Gunnery vs Assault PVP

[Sorotas]

 

Assault = higher dps limit

Gunnery = Consistent burst damage with lower dps limit then assault

 

 

tzzzz

another person who just looks at the end-scored-dmg

 

ofc u do more dmg on the table with aoe dot and spreading ur dos arround.

But that doesn't help ur team at all.

Dots are cureable if needed (from healer or self cleansed or vanish/shield cleans)

and dots are so easy to be outhealed. ofc they keep ticking, but that's it.

 

Gunnery has the potential to KILL. Almost ur entire dmg are single target dmg.

U are going to kill Sharpshooter and healers so fast, or forcing them to run away so they aren't able to support there team anymore.

 

AS was awesome on the lower brackets 10-49.

Simple for 1 reason:

u had way less healers there, nothing unusually to play 3bg's straight without an healer.

 

On 50er bg with assault u have more total dmg on the end-score.

But the dmg u did wasn't a big help for ur team.

 

And yeah ofc u kill some ppl as fast as gunnery, but that are targets who are probally fresh 50 who have no expertise. or the right equip.

 

U would kill them also with a heal/dps hybrid build almost as fast as with AS......

[Gyronamics]

Assault is utter garbage. Very little damage...I get frustrated every time I try it and go back to gunnery. The damage is pathetic and and the ammo cost is huge.

 

That's an interesting comment since Assault has no spammable ammo attack.

 

Are you sitting about like a Gunnery spec firing off Charged Bolts?

 

That's the problem right there.

[Kenmuir]

That's an interesting comment since Assault has no spammable ammo attack.

 

Are you sitting about like a Gunnery spec firing off Charged Bolts?

 

That's the problem right there.

 

What else would he be spamming? Incend Round? HammerShot?

 

But your "burst" damage also sends you into middle regen, while Gunnery's doesn't.

 

Maybe you are trying to suggest that with an 18s cooldown and 2 15second cooldowns, he has no room in a rotation to have a spammable attack?

Edited February 16, 2012 by Kenmuir

[Gyronamics]

What else would he be spamming? Incend Round? HammerShot?

 

But your "burst" damage also sends you into middle regen, while Gunnery's doesn't.

 

Maybe you are trying to suggest that with an 18s cooldown and 2 15second cooldowns, he has no room in a rotation to have a spammable attack?

 

I'm stating that if he's burning ammo that much he's overusing the one attack which can be.

[Kenmuir]

I'm stating that if he's burning ammo that much he's overusing the one attack which can be.

 

You fail to see the problem though. Gunnery CAN continue to spam a high scaling attack(Grav Round) when you have extra GCD's that aren't used up by high priority attacks. Assault, on the other hand, can't even fit its spammable attack(Charged Bolts, 30% to proc Ionic Accelerator, your only passive ammo regen and mobility increase in Assault) into its base "burst" rotation, let alone some kind of meaningful consistent rotation. If you start to through in Hammer Shots, you just fall completely behind in DPS. For my gear, full champ, Charged bolt is roughly 900 base damage higher, or 600 more base dps than Hammer Shot.

[Turn-XGundam]

tzzzz

another person who just looks at the end-scored-dmg

 

ofc u do more dmg on the table with aoe dot and spreading ur dos arround.

But that doesn't help ur team at all.

Dots are cureable if needed (from healer or self cleansed or vanish/shield cleans)

and dots are so easy to be outhealed. ofc they keep ticking, but that's it.

 

Gunnery has the potential to KILL. Almost ur entire dmg are single target dmg.

U are going to kill Sharpshooter and healers so fast, or forcing them to run away so they aren't able to support there team anymore.

 

AS was awesome on the lower brackets 10-49.

Simple for 1 reason:

u had way less healers there, nothing unusually to play 3bg's straight without an healer.

 

On 50er bg with assault u have more total dmg on the end-score.

But the dmg u did wasn't a big help for ur team.

 

And yeah ofc u kill some ppl as fast as gunnery, but that are targets who are probally fresh 50 who have no expertise. or the right equip.

