Onager Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Okay, so back in late December I made a thread about how badly Devour (And Psychic Absorption by association) sucked. My original post included the following: What it would take for Devour to be worth it? Have it make Death Field heal you for 1% of your total health for each mob hit per point, and have it add 50% to Parasitism's healing per point. Please note that earlier in that post I wasn't exactly being gentle with my criticisms. An apologist I am not. So in the last patch, they buffed Death Field/Force in Balance healing to 1% of your total per mob hit, and made Devour/Psychic Absorption double the total healing of both DF/FiB and Parasitism/Focused Insight. It's almost as though they read my post! So therefore, sit tight, make your feelings known, fill out CS tickets for all feedback and not just bugs, and eventually you'll see for yourself. Most importantly of all, be specific about what's wrong with a talent/spec/class and give specific opinions on what can be done to fix them. Edited February 7, 2012 by Onager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasem Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Call me when they actually buff Sentinels, not modify two abilities in a particular spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebbikenezer Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Funny OP, a constructive thread with reasonable feedback that got an in-game response? Say it ain't so!!! Nice job on the thread, we'll see how the changes pan out. Edited February 7, 2012 by Sireene rude/uninviting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onager Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Call me when they actually buff Sentinels, not modify two abilities in a particular spec. Gotta be both exact and realistic about the changes you need made. Call out the weaknesses of the talents/mechanics of the specs, and provide an educated opinion on what it would take to get them up to snuff. There's criticism the developers can use, and there's whambulancing. I'm not a fanboy, really. I see like everyone else what the game needs, and oftentimes am heard complaining to guildies over vent about various inconsistencies/bugs/imbalances etc, but there's a real fine line between helping the developers help you and complaining for the sake thereof. Without any personal experience with Sentinels/Marauders or having been to you guys' discussion boards, I can't really comment on whether anyone's doing the good kind of whining or the bad kind, in your specific case. Edited February 7, 2012 by Onager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onager Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) It took a little over month for them to implement my suggestions, it was a really simple problem with a really simple solution, and it wasn't exactly a terribly imbalancing one, either. One that affected both classes exactly the same. Not all class balance issues are that easy, not in diagnosis, analysis, or solution. That, and maybe those classes just need someone with some kind of mechanical insight heading the balance charge rather than 'BUTTON NO DO GOOD'. Edited February 7, 2012 by Sireene quote of deleted post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasem Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) It took two months for them to implement my suggestions, it was a really simple problem with a really simple solution. Not all class balance issues are that easy. Maybe those classes just need someone with some kind of mechanical insight rather than 'BUTTON NO DO GOOD'. Knights get their healing companion around lv35-40, depending on the player. A class which focuses on being either A) A Tank or B) DPS gets their healing companion that freaking late? That essentially FORCES Knights to take Biochem in order to have any sort of survivability. Nice planning on that one. "But Watchman spec can generate self-healing!" A laughably small amount, and it's the only reason 90% of Sents are that spec. And guess what? It's not enough. Guardians have a terrible amount of AoE threat management, and they get all of their aggro management abilities far too late. No response for my comment about how Imperial abilities, pretty much across the board, are superior to Republic abilities? So many abilities on the Imp side don't leave you rooted, or channeled, or they don't have a bull**** 3 second animation before they actually fire off. That's not a myth, that's a fact, go look it up. It's biased and it's totally unfair. "Mechanical insight"? You said something along those lines. You had to do a developers job for him/her. Do you realize that? Someone who gets paid to do nothing but make a class as balanced as it can be was out-done by you, a user. Do you actually see how totally screwed up that is? There's a difference between listening to feedback and waiting for someone else to come up with a solution. EDIT for further evidence: Smugglers can be either healers or DPS. Their first two companions are both tanks. Good planning, that's appropriate. Troopers can be DPS, Healers, or Tanks. Their first 3 companions: DPS, Healer, Tank. Again, well done. Consulars can be healers, tanks, or DPS. First companion is a tank. Ok, not bad. Knights? HA! They got boned. Edited February 7, 2012 by Dasem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PalawaJoko Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) They do listen yes and they do watch some of the threads on the forums too, but the problem is that there is no any indication of total overhauls to broken systems for example Ilum. I get it that there are many minor bugs that needs fixing and all that, but there are also big game breaking problems that won't keep the players waiting. Edited February 7, 2012 by