Rolled a Sent alt, finding less and less reasons to stick with my Jugg..

[Daex]

And I don't want to be an *** but if you are playing a Jugg/JK I'd say you must have really really bad/undergeared Sents/Maras.

 

The skillset, if used properly, will always win. Both classes get Saber Ward. You(if you play a Jugg/JK) Get Endure Pain.

 

They get Saber Ward, 20% reduction damage shield, 6 seconds of unkillable, in combat Vanish, 90% miss(basically a blind.).

 

Tell me again how you win?

 

Saber ward doesn't reduce too much damage on either me or opponent since accuracy levels are way too high(even with the fact that I use power/surge mods from enforcer gloves). Damage shield is countered by my overall higher armor value. "6 seconds of unkillable" and "in combat vanish" are just prolonging the inevitable as they don't get into permanent stealth afterwards. When I'm blinded, I usually throw intimidating roar and get to range for saber throw + charge or just charge depending if I guess whether his charge is on cooldown or not. If he decides to break the CC I will be at just about perfect range for kiting, out of range of melee and too close for charge.

 

Things you are counting here are not so important as you think. Endure Pain, "6 seconds unkillable" are both equally irrelevant because if you have to use any of them in order to stay alive in 1v1 you will probably die anyways.

 

EDIT: This has all been about 1v1ing marauder so far don't even get me started on group buffs and stuff. Sure marauder gets damage boost speed to party, guess what. With my jugg i can intercede a friendly reduce his damage taken taunt and aoe taunt or if it's that bad Soresu form fast and throw a guard on with some endure pain possibly.

 

And back to dueling - only thing that can possibly go wrong for Juggernaut is if you get charged first in which case you still get options as you can push+saber throw+charge without negative consequences unless you choke right after/before which would make his resolve go white and make him immune to intimidating road but hey you got charged first you can't have everything.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Daex

[Darth_Eclipses]

And I don't want to be an *** but if you are playing a Jugg/JK I'd say you must have really really bad/undergeared Sents/Maras.

 

The skillset, if used properly, will always win. Both classes get Saber Ward. You(if you play a Jugg/JK) Get Endure Pain.

 

They get Saber Ward, 20% reduction damage shield, 6 seconds of unkillable, in combat Vanish, 90% miss(basically a blind.).

 

Tell me again how you win?

 

Don't forget the healing Sents/Maras get as well.

 

Oh and the AOE Mezz.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Darth_Eclipses

[Daex]

Don't forget the healing Sents/Maras get as well.

 

Oh and the AOE Mezz.

 

If you are referring to Intimidating Roar, that's shared ability. Unless there's some other AoE mezz which only marauders get....

[Dreadspectre]

If you are referring to Intimidating Roar, that's shared ability. Unless there's some other AoE mezz which only marauders get....

 

I'm going to assume you are a Rage jugg(90% of DPS ones are), I am curious as to how you win, despite my list of defensive CD's above, when you factor in that a Mara/Sent will most likely also have the 30% damage reduction from AoE talent on top of using the 20% Cloak and Armor mitigation?

 

I'm sorry but you are facing extremely bad Mara's/Sent's if you are winning duels with them as a Jugg/Guardian. The tools just aren't there.

 

You also said that "our natureally higher armor negates the cloak." No, it doesnt. We have at best, 5% more armor unless we use Soresu stance. This can be reduced and penatrated. The 20% from Cloak cannot be bypassed at all, it is there and it works on ALL damage, including internal/elemental(unless I read it wrong, which if I did correct me.)

 

Cloak is way better then heavy armor.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Dreadspectre

[Terimac]

I see you didn't actually even read my post...and I don't know how to say this but your hearsay backup arguement doesn't look good either. I have 655 expertise..I've been playing Vengeance since level 10..I think I know what my class is capable of and we are in no way ever "godmode"...lol.

 

I never said the class are godmode , i meant i was godmode Well ye i did read your post and you was whining on cd's and armor reduction ? I know armor rating is not the best think atm. But you whine alot on marauders slice juggs and so on , a rage maruder is so easy to defeat even when they charge you.