 

U would kill them also with a heal/dps hybrid build almost as fast as with AS......

 

wow you really can't read for ****, all i said was gunnery had on demand burst while assault can get higher dps if the rng is your side.

sometimes i can get 6-9 high impact in a row and just destroy the enemy. other times i don't even get one.

 

next time l2read

[Gomhi]

assault has rng based dps, sometimes its godly dps and everything dies to you. other time you hit like wet noodles. Assault tree is about getting those high impact bolt proc along with your dots.

 

Assault = higher dps limit

Gunnery = Consistent burst damage with lower dps limit then assault

 

Thank god there was someone that understand how we do damage I couldn't sum up it better my self you hit the nail.

 

To make it even more clear you could put like this:

 

Dot damage + direct damage + RNG to do more direct damage

 

Low damage + medium damage + Chance to do high damage

 

Well do I need to say where the problem lies for assualt?

Edited February 16, 2012 by Gomhi

[Sorotas]

wow you really can't read for ****, all i said was gunnery had on demand burst while assault can get higher dps if the rng is your side.

sometimes i can get 6-9 high impact in a row and just destroy the enemy. other times i don't even get one.

 

next time l2read

 

well my post was kinda offensive sorry for that, didn't mean to be rude.

 

i did understand u, but ...

well ofc u can get 6-9 HiB procs like u said.

But even then, think about it!

For getting procs u need to cast FA or CB, so ur mobility is completly destroyed, which is the most awesome part of beeing AS.

And when they let u spam so many cast skills so that u get 6-9 procs i wonder if u would't do more dmg with gunnery since the enemy seems not to los, move, or anything like hat.

 

Well since we have no combat log we can't say it for sure.

But i guess that gunnery wouldn't fall behind even with hib procs over a gunnery who can spam on a target.

 

Hope u understand what i mean

Edited February 16, 2012 by Sorotas

[Gyronamics]

You fail to see the problem though. Gunnery CAN continue to spam a high scaling attack(Grav Round) when you have extra GCD's that aren't used up by high priority attacks. Assault, on the other hand, can't even fit its spammable attack(Charged Bolts, 30% to proc Ionic Accelerator, your only passive ammo regen and mobility increase in Assault) into its base "burst" rotation, let alone some kind of meaningful consistent rotation. If you start to through in Hammer Shots, you just fall completely behind in DPS. For my gear, full champ, Charged bolt is roughly 900 base damage higher, or 600 more base dps than Hammer Shot.

 

What is this crazy branch you're going out on.

 

I know fine well GUNNERY can spam attacks and has ammo regen which benefits it.

 

HE is ASSAULT and is complaining that his ASSAULT char is getting low on ammo too much.

 

That only happens if you treat ASSAULT as if you were GUNNERY.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Gyronamics

[Tren]

u still have the aoe dot ability as gunnery, the effect remains the same. If it goes to jump in dot all and die, that's also possible with gunnery

 

For a 6 second dot on a long-ish CD, yes. It works for both specs if multiple enemies are capping a node and is a great opener for Assault to get the target burning for HiB. However, with Incendiary Shot I can (for example) lock out the 2 stealthers trying to ninja my door for 18 seconds w/out a cleanse - more than enough time for backup to arrive. I can click off an Inc shot on a capper at the mid turret and then go back to helping the rest of my team focus down the healers so that we can force their entire push back faster. Yes, Gunnery can do the same thing either with Plasma Grenade (6 sec instead of 18 for the same ammo cost, not to mention a 2 sec cast although if there's a better use of Tech Override than PG, I don't know what it is. Maybe an emergency heal. I digress.) or any instant attack, but without a dot, you'll have to stay on the capper to keep interrupting them, removing you from burning down the healers, which is what the Gunnery commando excels at.

 

I'm not in any way saying Gunnery is inferior to Assault. At all. But they have different strengths that need to be recognized and as a result play very differently. If you're a new 50 w/out the gear to rake in the kills, then going for more of a "prevent" style of play as Assault spec is a completely viable way to contribute to W's for your team.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Tren

[Kenmuir]

What is this crazy branch you're going out on.