PalawaJoko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onager Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Knights get their healing companion around lv35-40, depending on the player. A class which focuses on being either A) A Tank or B) DPS gets their healing companion that freaking late? That essentially FORCES Knights to take Biochem in order to have any sort of survivability. Nice planning on that one. "But Watchman spec can generate self-healing!" A laughably small amount, and it's the only reason 90% of Sents are that spec. And guess what? It's not enough. Guardians have a terrible amount of AoE threat management, and they get all of their aggro management abilities far too late. No response for my comment about how Imperial abilities, pretty much across the board, are superior to Republic abilities? So many abilities on the Imp side don't leave you rooted, or channeled, or they don't have a bull**** 3 second animation before they actually fire off. That's not a myth, that's a fact, go look it up. It's biased and it's totally unfair. "Mechanical insight"? You said something along those lines. You had to do a developers job for him/her. Do you realize that? Someone who gets paid to do nothing but make a class as balanced as it can be was out-done by you, a user. Do you actually see how totally screwed up that is? There's a difference between listening to feedback and waiting for someone else to come up with a solution. I'm aware of everything you're talking about. My main is actually my Sage rather than my Sorcerer (Was still maining the sorc at the time of the post linked above). These imbalances are being addressed soon. There's a lot of other stuff too, like the basic quality of life issues like the crappy AH UI, severe load times, bad optimization, etc. But they're aware of those, too. Without myself being a programmer, I can only give my opinions as they relate to my experiences. I don't know how difficult they'd be to implement in a real-world setting in the game's architecture. When a problem is just 'edit these numbers to these numbers' like in my OP, it's super easy to change and test. Sliders are sliders. When it's a basic mechanical function of a class, **** gets real. That's the stuff that takes a lot longer to appreciate and make educated and balanced changes to, and coincidentally, all of the issues you mentioned above fall into this category. Now, I'll be the first to agree that fixing Project and Mortar Volley should be easy, just copy/paste the mechanics from one side to the other so they're the same and then have the art guys screw around with the animations so they make sense, but it's probably just not that easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimism Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Let me know when Bioware provides a response to the Operative and to a lesser extent, the Assassin nerfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demorgoth Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Monkeys... Typewriters... Shakespeare... By all means think you're responsilbe for the change if it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, but the fact is that with so many posts on problems, bugs, exploits, balance and other things not working right, it's hardly staggering that a change happened to be the same as what someone suggested in a post a month ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radubadu Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Knights get their healing companion around lv35-40, depending on the player. A class which focuses on being either A) A Tank or B) DPS gets their healing companion that freaking late? That essentially FORCES Knights to take Biochem in order to have any sort of survivability. Nice planning on that one. "But Watchman spec can generate self-healing!" A laughably small amount, and it's the only reason 90% of Sents are that spec. And guess what? It's not enough. Umad? Its not like this game is hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onager Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) EDIT for further evidence: Smugglers can be either healers or DPS. Their first two companions are both tanks. Good planning, that's appropriate. Troopers can be DPS, Healers, or Tanks. Their first 3 companions: DPS, Healer, Tank. Again, well done. Consulars can be healers, tanks, or DPS. First companion is a tank. Ok, not bad. Knights? HA! They got boned. My knight is specced Vigilance (Guardian) and is my alt, so I've been feeding him and his pets ridiculous gear, so that's probably why my experience with the class has been very positive overall. Is it really that bad trying to level otherwise? You do get a very viable tank pet that happens to have really high native DPS early on. Sorcerers and Smugglers get their healer pets on Hoth. Meanwhile Bounty Hunters start out with theirs. Cool how everyone's flaming each other instead of responding to my points. Edited February 7, 2012 by Onager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregminister Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I have a Defensive Spec Jedi Knight and I got all the way through my first Chapter with minimal amount of dying. I was surprised that I didn't get my Healing companion til later, considering the Sith Warrior gets his Healing Companion still in the first chapter. T3 serves as a very good tank if he is equipped properly, and no, I am not a Biochem Knight. I went Cybertech, so I guess I was well off when it came to equipping T3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knewt Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Yes. Bioware listens eventually. Unfortunately, it usually takes something blowing up in their face before they start. Look at Slicing, Biochem and Ilum as examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts