SWG'ers, are you content or bored with SWTOR?

[SeanC]

SWTOR is more of a younger audience type MMORPG. Just saying.

 

I still feel that demographic also purtains to that of swg, even most people wont admit that. I just feel the whole star wars product is targeted for a younger audience.

[Natharon]

 

A thread for battered wives.

[MefuneAkira]

TL;DR:

 

- SWG was a smaller MMO by far, and a sandbox

- TOR is a massive MMO and linear in nature

- Sandbox features don't integrate with linearity very well at all

- There are a few things that could be done but won't be because there's not enough call for it

- Fishing, sure why not

- Socialising is for players to conduct themselves, not to be thrust upon them by devs

- The theme park linear approach clearly nets more subscribers. Bioware may love their players, but you can bet your boots money's always on their mind, especially with certain unnamed parties breathing down their neck.

 

I'm confused, frankly.

 

Star Wars Galaxies never reached the subscriber numbers of WoW, or indeed of SW:TOR. I'm running off a very quick ferret around on the internets, but...

 

Est. 1.3million subscribers to SW:TOR, 2m hard copies sold.

Est. 350,000 subscribers to Galaxies at its peak, 1m hard copies sold

 

So now I have to be curious. There weren't 350,000 subscribers to galaxies when it finally went down... So how many of you are there?

 

I played Galaxies up to CU and... Maybe a bit of the NGE, I can't remember that clearly, but it was bad past that point. I'll say we're optimistic, and that galaxies had about 200,000* subscribers (although it was probably less) when it finally went down.

 

Of those, the proportion that enjoy SWTOR enough to pay for it will cut it down tremendously. Yes. I miss the sandbox, I miss the zany decorations of player housing. I miss well constructed space combat. I miss walking through entire cities constructed purely by players, and past moisture farms that were actually being run as opposed to landscape decorations.

 

But really, SWTOR isn't a sandbox and it never will be because it's clearly not what nets the real money from all the adrenaline-ran young folk who play MMOs these days. All 200,000* of you will have to fight tooth and nail banging on their doors to get any one of those sandbox features implimented, because otherwise, it really doesn't look like annoying/disappointing ex-Galaxies players will actually impact their profits.

 

Especially since most of them are still playing anyway. I've long since said you can't rely on forums because it's the same 30-50* vocal people despite the many hundreds (or indeed thousands) of people who may also have a say but don't frequent forums.

 

I can also address a few things.

 

Player Housing. You could only do this with instances or by opening up enormous sections of blank space (which were bountiful on Galaxies). But wait, they did give us an instanced player house - a ship. I agree - more customisation features for it. Wouldn't half mind being able to play around with my ship. Or even with a house on Correllia. But it won't be in player cities. City building and resource harvesting with heavy machinery also requires the aforementioned space. Remember, they're catering to 3-5x more subscribers than galaxies in a smaller space designed for linearity. And frankly, city sites on Intrepid were thin on the ground when I was there, planets were largely full, especially close to major centres.

 

Guild/City wars. Well, if you can't have a city, problem there. Guild wars, though... I actually agree that they could implement this feature, but I really, really don't think they will.

 

Decorating homes, guild hall and ships. Sure. Wouldn't mind if they let me do something like this and it can't be that hard to implement. They did at least say they're going to offer customisation for starships. But first we need a guildhall / guild ship and some homes --- oh. I'll hold my breath to see what guild ships behave like.

 

Planet control wars. Sandbox feature. TOR is a linear storyline that is inflexible up to level 50 where it progresses no further, so planets can't change hands - hell, there's not even an official war for a large part. And, although I've never been there, is Ilum not actually a massive punch up over a single planet?

 

Cantinas with a purpose. I assume this refers to entertainers. Entertainers fit a Galaxies dynamic - you could literally be whatever you wanted to be. You could be an unarmed moisture farmer or you could be a Jedi-clonking bounty hunter. Modern linearity does not allow for this sort of freedom.

 

If you want to do any of those things, you're going to have to pretend I'm afraid. I do it all the time. Roleplayers, do it all the time. We don't tend to demand game system for what we can just pretend to be. That's a lie, we do. We also accept that we won't get them, though.

 

Bounty hunters that actually had bounties to hunt (other players). I wouldn't half mind something like this being active on Ilum, hunting down notoriously high valour PvPers on the opposing faction. Shouldn't be bounty hunter restricted though, not without giving a similar or equivalent feature to other classes.