 

I know fine well GUNNERY can spam attacks and has ammo regen which benefits it.

 

HE is ASSAULT and is complaining that his ASSAULT char is getting low on ammo too much.

 

That only happens if you treat ASSAULT as if you were GUNNERY.

 

And you still completely missed the point.

 

Spamming Charged Bolts, is how you are supposed to play Assault. Why else would you have so many talents that improve HIB, a 15 second cooldown ability? Oh, you have a talent that can reset the cooldown on it, but you need to keep casting Charged Bolts. That's the problem with the tree, why can't you see it? It wants you to spam Charged Bolts, but doesn't give you the mechanics nor does its synergize with the other buffs in the trees.

 

Honestly what are you doing with those other ~8gcds laying around as Assault? I think you just don't understand how the tree comes together.

[orangesodah]

If you are just laying there and have time to cast for 8 global cooldown you will wish you were gunnery, but if you are on the move you will be refreshing plasma cell burn, IR burn, throwing AP, HS (which can refresh plasma cell burn and slow the target), then yes at a point you will need to post up and channel an FA and then a CB if you can but with assault you dps keeps consistant if you have to move a lot.

 

@50 you can have muzzle flutting and havoc rounds as an Assault which makes CB fit in better. But you would always choose FA over CB when you have the choice, because of the higher chance to proc a free HIB.

 

I look at the two spec and just see different play styles, find the one that fits you.

 

Just want to ask question that I can't find in the forums.

If you have cover fire(50% chance to slow targets with FA) and channel FA does the slow ability only have the one chance to proc on cast or does each tick of damage have the chance to slow the target. The same question for Hammer Shot is it just one chance to proc plasma cell or is each tick of damge have a chance.

 

Keep up the discussion

[Gomhi]

Just want to ask question that I can't find in the forums.

If you have cover fire(50% chance to slow targets with FA) and channel FA does the slow ability only have the one chance to proc on cast or does each tick of damage have the chance to slow the target. The same question for Hammer Shot is it just one chance to proc plasma cell or is each tick of damge have a chance.

 

Only one chance to proc plasma cell from HS the odd thing is that if you proc plasma cell again you don't refresh the dot, I dont know if this is a bug or not.

[Kenmuir]

If you are just laying there and have time to cast for 8 global cooldown you will wish you were gunnery, but if you are on the move you will be refreshing plasma cell burn, IR burn, throwing AP, HS (which can refresh plasma cell burn and slow the target), then yes at a point you will need to post up and channel an FA and then a CB if you can but with assault you dps keeps consistant if you have to move a lot.

 

Can you read? I never said you had to stand around for 8 gcds, I said you had 8 gcds to do something, anything, and I was asking how you do something meaningful with those 8gcds in Assault compared to Gunnery.

 

Those 8 gcds were after you had used HIB, AP, IR and insert random GCD. You are really going to fill up 8 gcds with a Full Auto(2 GCDs, poor damage for assault) and one CB(1 GCD)? And then fill up the rest with Hammer Shot so you can hope for a Plasma Cell proc or another HIB if your lucky stars align? You really don't see anything wrong with this playstyle? HINT: Hammer Shot is awful damage even when including the chance to proc Plasma Cell.

 

@50 you can have muzzle flutting and havoc rounds as an Assault which makes CB fit in better. But you would always choose FA over CB when you have the choice, because of the higher chance to proc a free HIB.

 

Yeah, I have no idea how to make a spec. Of course I included Muzzle Flutting in my comparisons.

 

Choose FA over CB? Maybe, but you still have lots of spare GCDs running around(7). Still no where near as good as using FA in Gunnery. EDIT: CB + Hammer Shot deals almost the same damage as 1 Full Auto for Assualt.

