

 

It feels like, each type of gear should have its own unique affixs.. I dont understand why sentinel gear can proc defense, it is just another failure and creates clutter in your crafting lists. If upon crafting and all of the affixs were viable for the item then the current way of doing things wouldnt be so bad dont you think?

[Greyfeld]

/bumpity

[SteelPiranha]

OR if all of the crafting gathering skills had the ability to farm from monsters.

 

 

I've wondered about this for a while. I only have experience with UT, but it would be really nice to be able to farm these mats from world nodes somehow....Even a vendor would be nice IMO

[Greyfeld]

I've wondered about this for a while. I only have experience with UT, but it would be really nice to be able to farm these mats from world nodes somehow....Even a vendor would be nice IMO

 

I think he was referring more to Archeology, which is limited to world nodes (and those are few and far in between), as opposed to Scavenging and Bioanalysis which allows you to gather off of droids and wild animals, respectively.

[SteelPiranha]

I think he was referring more to Archeology, which is limited to world nodes (and those are few and far in between), as opposed to Scavenging and Bioanalysis which allows you to gather off of droids and wild animals, respectively.

 

Yeah my post was more of an off-topic thought. But I do agree with everything so far:)

[PlagaNerezza]

I don't understand why crafters have this RNG on player crafted items if 99% of these items are second tier items.

 

I have a cybertech. Nothing I make is best in class. If the intention is to annoy me you've been successful. Thank you for wasting my time and giving me no success. I want purple level 49 armor+mods. I won't get that before I get the RNG bags to give me better gear.

 

How dumb is that. On a side note. Increase the mission crafting materials rewards. I'd like to be able to make and re more useless items faster.

 

Nothing sells on the GTN I craft. That is insane.

[Esproc]

As you have said about the RNG being a bit ... off.

 

I can log off and on trying to find a better than Moderate level 3 Underworldtrading mission for metals. Whether it is RNG or a bug I am not sure, but the best I have found doing this in weeks has been Bountiful Missions, no Rich.

 

On the other hand I am inundated with 4/5 Companion Gifts missions most of the time, leaving 1/2 spots mostly reserved for Luxury Fabrics and occasionally 1 may be for metals.

 

As for Level 6 Underworldtrading Missions for Metals, Don't, it is Bugged, as Rich Missions cost the same as Moderate missions and are the same thing. I made the mistake of running one of these missions and got back 2 ciridiums (or whatever the tin is called) before I noticed the change in the Missions, they used to work, but alas no longer.

 

As you will all know, you need to have a Bountiful or Rich mission for the Chance to get the artifact type metals needed for high end crafting.

 

Wishing you all the best of luck, Happy Hunting.

[Savish]

Also add in the random chance for an augment slot and you have the most hellish crafting system I have ever seen and we have 0 control over any of it.

[ProjectJay]

too much rng. no such thing this system is perfect for testing lotto tickets. Find out how many items u have to re to get something u want and thats how many tickets u need to win it big. See perfect! Gambling is the spice of life.

[livnthedream]

I don't understand why crafters have this RNG on player crafted items if 99% of these items are second tier items.

 

I have a cybertech. Nothing I make is best in class. If the intention is to annoy me you've been successful. Thank you for wasting my time and giving me no success. I want purple level 49 armor+mods. I won't get that before I get the RNG bags to give me better gear.

 

How dumb is that. On a side note. Increase the mission crafting materials rewards. I'd like to be able to make and re more useless items faster.

 

Nothing sells on the GTN I craft. That is insane.

 

for sorcs/sages you craft bis earpiece. for tanking companions you craft bis enhancements.

thats just from personal experience.

 

@op as a synthweaver you have a minimum of 4 missions available at all times that are very relevant for whatever you are doing. 5 if you truly want to plan ahead and be proactive about gathering mats, and thats before looking at things like purchased missions on the gtn. in terms of fishing for re patterns there are no truly "rare" mats. be more proactive and getting mats isnt an issue.

[Terrahero]

The amount of RNG is absurd.

 

Here's what it takes to craft something that can somewhat compete with basic raid level gear.

 

-Gather materials need to craft rank 1 (green), if you use missions you need to get lucky on material procs.

-Craft and RE rank 1 untill you proc rank 2 (blue).

-Send companions on moar missions, luck determines if you get a nice amount of materials or if it fails.

-RE rank 2 untill you proc a rank 3 (purple). But whats that!? You got a Redoubt Blasterthingy, its useless for anyone. And you want Critical!

-RE moar rank 2 untill you finally get the right stats on the rank 3 craft. note: You can still proc the type you already know. Enjoy seeing "you already know this recipe".

-So you finally got the rank 3 you want. Okay, now your companions need to be send on more missions. Need to get lucky and proc epic materials!

-Now you need to craft the rank 3 recipe and hope to god you proc an Critical-effect and it has an Augment slot. Else, not worth it.

