remember when mmo groups had more than 3 functions?

[einsoff]

instead of tank/healer/dps and 4 people per group it was...

 

 

tank, offtank, damage, hybrid/mezzer, heals, buffer/offheal in 6 person parties.

 

was good times. a lot more fun. a lot more options.

Edited February 8, 2012 by einsoff

[Shingara]

cant remember a game that had 6 man partys but i do remember the need for cc class, kiters and dedicated healer guards in raids but those are needed in this game to an extent.

[einsoff]

cant remember a game that had 6 man partys but i do remember the need for cc class, kiters and dedicated healer guards in raids but those are needed in this game to an extent.

 

ffxi and pre-planes EQ to name two that had 6 person parties with a wide range of roles in a group than just tank healer dps.

[pursang]

I've always been of the opinion that more doesn't necessarily mean better.

[fujeo-finel]

Remember when this game was actually a different game? Neither do I!

[flibbertygibbit]

Ya I think those times have come and gone. Now if anyone has to do anything other than stand and pew pew.....the game is to ahrd and everyone will rage quit and unsub....

 

Todays MMO community is sad, but when you think about it, it totaly reflects the way society is now a days. " Gimmie gimmie gimmie, but...... I dont want to work for it"

[Ravoss]

I am both MH and DPS in HM Flashpoints.

 

Groups are fun because of the people you play with, this is the same across every aspect of an MMO. If you dont play with fun people, find some?

 

I honestly see smaller groups as better, but we are a medium sized guild. Maybe it's just us?

[MrTijger]

ffxi and pre-planes EQ to name two that had 6 person parties with a wide range of roles in a group than just tank healer dps.

 

And why did they do away with them?

[einsoff]

I've always been of the opinion that more doesn't necessarily mean better.

 

youre right. MMOs should have just warriors.

[pursang]

youre right. MMOs should have just warriors.

 

No, they really shouldn't. But congratulations for taking my reply out of context.

[einsoff]

No, they really shouldn't. But congratulations for taking my reply out of context.

 

just taking your thinking to its logical conclusion for you.

[pursang]

just taking your thinking to its logical conclusion for you.

 

Not at all - but thanks for trying.

[Tygranir]

And why did they do away with them?

 

Simplification of a complex system that was originally meant for a specific audience (AD&D players) and they toned it down for the console players that wanted a new genre to show off their "leet skills".

[Virtus-Kerensky]

Final Fantasy XI had 6 man parties, and I do miss the dedicated "support" classes like Bards, that were even more highly valued then tanks or healers.

 

That being said I think BW was right to reduce the party size. Makes getting people so much easier. Though it came at the cost of more specialization it was worth it in the long run. I do hope maybe they'll release a class committed to "Support" in the future though.

[LrdRahvin]

I do indeed...Fondly remember during DAoC launch around '01 playing a hibbie caster mezzer/dd/buff/offheal hybrid...mentalist was the class iirc...WoW changed all that preceeded it from UO to WoW release in '04...and not for the better IMO....but it is what it is...I still have hopes for GW2 Edited February 8, 2012 by LrdRahvin

[Chewpaco]

And why did they do away with them?

 

EQ is still rolling. 14 years later. It is still by far the best designed game as far as character builds and roles, Raid progression system, and character alternative advancement system.

 

But when your game is 14 years old - your game engine, your graphics, are far far behind. I know they have updated it once, but it is just far behind new games technology wise - hard to get new players into a game that doesn't have all the sparkling graphics and animations of today's releases.

 

WoW can olny dream of still having an active player base 14 years after launch.

[WutsInAName]

The idiot to player ratio goes up exponetially for every player you add to a group.

[KithPine]

Remember when dedicated support classes had to twaddle their thumbs when their buddies weren't on? Remember how guilds had to baby sit mezzers to level cap for one piece of raid content? Remember when people sat on their asses for 2-4 hours in a MMO waiting for a an unguilded/grouped healer to log on? Remember the false sense of superiority group managers felt because they controlled powerful MMO guilds? Remember a time when you couldn't get past level 10 without a group? Remember the time when we an MMO player was openly mocked and ridiculed? I wonder if these elements where somehow connected.

 

But to the reality of game design. When MMOs first game out the idea was "You can be the hero in an epic world with other people" Soon game developers found out that people have an odd tendency to group up and blow through content, so content had to be geared to groups, but not every one liked to group, so they had to put in mechanics to make grouping mandatory, this included dedicated healers, dedicated mezzers, dedicated tanks, and while MMOs where nich markets where only people who accepted those roles as part of the cost of MMOs it was all well and good. Now MMOs are having to lower their entrance cost and one of the largest costs is unnecessary funneling of play style. This means less dedicated classes, less classes that need others to wipe their own noses, soon we may see a dismantling of the tank and spank through a more dynamic AI with a reactive driven combat system, perhaps even scaling AI so all content can be soloed or raided. Of course those MMO geeks will cry many tears, but this is the way the games are changing.

 

As to they made early MMOs to match D&D or other pen and paper games you are quite wrong, early D&D didn't have tank and spank, or dedicated classes in the way people think because player strategy and lack of AI encounters didn't mandate it. It is D&D which recently bowed down to the tank and spank game play.

[Kelenae]

The idiot to player ratio goes up exponetially for every player you add to a group.

 

This, thousand times this.