 

A complex and fun crafting system that was very Star Warsy. You've got to be actually joking. Crafting was a chore and it always is. Granted, it was worth bountiful amounts more than in any other MMO because you could craft EVERYTHING and you could get pretty good armour for high quality crafting. So in that regard, maybe they could make crafting worth **** at level 50, but don't con yourself that Galaxies had a "fun" crafting system. It just didn't.

 

Although I did appreciate being able to put a jar of giggledust on a shelf in my house. That was quite funny.

 

Merchants who could set up there own enterprise from their home or a merchant tent. (also very Star Warsy) - Again, I guess I could see this but there's not room for every crafter to put down their own shop. And, frankly, there's nothing stopping you from camping out on the Fleet and flogging your wares in /yell instead of on the GTN.

 

Non-combat classes that kept the social atmosphere alive. Sandbox feature. They were a nice feature, but not one that fits TOR's inherent linearity and heroic combat-driven story. And no, they won't change that, because that's not what nets the enormous subscriber numbers.

 

Fishing. ... Sure. Why not. I'll give you that.

 

Social events. Make your own! Socialising isn't something to be thrust upon you by the devs, you do it yourself, that's the whole point! If you mean better places to accomodate it, I see nothing wrong with cantinas for social gathering. And maybe that gives them purpose.

 

*optimistic estimates

 

On a final note in support, however:

 

 

 

Too. ****in' right. I appreciate they tried to make the place look big, but they forgot to populate it with the trillions of inhabitants of the galaxy and it's really weird if nothing else. Dromund Kaas is like a ghost town despite being the Capital planet of the Empire!

 

Little bit more life, please. Coruscant and Kaas are cities, remember, they are meant to be a bit.. Overcrowded!

 

Really enjoyed the read. Thanks for the reply.

 

Although, I strongly disagree about SWG crafting. I had a blast crafting as it was a game all on its own and a fun break from the grind/combat for me.

 

As far as social, I was referring to the annual events SWG provided. BW have stated recently that they will be implementing this in the future.

 

 

A thread for battered wives.

 

Wow. Battered wives a humorous subject for you eh.

Edited February 24, 2012 by MefuneAkira

[mefit]

Star Wars Galaxies is Dead, stop beating that old horse that barely lived .

FinalFantasy 11 is older than SWG and is still going with more Active Accounts that SWG ever had. What you guys liked was no very appealing to the majority of MMO community.

 

Out of all Sony Onlines games , DC universe and SWG did the worst.......... just saying.

You guys keep outlining how SWG is better than TOR but TOR has outsold , has more Active accounts ever than SWG . So WHatever SWG was doing , it was not something that Masses took too . Pretty Fail Topic when you compare a game that is doing well , to a game that never got past 100k players after its first month of release .

 

I have and always say "SWG FanBase while small is Hardcore for their game" . If you guys want to love it do it without Bashing TOR . Not gaining respect in this Topic by doing it.

[KalTorrak]

Star Wars Galaxies is Dead, stop beating that old horse that barely lived .

FinalFantasy 11 is older than SWG and is still going with more Active Accounts that SWG ever had. What you guys liked was no very appealing to the majority of MMO community.

 

Out of all Sony Onlines games , DC universe and SWG did the worst.......... just saying.

You guys keep outlining how SWG is better than TOR but TOR has outsold , has more Active accounts ever than SWG . So WHatever SWG was doing , it was not something that Masses took too . Pretty Fail Topic when you compare a game that is doing well , to a game that never got past 100k players after its first month of release .

 

I have and always say "SWG FanBase while small is Hardcore for their game" . If you guys want to love it do it without Bashing TOR . Not gaining respect in this Topic by doing it.

 

Hate to point this out but you fail to see that SWG had a LOT more competition than TOR does. Think about it, Lineage 2, WoW, WAR, Conan, just to name a FEW (plus the *****load of others I'm missing) I think honestly and I mean this without any disrespect but I think at least half the people on TOR are playing cause its the newest MMO out to date, and there well, is nothing else to play unless you want to go back to WoW, I know I sure as hell don't and that's why I'm still here, they released it at a REALLY good time for sales to hit a peak record, I actually had REALLY high hopes for TOR but its a big let down for me (I'm not alone on this either) I've been in 3 guilds in 2 months that have just stopped logging on and gone god knows where but it isn't here, forums are full of rage quitting from Illum bugs / exploits and well if you wanna know more just do a search for youself, again I'm not trying to directly insult TOR but for me its a huge let down, I PUSHED myself through it to try and get my money's worth (bought the collectors edition cause I was looking forward to it that much) and I'm already so bored of the game I'm REALLY trying to push myself past quests I've already done on other chars 3 times over from the same planets JUST to see their storyline.... I don't think I'll resub cause well to be honest, I've done and seen almost everything bar a few things which is not enough to keep me paying for this game.