 

They will force crush/ force choke , when they are about to do force smash , use force push and activate the saber ward and the charge them then pop trinkets and its a gg for the maruder/sentinal , sure they will pop the vanish or the insane sacrifce 50% health to gain 99% dmg reduction for dunno how many secs , just frigging keep em dotted , and when they are out of stealth again iam sure they will have ran so far away from you so you can do a force charge and keep on mashing.

 

thats pretty much how i fight Rage specced juggs/maruders and i dont feel weak at all

l2p well my little green friend.

[Dreadspectre]

I never said the class are godmode , i meant i was godmode Well ye i did read your post and you was whining on cd's and armor reduction ? I know armor rating is not the best think atm. But you whine alot on marauders slice juggs and so on , a rage maruder is so easy to defeat even when they charge you.

 

They will force crush/ force choke , when they are about to do force smash , use force push and activate the saber ward and the charge them then pop trinkets and its a gg for the maruder/sentinal , sure they will pop the vanish or the insane sacrifce 50% health to gain 99% dmg reduction for dunno how many secs , just frigging keep em dotted , and when they are out of stealth again iam sure they will have ran so far away from you so you can do a force charge and keep on mashing.

 

thats pretty much how i fight Rage specced juggs/maruders and i dont feel weak at all

l2p well my little green friend.

 

What are you even smoking? They have 15 seconds to use smash after the Shockwave buildup. You are leaping back in to range for them to use it and say saber ward will save you? Are you serious? It's 25% reduction on a talent they will use again in 12 seconds by force choking you or just wait it out OR THEY USE THEIR OWN SABER WARD ON YOU(which actually screws Vengance the most out of the two DPS trees.) They can force scream for 3k+ as well, they are not weak outside of Smash crits. Everytime I read your posts I feel like I have ADHD.

 

Also anyone who says that sacrificing 50% health for undying makes it a bad skill does not know how to use the skill. You use it to cheat death and get the last 2-3 hits you needed to win and it WORKS.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Dreadspectre

[Terimac]

What are you even smoking? They have 15 seconds to use smash after the Shockwave buildup. You are leaping back in to range for them to use it and say saber ward will save you? Are you serious? It's 25% reduction on a talent they will use again in 12 seconds by force choking you or just wait it out OR THEY USE THEIR OWN SABER WARD ON YOU(which actually screws Vengance the most out of the two DPS trees.) They can force scream for 3k+ as well, they are not weak outside of Smash crits. Everytime I read your posts I feel like I have ADHD.

 

Also anyone who says that sacrificing 50% health for undying makes it a bad skill does not know how to use the skill. You use it to cheat death and get the last 2-3 hits you needed to win and it WORKS.

 

ok iam only going to answer thing in your post , and its the 15 secs to use smash , and since you said you have only been playing vengance since lvl 10 you dont know how to mess the rage roation up ?

 

When the are about to jump , yes its a instant spell but they still have to do the animation you actually have time to force push them and when they are pushed away they actaully have wasted the whole build up without doing any damage.

[Sabredance]

@Dreadspectre

 

I can feel you.

I have a BM Guardian which i prefer to play in Vigilance spec and i also rolled a Sentinel alt and he has such awesome tools that i also feel i rolled the wrong class in the first place.

 

I still love Unremitting and the Force push on my Guardian.

But Sentinel wins in so many ways.

 

Really don't want to be an ***, but Marauder/Sentinel is just about the easiest class for me to 1v1 so you have to be doing something wrong.

 

Sorry but simply no even if you stall the defensive cooldowns of Marauder/Sentinel perfectly.

It´s an uphill battle.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Sabredance

[Dreadspectre]

@Dreadspectre

 

I can feel you.

I have a BM Guardian which i prefer to play in Vigilance spec and i also rolled a Sentinel alt and he has such awesome tools that i also feel i rolled the wrong class in the first place.

 

I still love Unremitting and the Force push on my Guardian.

But Sentinel wins in so many ways.

 

 

 

Sorry but simply no even if you stall the defensive cooldowns of Marauder/Sentinel perfectly.

It´s an uphill battle.

 

Push is definitely a selling point of the Jugg, I will admit to enjoying it immensely. I think I've gotten at least 6-8 kill in Ilum at the central point pushing people off cliffs to their instant deaths.

 

Outside of pushing and leaping around like tarzan in huttball though, my Jugg seems to be falling behind.