 

CB: 1.33 Weapon damage, 1.99 Bonus Ranged Damage, 320 base damage

Hammer Shot: 1.00 Weapon damage, 1.00 Bonus Ranged Damage

 

Full Auto: 2.1 Weapon Damage, 3.15 Bonus Ranged Damage, 507 base damage

 

Difference: -.23 Weapon Damage, +.16 Bonus Ranged Damage, +187 Base damge

 

The base damage part assumes both abilities are trained at level 50.

 

Oh boy, I get to wait 2 GCDs of to get my damage increase if I get a proc!

 

I look at the two spec and just see different play styles, find the one that fits you.

 

I look and see one spec that has so many internal problems, compared to another that is super easy to see the flow and play at a high level.

 

Just want to ask question that I can't find in the forums.

If you have cover fire(50% chance to slow targets with FA) and channel FA does the slow ability only have the one chance to proc on cast or does each tick of damage have the chance to slow the target. The same question for Hammer Shot is it just one chance to proc plasma cell or is each tick of damge have a chance.

 

Each tic of damage procs the Cover Fire talent. I assume it's the same thing for Hammer Shot, but I'm not sure. The descriptions are different; Cover Fire says "Slows for 2 seconds when Full Auto Deals damage", while Plasma Cell says "Gives all rifle attacks a 10% chance to proc." Very different wording, also worth it to note that the bottom talent for Vanguards gives Stock Strike a guaranteed chance to proc Plasma Cell.

 

 

The problem you don't see is that Assault requires you to somehow fit in more than 1 GCD per 1.5second window to see meaningful damage increases.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Kenmuir

[Gomhi]

Each tic of damage procs the Cover Fire talent. I assume it's the same thing for Hammer Shot, but I'm not sure. The descriptions are different; Cover Fire says "Slows for 2 seconds when Full Auto Deals damage", while Plasma Cell says "Gives all rifle attacks a 10% chance to proc." Very different wording, also worth it to note that the bottom talent for Vanguards gives Stock Strike a guaranteed chance to proc Plasma Cell

 

All white attack can proc plasma cell (FA, CB, HS, HiB) all tech base damage(yellow damage) attack can't proc plasma cell (AP, SS, IR)

[Gyronamics]

And you still completely missed the point.

 

Spamming Charged Bolts, is how you are supposed to play Assault. Why else would you have so many talents that improve HIB, a 15 second cooldown ability? Oh, you have a talent that can reset the cooldown on it, but you need to keep casting Charged Bolts. That's the problem with the tree, why can't you see it? It wants you to spam Charged Bolts, but doesn't give you the mechanics nor does its synergize with the other buffs in the trees.

 

Honestly what are you doing with those other ~8gcds laying around as Assault? I think you just don't understand how the tree comes together.

 

You've just declared the tree doesn't work and then try to throw it back at me to say I don't know how the tree works? Get out of here.

 

Charged Bolts is not the key point of Assault. You can fill it in occasionally, frankly as occasionally as FA. But to spam it is to lose the plot, run flat on ammo and in pvp especially, cripple the mobile damage capability of assault.

 

And as you brought it up in another post, yes you DO use HS as a main part of Assault. It has a snare and a DoT as befits a mobile damage dealer.

 

 

Back to the original point which you're trying to bury, the post I was replying to was complaining about running low on ammo too much as Assault.

 

The answer is still not to spam Charged Bolts.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Gyronamics

[Kenmuir]

You've just declared the tree doesn't work and then try to throw it back at me to say I don't know how the tree works? Get out of here.

 

Charged Bolts is not the key point of Assault. You can fill it in occasionally, frankly as occasionally as FA. But to spam it is to lose the plot, run flat on ammo and in pvp especially, cripple the mobile damage capability of assault.

 

And as you brought it up in another post, yes you DO use HS as a main part of Assault. It has a snare and a DoT as befits a mobile damage dealer.

 

 

Back to the original point which you're trying to bury, the post I was replying to was complaining about running low on ammo too much as Assault.

 

The answer is still not to spam Charged Bolts.

 

Spam Hammer Shot? Our worst damage ability? For a CHANCE to proc an awful dot and a 33% snare? You really think this is the intended mechanic and is actually meaningful?