 

Congratulations, you got your purple [Mastercraft] Critical Blasterthingy with an Augment slot!

Now, you need an Epic augment. Well if you have Slicing yourself, this means getting Slicing missions for 340skill. As there are no baseline Rich-yield Slicing missions for lv50 Augments. And then you need to hope you get lucky and get an Epic augment, and even with the stats you need!

 

Congratulations. You have now crafted something that is usefull. To bad you replaced it after your first KP HM run... Which was piss easy to do btw.

 

And thats crafting in a nutshell.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Terrahero

[Savish]

The amount of RNG is absurd.

 

Here's what it takes to craft something that can somewhat compete with basic raid level gear.

 

-Gather materials need to craft rank 1 (green), if you use missions you need to get lucky on material procs.

-Craft and RE rank 1 untill you proc rank 2 (blue).

-Send companions on moar missions, luck determines if you get a nice amount of materials or if it fails.

-RE rank 2 untill you proc a rank 3 (purple). But whats that!? You got a Redoubt Blasterthingy, its useless for anyone. And you want Critical!

-RE moar rank 2 untill you finally get the right stats on the rank 3 craft. note: You can still proc the type you already know. Enjoy seeing "you already know this recipe".

-So you finally got the rank 3 you want. Okay, now your companions need to be send on more missions. Need to get lucky and proc epic materials!

-Now you need to craft the rank 3 recipe and hope to god you proc an Critical-effect and it has an Augment slot. Else, not worth it.

 

Congratulations, you got your purple [Mastercraft] Critical Blasterthingy with an Augment slot!

Now, you need an Epic augment. Well if you have Slicing yourself, this means getting Slicing missions for 340skill. As there are no baseline Rich-yield Slicing missions for lv50 Augments. And then you need to hope you get lucky and get an Epic augment, and even with the stats you need!

 

Congratulations. You have now crafted something that is usefull. To bad you replaced it after your first KP HM run... Which was piss easy to do btw.

 

And thats crafting in a nutshell.

 

And it only cost you a boat load of credits and hours of sending companions out on missions to do so!

[evileeyore]

The reason Bioanalysis and Scavengeiing can harvest from the fallen is thus:

 

Scavengeing fuels 3 crafts. Thus is inherently needs more nodes to draw from.

 

Biochems are filled with consumeables, thus the idea is that Biochemists will be supplying others and thus need more nodes to arvest from.

 

 

 

 

 

Other than that side note, I agree completely with the OP's premise. Too much RNG is too much.

 

I think the answer lies in changing the way RE-Engineering works rather than the way harvesting works.

[Greyfeld]

The reason Bioanalysis and Scavengeiing can harvest from the fallen is thus:

 

Scavengeing fuels 3 crafts. Thus is inherently needs more nodes to draw from.

 

Biochems are filled with consumeables, thus the idea is that Biochemists will be supplying others and thus need more nodes to arvest from.

 

You have a point, but that doesn't excuse the fact that not only can Arch mats not be harvested off of any enemies, but there are ridiculously few Archeology nodes out in the world. I can scavenge or bioanalyze stacks of materials during my 4-level stint on almost any planet, but I'm lucky if I get 20 pieces of any single material from Archeology nodes in that same period of time. At least 80% of my materials come from missions, because there just aren't enough nodes around.

[Maxell_Snow]

Maybe the system is set so crafters cannot compete with raid items right out of the box. I am not so sure that is a bad thing.

[MrPandaBear]

I completely agree with the need to do away with the RNG. This thing is really the most asinine way of artificially lengthening a game-play element. As of right now I have spent almost 5 hours sending Qyzen out on Medical Supply runs to get some Alien Blood samples, I now have the galaxy's largest supply of bonding agents but no blood samples. The RNG so heavily affecting the method in which we acquire materials is way too lopsided. I suppose it would be so bad if the AH system in this game was worth a damn, but that's a separate argument.

 

On another toon who is a synthweaver, which I now refuse to even bother with, I can spend an equally insane amount of time trying to get a purple or orange schematic because of having to hope to God that I get "lucky." Unfortunately, by the time I finally get the upgraded schematic, and this applies to any craft mind you, I'm just about if not completely past the level for which it would have been useful.

 

I played Final Fantasy XI for 5 years and ave up on crafting their because of the RNG nature of the system and only got into MMO crafting with WoW and Rift because of the simple and effective manners in which they were implemented. For whatever reason, Bioware has decided that this frankly archaic crafting method is a good thing.

[Greyfeld]

On another toon who is a synthweaver, which I now refuse to even bother with, I can spend an equally insane amount of time trying to get a purple or orange schematic because of having to hope to God that I get "lucky." Unfortunately, by the time I finally get the upgraded schematic, and this applies to any craft mind you, I'm just about if not completely past the level for which it would have been useful.