[SeanC]

The thing that most people tend to forget that most of those features weren't added to after publish 3/4, and they were buggy as all hell when they did come out. Basically only the minority were the only ones who actually liked it. For the most part when the game was a year for closure, most people were only doing pvp content and pve content. The social interaction of the game imo was at an all time low when the nge hit, and only improved slightly after. Cantinas were filled with afkers, and most people didnt talk to the entertainer other than asking for a buff. Hell most people complained about the entertainers buffs anyhow. You get rid of those buffs, cantinas are dead. Hell entertainers were a dead profession up until they added those buffs.

 

Crafting was almost useless during the cu, got worse during the nge, and improved slightly when they brought back AA/CA/WA, but nothing close to how great that it was during pre-cu.

[Aderes]

SWG died during the great holocron rush.

I played for a year in beta and for 3 years after.

 

SWG sucks ... period.

 

SWTOR has just started - they have time to grow, implement and mold the universe still.

 

People need to stop thinking this game should be a finished work already!

[SeanC]

Hate to point this out but you fail to see that SWG had a LOT more competition than TOR does. Think about it, Lineage 2, WoW, WAR, Conan, just to name a FEW (plus the *****load of others I'm missing) I think honestly and I mean this without any disrespect but I think at least half the people on TOR are playing cause its the newest MMO out to date, and there well, is nothing else to play unless you want to go back to WoW, I know I sure as hell don't and that's why I'm still here, they released it at a REALLY good time for sales to hit a peak record, I actually had REALLY high hopes for TOR but its a big let down for me (I'm not alone on this either) I've been in 3 guilds in 2 months that have just stopped logging on and gone god knows where but it isn't here, forums are full of rage quitting from Illum bugs / exploits and well if you wanna know more just do a search for youself, again I'm not trying to directly insult TOR but for me its a huge let down, I PUSHED myself through it to try and get my money's worth (bought the collectors edition cause I was looking forward to it that much) and I'm already so bored of the game I'm REALLY trying to push myself past quests I've already done on other chars 3 times over from the same planets JUST to see their storyline.... I don't think I'll resub cause well to be honest, I've done and seen almost everything bar a few things which is not enough to keep me paying for this game.

 

The competition is still there for TOR, probably about the same amount that swg had. You have to realize though, most of those games came out when for the most part, a lot of people stated swg being a failure and the fact the game was revamped twice, before most of those games came out.

[Mathiasgbg]

Well i rly loved pre cu SWG, no other game comes even close to that kind of MMO Universe.

 

Was rly hoping they would try to keep some of the aspects, like space coop ships, and everything else about lightspeed.

 

No game have even come close to that crafting system, housing, bounty and so on.

 

But i do like SWTOR, great story and they should be able to change and add some of the above with addons and updates, plz .

 

They have a great universe to create in, now they just have to listen to the gamers.

 

Give us a adventure filled, action, coop world.

 

AND PLZ BRING BACK REAL PVP, not these weird athlete games.

 

Otherwise thx for a great game

[Kierra]

This is what baffles me there is a perfectly legit SWG Emu avalible....why not just go play that instead of hating on the TOR forums?

 

It's not complete. They do not have the funding or the man power to restore it to everything it is capable of. They come close and they have the vision... but it's not the same. It never will be the same.

 

For some reason... that we will never fully understand... Swg was murdered and is to never be revived again. Hopefully, this game and future games will look at the amazing features it had, and try to recreate what once was. Until then, everyone will just sit around and moan about it.

 

/tweak /pillow /snog!

 

[txtech]

To be fair, I do miss player housing and cities, but I knew coming in that wouldn't be available here. So no complaints there.

 

Space bored me after 3 missions and I haven't been back. I won't be back until it's actually fun and not some cheesy roller coaster ride that's designed to look like something more realistic. It's just not fun at all.

 

It's as if they thought "what was great about SWG? Ok, let's ignore that then."

[Jestersdead]

All I know is that the people who say they quit SWG "after CU ruined it"/"NGE ruined it" and never gave it another shot really sold themselves short. I admit I took a year off and was aggravated when they did that, but I came back and played the last four years solid with my 6 accounts. They continually added content and actually listened to the community during those final years. The game got better and better, despite the mistakes they made in the beginning. It will be missed, and for the record, yes this game is boring. I only play it for the star wars theme. Other than that, the game itself, the world, and the community feel is complete junk.