 

You still miss the point, if Hammer Shot( a zero ammo ability) is the only spammable ability, then the spec offers no meaningful damage.

[orangesodah]

Thanks for getting back about the proc chances.

[Gyronamics]

Spam Hammer Shot? Our worst damage ability? For a CHANCE to proc an awful dot and a 33% snare? You really think this is the intended mechanic and is actually meaningful?

 

You still miss the point, if Hammer Shot( a zero ammo ability) is the only spammable ability, then the spec offers no meaningful damage.

 

This is ridiculous.

 

Your point is that assault has no spammable skill you like therefore you don't like assault.

 

Equally ridiculous is your notion of "no meaningful damage".

 

They are not doing damage in the same way, once you get over that you'll see how each has its own damage to do.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Gyronamics

[Gomhi]

It seems HS proc from each tick. HS hit at least 3 times and all the hits comes right at the begining it is pretty much at the same time.

 

To confirm this we need other people to do test it. I test it by cast 50 hammers shot and same with CB. And I got hell lot more proc from HS.

 

One thing thou look at the snare icon not the plasma cell dot icon. The plasma cell and the snare apply proc from the same but snare only last 2s and I said from my previous post the plasma cell seems not to refresh the time when you proc, bug or not?

Edited February 17, 2012 by Gomhi

[Littlegnat]

What a freaking discussion and the people who shout the most got no clue about their class omg.

 

Hammer shot fires i dont know probably 4 to 6 shots never counted... ? so let´s say 5 times 16%. I don´t think you need to be lucky inflicting your target.

Sadly Plasma Cell seems to be buggy as i just stated in the known issues thread. Only one target can be affected at the same time and the dot only makes 2/3 of the damage it should do. That it doesnt refresh on the same target isn´t a bug imho because if it would you could slow your target down the whole time to 50% movement speed. Would be way to overpowered.

 

To the Topic. Assault Spec isnt based around Charged Bolt it´s all based around Hammer Shot and DoT´s and mobility. But if you aren´t attacked it gets quite a nice boost due to the HiB CD refresh you get of CB and FA.

 

Likewise as you nicely stated the damage. Hammer Shot does 9% more damage to burning targets and Plasma Cell is a really nice addition. Managing your ammo correctly you can do really nice damage comparable to Gunnery Tree.

 

Edit: When you sum up HS + Plasma Cell Effect the damage is above the one of Grav Round. Thats without cost of any ammo and while being perfectly mobile

I think i need to specc to Assault again. Just the buggy Plasma Cell keeps me still away to respec.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Littlegnat

[zDracor]

When I get sick of being chain interrupted I switch to Assault for a bit of fun. IR, Reserve Cell/Tech overrite your plasma grenade whenever they're up, HiB and plastique whenever they're up, then spam hammer shot/ abuse LoS. Zero cast bars, pure mobility.

 

It's great for a change of pace, and I always do more damage per round than gunner, by a significant margin.

 

However not having that burst when you need it does make me inevitably go back.

[Sorotas]

 

However not having that burst when you need it does make me inevitably go back.

 

ur dmg comes from aoe dots and dots mostly, which are easy to get counter healed.

 

on the paper u do more dmg, ofc, doting every makes big endscores.

But u have 0 pressure, U won't kill anyone who gets healed (and tbh the times that ppl play without healer are over)

 

Neither u are able to kill a same geared sage healer with AS.

 

-> Dmg on Endscore is awesome, but the dmg is useless.

 

-> gunnery casts and is harder to play. But in the end u KILL ppl, and not doting every1 so the healer can laugh at you.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Sorotas

[EthicsGradient]

True, but equally pvp is not all about kills. The plasma proc snare is very handy on huttball and the 18s incendiary dot is great defending in the other two WZs.

 

I do prefer gunnery so far however.

[LordZym]

I didn't quite imagine my thread would become a subject of such interest. I find all you comments valid and really helpful in improving my own personal experience and knowledge.