 

I've had this problem quite a lot, myself. On more than one character, I've had to break down and just craft a green item for myself to wear, because after breaking down 20-30 of the same item (which costs a hell of a lot of credits, considering the number of missions I have to send my comps out on), I still can't get that schematic upgrade. I've actually put a couple characters on hold until they fix the RE system (supposedly the code is screwed right now, and schematics aren't popping as often as they're supposed to).

[LagLovah]

The reason Bioanalysis and Scavengeiing can harvest from the fallen is thus:

 

Scavengeing fuels 3 crafts. Thus is inherently needs more nodes to draw from.

 

Biochems are filled with consumeables, thus the idea is that Biochemists will be supplying others and thus need more nodes to arvest from.

 

 

 

 

 

Other than that side note, I agree completely with the OP's premise. Too much RNG is too much.

 

I think the answer lies in changing the way RE-Engineering works rather than the way harvesting works.

 

 

I understand that there are reasons why at face value you can look at the other gathering skills and see a point to them having easier gathering, but the differential is pretty massive.

 

In the time it takes me to find 1 arch node i could have killed 15-20 strong mobs and scavanged them, I also dont have to run around aimlessly to try and find them either. It took me a couple hours to farm up 200red goo + psychoactive compound from the heroic area in the bonus series section of hoth, it would take me almost a week of running mission in arc to do the same.

 

While scavanging might fuel 3 crafts that hardly makes practical difference to the individual crafter, nodes do not give the majority of your items, missions usually do, especially tier 6 as even on ilum the lvl 50 world a TON of the nodes are 300skill tier 5. Like i said, at face value you might think you have a point but in practice it doesnt work.

 

The nerf they are pushing through on harvesting mobs is the wrong direction also, crafting is already to hard and costly to gather for, making it more stressful and punishing people more for attempting to use the system is not the answer.

[evileeyore]

You have a point, but that doesn't excuse the fact that not only can Arch mats not be harvested off of any enemies, but there are ridiculously few Archeology nodes out in the world. I can scavenge or bioanalyze stacks of materials during my 4-level stint on almost any planet, but I'm lucky if I get 20 pieces of any single material from Archeology nodes in that same period of time. At least 80% of my materials come from missions, because there just aren't enough nodes around.

 

 

I'm tripping over Arceo nodes all the time. The guy I play with stops for Archeo nodes just as often as I stop for Bio nodes.

 

Yes, I harvest 3 times the amount of mats, however I'm expending 3 times the amount creating consumables.

 

And I'm still not getting enough Biomats to re-engineer everything I need to re-e or craft consumeables. 1/3 of my bio-mats come fom running Bioanalysis missions while I harvest nodes.

 

 

It took me a couple hours to farm up 200red goo + psychoactive compound from the heroic area in the bonus series section of hoth, it would take me almost a week of running mission in arc to do the same.

 

Those handful of "sweet farmlands" areas are few and far between. Trust me.

 

But thanks for the tip on the Hoth heroic area. I skipped it when I went through, I'll have go back and check it out, I'm always short on red goo (the most expensive bio mat on my server).

Edited February 12, 2012 by evileeyore

[Greyfeld]

I'm tripping over Arceo nodes all the time. The guy I play with stops for Archeo nodes just as often as I stop for Bio nodes.

 

Yes, I harvest 3 times the amount of mats, however I'm expending 3 times the amount creating consumables.

 

And I'm still not getting enough Biomats to re-engineer everything I need to re-e or craft consumeables. 1/3 of my bio-mats come fom running Bioanalysis missions while I harvest nodes.

 

The fact that you're crafting consumables doesn't change the fact that you're gathering the materials to level your craft 3x faster than the Artifice crafters. The fact that Scavenging and Bioanalysis require more accessability is fine in theory, but that theory only holds up if you're playing on a server with dense player populations that are constantly fighting over material nodes. But that's just not the case, so you effectively get 3x the drop rate on materials.

 

I'm not saying that Arch needs a doubling in node numbers, but it would be nice if they tweaked them a bit. Maybe bumped up the number of color crystal nodes a bit. Doesn't help that half the color crystal nodes I find are bugged.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Greyfeld

[DaShuk]

You have a point, but that doesn't excuse the fact that not only can Arch mats not be harvested off of any enemies, but there are ridiculously few Archeology nodes out in the world. I can scavenge or bioanalyze stacks of materials during my 4-level stint on almost any planet, but I'm lucky if I get 20 pieces of any single material from Archeology nodes in that same period of time. At least 80% of my materials come from missions, because there just aren't enough nodes around.

 

Honestly I think there are plenty of nodes, maybe your server is just busy and they are constantly getting picked? I know when I run across one I can come back 3 minutes later and it's back again, but I guess my server is low population. I hit 400 Archeology at lvl 24 between nodes and missions, so I never had a problem finding mats.