[TheHeadCapper]

Remember when dedicated support classes had to twaddle their thumbs when their buddies weren't on? Remember how guilds had to baby sit mezzers to level cap for one piece of raid content? Remember when people sat on their asses for 2-4 hours in a MMO waiting for a an unguilded/grouped healer to log on? .

 

Yes i do and i'm glad it's gone.

[pursang]

The idiot to player ratio goes up exponetially for every player you add to a group.

 

I feel like this should be a catchphrase for MMO development.

Edited February 9, 2012 by pursang

[Shingara]

Remember when dedicated support classes had to twaddle their thumbs when their buddies weren't on? Remember how guilds had to baby sit mezzers to level cap for one piece of raid content? Remember when people sat on their asses for 2-4 hours in a MMO waiting for a an unguilded/grouped healer to log on? Remember the false sense of superiority group managers felt because they controlled powerful MMO guilds? Remember a time when you couldn't get past level 10 without a group? Remember the time when we an MMO player was openly mocked and ridiculed? I wonder if these elements where somehow connected.

 

But to the reality of game design. When MMOs first game out the idea was "You can be the hero in an epic world with other people" Soon game developers found out that people have an odd tendency to group up and blow through content, so content had to be geared to groups, but not every one liked to group, so they had to put in mechanics to make grouping mandatory, this included dedicated healers, dedicated mezzers, dedicated tanks, and while MMOs where nich markets where only people who accepted those roles as part of the cost of MMOs it was all well and good. Now MMOs are having to lower their entrance cost and one of the largest costs is unnecessary funneling of play style. This means less dedicated classes, less classes that need others to wipe their own noses, soon we may see a dismantling of the tank and spank through a more dynamic AI with a reactive driven combat system, perhaps even scaling AI so all content can be soloed or raided. Of course those MMO geeks will cry many tears, but this is the way the games are changing.

 

As to they made early MMOs to match D&D or other pen and paper games you are quite wrong, early D&D didn't have tank and spank, or dedicated classes in the way people think because player strategy and lack of AI encounters didn't mandate it. It is D&D which recently bowed down to the tank and spank game play.

 

Nope, i played support class's within wow, mxo, swg the list goes on and i never needed babysitting, just because i was a support class didnt make me underpowered it just dictated how i talented myself for the role i filled within groups and raids.

[Dirtybomb]

Todays MMO community is sad, but when you think about it, it totaly reflects the way society is now a days. " Gimmie gimmie gimmie, but...... I dont want to work for it"

 

Don't forget the part about "when something goes wrong, it's not my fault and somebody else should fix it."

[NinjaRockStar]

Or for a SWG instance group it was usually 2 medics, 1 generals officer, rest commandos.

[Chewpaco]

For all you MMO kiddies that think you have been in "EPIC MMO Fights" Here is this trip down memory lane.

 

The guild Blood of the Spider on The Rathe server was the first guild system-wide to kill Ventani (the fourth warder) on July 28, 2001, and therefore wake the sleeper. The event caused a stir on the server when Kerafyrm went into multiple zones, including Skyshrine, killing everyone and everything in his path.

 

On November 15, 2003, on the Rallos Zek PvP server, the three top guilds (Ascending Dawn, Wudan, and Magus Imperialis Magicus) assembled over 180 players with the intent to wake and kill The Sleeper. This was in response to an attempt to wake The Sleeper by an Iksar monk named Stynkfyst, who partnered with the largest random-pk guild of the time. Having been a former member of uber-guild Ascending Dawn, he had the knowledge the random pk guild needed to wake The Sleeper. The top guilds did not assemble their forces until word of Stynkfyst’s intentions had spread, and it became clear that he intended to wake The Sleeper, forever preventing future guilds from farming the old loot table. Until this point, waking The Sleeper had not been seriously considered by any guilds, as it was believed that waking The Sleeper would make the offending guild’s players kill-on-sight to the other guilds of the server. After 3 hours and 15 minutes, at 26% health, Kerafyrm disappeared (despawned). The players talked with the EverQuest Game Masters, and there was a general consensus that a bug had caused the problem, although some suggested (backed by statements from one GM) that higher-ups at SOE had purposely despawned Kerafyrm, because it was not intended to be part of the story.

 

The following day, the players logged in to find that Kerafyrm was back in his “sleeping” state, ready to be triggered again. There was also an apology on the official EverQuest forums from SOE, explaining that they had stopped the encounter because they feared the players were engaging the boss in an unintended manner. Although annoyed (the players pointed out that the reasons SOE gave could not have occurred, and felt lied to), they attempted to battle Kerafyrm once again.

 

On November 17, 2003, after a nearly 3-hour battle, Kerafyrm was defeated. He had between 100 million and 400 million hit points, likely around 250 million (most EverQuest bosses have 2 million at most), was immune to all spells except wizard’s manaburn spell and Shadow Knight’s Harm Touch, possessed two death touch abilities (abilities that automatically killed players), and attacked players for 6999 damage per swing. By using the cleric’s epic weapon and other resurrection spells, the players were able to bring their dead characters back into the battle faster than Kerafyrm could kill them all.

 

This is what MMO's used to be about. 3 guilds cooperating for the good of a server. 180 people on 1 task for 4 hours. When you see people post about community issues, and you blow them off like they mean nothing - this is what it used to mean.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Chewpaco