[KilllerRock]

I don't think anyone has ever said Veng is better than Rage, I know I didn't lol. I play it because I like it and the tree would be fine if they would either:

 

1. Make the Impale and Scream bleeds scale with a stat. At level 50 Scream does, I'm not kidding either it's the tooltip, 247 damage over 6 seconds and Imaple does 450 internal over 6 seconds. Static, this doesn't change at all. It is -terrible.-

 

2. Make the tree have overall better synergy, especially with the dots. As it stands now there is zero synergy for the dots in the tree.

 

So you're complaining about 1 specific tree being worse than the sentinel class? Combat tree for sentinel is also lacking too. So you know what? I don't use it because it is just weaker like your vengeance tree.

 

Complain all you want, but immortal juggs are hard to kill and can guard/taunt and all the other stuff that help save lives. Rage spec juggs hit like trucks, and ya are probably squishier than mara/sents but thats because for some odd reason that tree and the bottom of our midle tree give us damage reduction while you get damage increase. So you are a little squishier but your smash will hit for 1-2k harder than ours.

 

So less qq, your class is tanky when specced tank, and huge burst damage when specced dps.

[Daex]

I'm going to assume you are a Rage jugg(90% of DPS ones are), I am curious as to how you win, despite my list of defensive CD's above, when you factor in that a Mara/Sent will most likely also have the 30% damage reduction from AoE talent

 

I'm done arguing with you since you can't get your facts straight. Marauders get 30% dmg reduction and guess what, Juggernauts get 30% damage increase on Smash.

 

Sounds perfectly fine to me.

 

Now you can continue on this rant how Juggernaut sucks etc and I'll keep 3 shotting people and everyone can be happy.

[atreyuz]

The skillset, if used properly, will always win. Both classes get Saber Ward. You(if you play a Jugg/JK) Get Endure Pain.

 

They get Saber Ward, 20% reduction damage shield, 6 seconds of unkillable, in combat Vanish, 90% miss(basically a blind.).

 

Tell me again how you win?

 

Are we talking about 1v1 mara vs jugg if both Rage specced? Or a duel beetwen a mara(ANY spec) and a rage jugg ?

 

Because in the second case, if the mara is specced Annihilation, Im sorry for you RAGEJuggs. But you would get your *** handed to you on a silver plate if both players are decently geared and almost equally skilled.

Edited February 9, 2012 by atreyuz

[Shendaar]

I have recently done the same as the OP and started playing a Sentinel. The Sentinel's cooldowns are definitely great and it is a great 1v1 class. In a 1v1 scenario though, an Immortal/Defense spec'ed Jugg/Guardian can take out a Sentinel/Marauder. You just have to time your CC well.

[atreyuz]

In a 1v1 scenario though, an Immortal/Defense spec'ed Jugg/Guardian can take out a Sentinel/Marauder. You just have to time your CC well.

 

Carnage mara? Maybe. Rage mara? Maybe. Balanced duels probably.

 

Annihilation mara? Forget it. Just do not even joke about it.

Edited February 9, 2012 by atreyuz

[Luxidenstore]

Lulz to all the people saying: "Yeah if sents/marauders have all their cooldown up they destroy me 1v1"

 

Since when should the game be balanced for 1v1 duel like situations. I could understand if he could blow up a tank in a matter of seconds, but this is not the case. And after he used all his cooldowns against you, he is now a free kill for the rest of the time his CDs are down. Unless you're a backpedaling clicker in which case your opinion doesn't matter.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Luxidenstore

[atreyuz]

Since when should the game be balanced for 1v1 duel like situations..

 

Infact we were just talking about a 1v1 scenario.

[Luxidenstore]

Infact we were just talking about a 1v1 scenario.

 

The thread is dedicated to it, hence my post. People crying about their class being inferior in 1v1 situations and thus rerolling in a game balanced for 8v8. It's just plain stupid.

[EasymodeX]

Wow this thread is still alive? The only time I would lose to any spec of Jugg/Guardian on my Marauder is after I've already killed 1-2 of them (depends on their competency) back to back.

 

The classes are relatively similar, except for the part where the Marauder has twice the personal defense, and Anni spec heals just because.