[Endymyon]

I am very bored....all the reasons for my boredom have been repeted in this thread already. Waiting for GW2 unfortunately.

[txtech]

All I know is that the people who say they quit SWG "after CU ruined it"/"NGE ruined it" and never gave it another shot really sold themselves short. I admit I took a year off and was aggravated when they did that, but I came back and played the last four years solid with my 6 accounts. They continually added content and actually listened to the community during those final years. The game got better and better, despite the mistakes they made in the beginning. It will be missed, and for the record, yes this game is boring. I only play it for the star wars theme. Other than that, the game itself, the world, and the community feel is complete junk.

 

I stayed through the CU though I didn't care for level based combat.

 

I tried the NGE, but that was the second time in less than a year that they implemented a new system that wasn't ready. I didn't just quit SWG, I cancelled my station pass and have never given SOE any money since.

[SeanC]

All I know is that the people who say they quit SWG "after CU ruined it"/"NGE ruined it" and never gave it another shot really sold themselves short. I admit I took a year off and was aggravated when they did that, but I came back and played the last four years solid with my 6 accounts. They continually added content and actually listened to the community during those final years. The game got better and better, despite the mistakes they made in the beginning. It will be missed, and for the record, yes this game is boring. I only play it for the star wars theme. Other than that, the game itself, the world, and the community feel is complete junk.

 

In those 4 years, they added a few features that were worth mentioning. Chronicles, story teller, atmospheric flight, and a few more features, but everything else they did was bringing the game up to par where it should have been when the nge was released due to everything being pretty much broken, or when they god rid of a lot of features and adding them back as new content since the community was still pissed. The sad thing is the only reason the game was able to recover was due to the fact that it was a star wars game, and the features that weren't ruined by the nge kept the game breathing while trying to bring everything back up to par.

[LeMage]

We can only hope that stuff improves and they bring more stuff on line. Day night cycle would be nice but whatever they bring someone will be unhappy, weather too. Play(ed) Fallen Earth ppl complained that night was too long (it was equal). They brought in weather, it rained in certain areas certain times (It rained too much - It doesnt rain enough) They update graphics (actually some of the niceest sunrises/sets I've seen in a game).

 

Fallen Earth had a very complex crafting system (some ppl said it took too long). I played SWG but not really long enough to appreciate its good points bad points. Was 'stuck' in another SOE <spit> game - MxO and couldnt get out until they pulled the plug (puns intended).

 

Yes MxO had faults but 1/2 the fun was meeting up with friends. I didnt start @ beta so IDk if the community was tight right from the get go. Same with SWG as I remember it. But So far here, the community seems rather disjointed (maybe b/c its early)

 

This game still has my attention but the friend I played mostly with has stopped playing for a while and its getting harder to log on. Maybe I'm a social butterfly but community and reasons to interact are a big part of MMOs for me which SWG & MxO had.

[Loregaba]

Hi,

 

To the OP, if you make a comparison with SWG, well, the step is very high to reach! SWG was simply the best well rounded game out. Unfortunately, CU ruined it big time. On the other hand, the devs had to do something about it because after a couple years, the galaxy was filled up with Jedis. Which wasn't supposed to happen, bad vision.

 

I like SWTOR, for what it is. But the truth is it doesn't has what it takes to make people stay for long. Everything is given a start, and within a month, your reach the max. The only thing left is grinding HM, PvP to get the cool purple stuff (better than crafted ones!) So, it's logical to think that it won't maintain people playing for long. Fast food game. It is in the air, hopefully, not for long!

 

Ketzal on Krayt

[Svengoole]

If it was such a great idea of a game why didn't someone take the idea and run with it? Where's the next big crafting heavy, social intensive, sand box MMO? I haven't heard of one coming. Companies make games to make money, there isn't enough money in sandbox to warrant a big release, no matter how much the vocal minority pines for it. If there was some one would try to make a buck off it.

I remember my time in SWG fondly, but I realize it was a bomb from the start and if it didn't have Star Wars in it even less people would have played it. I don't have rose colored glasses about how empty and boring it was. It died for a number of reasons, the biggest was it was a sandbox and people are bored of them. Game genres die, sandbox MMOs have been consigned to the dust bin of history.

 

This can be summed up in two words, World of Warcraft. They showed that you can get a lot of subs by offering an easier dumbed down game where you get things spoon fed to you. Why create a real game, when you can make money doing WOW style games.

[Jeia]

I think that what a lot of gaming studios are forgetting is that the first generation of gamers are 30/40+ and that we don't all want games that lead you by the hand from level 1 - 90.