[SicNNasty]

of course camouflage is useful, it's exactly as useful as it needs to be for the class to function. (i have a pretty high success rate smashing/sweeping enemy maras out of stealth , that's because I know how to misdirect enemies myself though :-p and it shouldn't be too simple either since the class is so intense those 4 seconds of breathing room are very needed in most encounters)

 

You'll get 0 success chance at smashing an Annihilation Marauder out of stealth, I actually love watching peeps spam AoE when I stealth: I get 100% mitigation when stealthed

 

(off topic: was actually hilarious, I stealthed and ran through the flammes in HB, an operative saw me and tried it... Yep, he didn't have the 100% immunity to dammage like I did ^^)

[Vodrin]

A Mara/Sent with cd's up should pretty much never lose a 1v1, they just have so much to work with it's not even funny. I hope this post puts things in perspective for people, the class is MORE than fine.

 

This is absolutely correct. If you want your Jugg to be as OP as your sentinel try an Immortal/Vengeance hybrid with just enough points in immortal to get the instant choke, stun and shield on force scream. Run around in tanking form and your damage will be almost as good as with a full vengeance build (as long as you are either getting hit or being proactive with guard), and you will have far more CC utility and are far tankier.

 

For the record I also find my Sentinel to have far better survivability than my Jugg when the Jugg is DPS spec. I never lose a 1v1 on my sentinel unless I am caught without my defensive cooldowns.

 

Edit: The other thing that is missing in this argument is that player skill plays a huge factor in the matchup between the SW/JK classes. These are two of the more demanding classes to play well, and there are a lot of mediocre players out there, so if you are good you will do well with either of these classes.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Vodrin

[Selixx]

Got really tired of sentinels in PVP today.

Sentinel do damage to bounty hunter: 4.500k damage, 3k damage, 3k damage, 2k damage, 4k damage.

Pyrotech Mercenary do damage to Sentinel: 4 damage, 2 damage, 4 damage, 6 damage.

 

What really is baffling in SWTOR is how some classes can just... VANISH. Yes yes, be in middle of combat and then VANISH. *FACE PALM*

 

Lol wut? Sentinels/Marauders do not have the ability to consistently whack you with over 3k hits, all of the burst skills that hit that hard have a cooldown of 10+ seconds, and require extensive setup (Annihilation has Annihilate, but getting a 4k crit require an adrenal pop against a very well geared opponent). Mercenaries will generally have bigger hits on their tracer missile spam.

[Vodrin]

Lol wut? Sentinels/Marauders do not have the ability to consistently whack you with over 3k hits, all of the burst skills that hit that hard have a cooldown of 10+ seconds, and require extensive setup (Annihilation has Annihilate, but getting a 4k crit require an adrenal pop against a very well geared opponent). Mercenaries will generally have bigger hits on their tracer missile spam.

 

gotta love it when people demonstrate their lack of knowledge of a class on the forums (and yes I am referring to the poster you quoted, not you).

[Shendaar]

Carnage mara? Maybe. Rage mara? Maybe. Balanced duels probably.

 

Annihilation mara? Forget it. Just do not even joke about it.

 

I think it can be done. Between saber ward, Invincible, Sonic Scream, Backhand, unchanneled choke and Force Push, the damage mitigation potential in a 1v1 fight is significant. There is no doubt in my mind that Annihilation mara is very good in 1v1, but so is an Immortal Jugg.

 

I don't think I have had the chance to run into a really good mara on my server yet, but after all the PvP I've done to get to valor 63, the only class that I am currently hesitant to get into a duel with are the Vanguards/Pyros.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Shendaar

[Richoshist]

If Maras/Sents are specced right there's no way a Focus Jugg/Guard should beat them 1v1, assuming they both know how to play. Just because you HAVE beaten them doesn't mean you SHOULD have. It just means the one you beat was either undergeared or a nub.

 

I've used my LOL FORCE SWEEP BIG NUMBERS with relics and PvP stim popped before on them and crit them for 1500. You know you're in trouble then.

 

Focus guardians are NOT at our best facing sentinels alone. But we can make life hell for them as they're beating on our healers. And this is where our versatility shines through over the Sents. Taunt the crap out of them and keep guard on the healer and they're not doing a whole lot. When they switch to you, pray your healer loves you. If your healer helps out he'll either vanish and run or stay there and die.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Richoshist