 

SWG was ahead of it's time, I've always felt. As a mature gamer, I liked doing my own thing, whether it was pre CU, CU or in the NGE. I loved being in a sandbox game where I could create my own time sinks, whether it was RPing, crafting, decorating or surveying for resources.

 

I'm now on what could be an eternal quest for another game that allows me to do that. I check SOE's pages for any news of the sandbox that was hinted it, using some of the systems they developed for SWG. I will be there with bells on for it's launch!

[mefit]

SWG before any expanion was dead period.

 

SWG had less competition than any current MMO on the market or coming out !

 

SWG DIED BECAUSE IT SUCKED !

 

Nothing was great about it , nothing stood out . Heck most of its Community quit in the first few months saying that very thing !

 

SWG had no real story other than it was a Star Wars game !

The Stoies it did have like "Jedi Theme Park" ..........lmao

 

Crafting was decent but was not great

 

Job system sucked

 

Graphics even at its time sucked compared to even WoW

 

Most MMOs that came out in the same time as SWG are still playable and still have more of a community than SWG ever had . FinalFantasy 11 has right now more players than at any given time SWG had .

 

You cannot compare SWG to TOR, TOR IS JUST BETTER IN EVERYTHING .

 

SO WHAT that SWG was Sandboxed, THERE WAS NOTHING IN MOST OF THE AREAS ON THE GAME !

 

In the end TOR needs work but it is far better than SWG ever was or could have been , even SOE has said SWG was not what it should have been.

They made expanions for SWG in a failed attempt to being back or gain new players , IT FAILED !

 

A DEAD GAME

 

IS A DEAD GAME !

 

SWG was dead the day it came out and will always be the nightmare of StarWars !

[mefit]

It's not complete. They do not have the funding or the man power to restore it to everything it is capable of. They come close and they have the vision... but it's not the same. It never will be the same.

 

For some reason... that we will never fully understand... Swg was murdered and is to never be revived again. Hopefully, this game and future games will look at the amazing features it had, and try to recreate what once was. Until then, everyone will just sit around and moan about it.

 

/tweak /pillow /snog!

 

 

It wasn't murdered, it was put out of its misery ! The Horse wasn't able to stand up and the people paying to us it were not enough to feed it ! Finally SOE and LUCAS ARTS showed it mercy and laid it down .

 

RIP poor SWG Horse , you never did anything special and you were allowed to live longer than you should with the pain of knowing how much you sucked .

 

SWG was not a game worth anything special and is never mentioned by MMO creators as a game they used to get good insperation from . It just wasn't a good game !

 

Final Fanasy 11 and WoW are older games and still going , heck LineageII just made a comback ! SWG never compared to these games and they were really its only competition !

 

TODAYS MMOs have to compete with a long list F2P MMOs and a long list of P2P MMOs . TOR right now is doing well and has broke records for selling its game and for the community it has current !

Edited February 25, 2012 by mefit

[Drahh]

I play everyday for about an hour and suddenly bored.

 

At this point I wish they just made a new SWG or KOTOR, or even a new X-WING.

 

This is the first MMO I ever played where the hours didnt fly by from so much enjoyment and imersion of the game.

[Xenfold]

SWG was nearly the worst MMO I ever played. I spent the first 5 hours getting randomly killed for no reason, and graphically I couldn't tell what was going on. Duck Hunt on Nintendo had graphics light years beyond SWG.

 

ToR has been a breath of fresh air, the storyline is impressive. And while yes, there are things that need to be improved such as a better grouping system, slight mods to the UI, and mouse over capabilities, for being in it's infant stage it is absolutely impressive. I agree with the previous posters idea to modify weather patterns and day/night just for the atmospheric aspect of the game, but overall the groundwork is fun and laid out well, and I look forward to leveling up many more characters to 50 to see what the other stories are all about.

Edited February 25, 2012 by Xenfold

[BojatPaladin]

You had to make your own content in SWG , I personally miss my Master BH and the thrill of hunting jedi, I battled one jedi fron one side of Endor to the other for like 30 minutes , finally we both gave up I set up a camp and we sat and had a great time just talking .

Player housing was awesome , I hated when they opened up the other planets for settlement though.

[Cynomen]

SWG is my fav MMO hands down. Bugs, the CU, the NGE and all!

 

This game has been better than I expected. It has it's own issues of course but every MMO does. It lacks a lot of what SWG had, but this is not SWG is it?

 

I miss SWG like crazy but that sun has set and we now look to reestablish ourselves. This game can, and I expect will, improve. I see the efforts already and the plans to make things better.

 

If BW listens to the community and really weights the suggestions then we should be happy for a long time.