DarthNorik Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 No cooldown on Discharge! Now you can death field, discharge, tab, discharge. Plus lightning charge got like a 18% damage increase. And devour now means 2% health whenever DOTs crit and from each target of death field. Nice buff for madness sins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkcheng Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) No cooldown on Discharge! Now you can death field, discharge, tab, discharge. Plus lightning charge got like a 18% damage increase. And devour now means 2% health whenever DOTs crit and from each target of death field. Nice buff for madness sins. Fck yes! 16% actually and it's the Discharge rather than the proc from Lightning Charge. Considering they also gave the Discharge an initial damage and then the dots, this is a good way to finish off low hp mobs too far away to Thrash or Saber Strike. EDIT: Just noticed the 18% damage increase is indeed on the proc charges from Charge Mastery, the 16% to Discharge is off Crackling Charges. Edited February 7, 2012 by jkcheng Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dedoy Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I was imagening it was viable fo pvp but its clearly not or is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabbathius Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 What bothers me with Madness is that you are essentially a truncated Sorcerer with it. Shorter range, no bubble. I don't really see the appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dedoy Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 ye well it sucks to play darkness all the time deception is ok but you have to be a *** to play that always gank 2vs1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNorik Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 What bothers me with Madness is that you are essentially a truncated Sorcerer with it. Shorter range, no bubble. I don't really see the appeal. We actually use our lightsabers, we can stealth, we can vanish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkcheng Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 What bothers me with Madness is that you are essentially a truncated Sorcerer with it. Shorter range, no bubble. I don't really see the appeal. The appeal is Thrash with a double bladed lightsaber is your spam move used to proc other abilities and with talents it does quite a bit of damage. Let's not forget Sorcerers cannot stealth. Anyone else notice also that Raze's proc chance is at 60%? http://knotor.com/abilities/188235 I think this is why they made LC Discharge have no cooldown, so you can switch to another target and be able to proc Raze off it right away. Otherwise if you cast it on a target, kill it while the Discharge is on cd, you can't cast it on the next target to get Raze to proc. I wonder though if the 7.5s internal cd is per target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabbathius Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 We actually use our lightsabers, we can stealth, we can vanish. Stealth is nice. But I'd rather be able to effectively DPS people up to 30m away than stealth to them. Vanish is on 3 min CD, with any spec but Deception. Hardly worth even talking about as far as WZs go. To me, a Madness Sin is just a retarded Sorcerer. Kinda reminds me of Balance druids in WoW being just retarded mages, back in the day. Same general approach, but far less effective due to numerous shortcomings. Keep in mind, I have barely played Madness on my Sin, so I'm totally talking out of my butt right now. I have however played exclusively Madness on my Sorc. And it clearly works very well for Sorc, and is very clunky for Sins. But hey, I'd love to be proven wrong. Maybe after this patch I'll actually see more than 2-3 people playing Madness. So far, off the top of my head, I've seen 2 vids of Madness Sins, and in both cases the player was vastly outgearing the enemy and underperforming compared to a Madness Sorc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkcheng Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Stealth is nice. But I'd rather be able to effectively DPS people up to 30m away than stealth to them. Vanish is on 3 min CD, with any spec but Deception. Hardly worth even talking about as far as WZs go. To me, a Madness Sin is just a retarded Sorcerer. Kinda reminds me of Balance druids in WoW being just retarded mages, back in the day. Same general approach, but far less effective due to numerous shortcomings. Keep in mind, I have barely played Madness on my Sin, so I'm totally talking out of my butt right now. I have however played exclusively Madness on my Sorc. And it clearly works very well for Sorc, and is very clunky for Sins. But hey, I'd love to be proven wrong. Maybe after this patch I'll actually see more than 2-3 people playing Madness. So far, off the top of my head, I've seen 2 vids of Madness Sins, and in both cases the player was vastly outgearing the enemy and underperforming compared to a Madness Sorc. From a PvP only perspective I'd agree with you, a Madness Assn is in a way a gimped Sorc, more squishy too w/o shield and heals. But when a retarded Sorc can complete Heroic dailies w/o ever initiating combat, I'll gladly play a retarded Sorc. Sure would love to get Cloud Mind and the 1min Whirlwind though, but not at the cost of stealth and double-bladed lightsabers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkcheng Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 So, does having both Charge Mastery and Electric Execution mean 27% damage boost to Lightning Charge charges? Would really love to see some math done in regard to whether 3 talent points should be spent on Electric Execution or Duplicity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcjevans Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 does that mean i wasted two points in deception tht lowers coolldown on discharge?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diosz Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 So, does having both Charge Mastery and Electric Execution mean 27% damage boost to Lightning Charge charges? Would really love to see some math done in regard to whether 3 talent points should be spent on Electric Execution or Duplicity? Wondering this as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkcheng Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 does that mean i wasted two points in deception tht lowers coolldown on discharge?? In a Madness spec why would you have that in the first place when the duration is already longer than the cooldown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silcan Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) I respeced madnes, Its fun. lets say 1v1, i go from stealth, open up with death field, then the 30m dot, then discharge folowing by shock, then spam trash till crushing darknes procc. The damage output is kinda high My build is 8/2/31 http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200Mc0cZ0MZcMfRrMkrfz.1 Try it, fun for a change. Edited February 7, 2012 by Silcan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GekoKujo Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) First of all if you are not playing a Madness sin then stopped posting, you sound ridiculous and lose credibility that you are even playing this game effectively. You know who you are. Secondly I play a Madness Sin and I gleefully take down Sorcs and there equivalents with ease, far easier now with the apparent buffs to the Madness tree. PVP as a Sin is great and you do not need to be any particular class to be effective, just good at playing your class. Anyone that tells you otherwise is not very good. "Those who know don't speak, those who speak don't know." This is painfully obvious on these forums. Even taking stealth out of the equation it is not hard to close in fast on a sorc/counselor if you know what you are doing. The changes to the sin class are excellent and still being tested. So far though, they are steps in the right direction. Madness just became a whole lot better. I cannot speak of the Deception tree as I do not play much in it. I will say though depending on how you play Duplicity is a better choice then Electric execution provided you make the most of it. Edited February 7, 2012 by GekoKujo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowerydro Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I respeced madnes, Its fun. lets say 1v1, i go from stealth, open up with death field, then the 30m dot, then discharge folowing by shock, then spam trash till crushing darknes procc. The damage output is kinda high My build is 8/2/31 http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200Mc0cZ0MZcMfRrMkrfz.1 Try it, fun for a change. Have you tried out deception/darkness dps in the past? How do they compare? Running a dps build for guild hard mode runs and I HATE deception. No utility, no survivability, no ranged abilities.... the damage is there IF you crit with 3-4k shocks, 3-4k discharges and pretty good mauls. The issue is it is force starved, even with blackout and force shroud about 30 seconds into a fight there is some real downtime (as I watch sorcs and mercs spam big hits). I guess the issues I would be concerned about with Madness is force point issues and raw damage output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNorik Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Stealth is nice. But I'd rather be able to effectively DPS people up to 30m away than stealth to them. Vanish is on 3 min CD, with any spec but Deception. Hardly worth even talking about as far as WZs go. To me, a Madness Sin is just a retarded Sorcerer. Kinda reminds me of Balance druids in WoW being just retarded mages, back in the day. Same general approach, but far less effective due to numerous shortcomings. Keep in mind, I have barely played Madness on my Sin, so I'm totally talking out of my butt right now. I have however played exclusively Madness on my Sorc. And it clearly works very well for Sorc, and is very clunky for Sins. But hey, I'd love to be proven wrong. Maybe after this patch I'll actually see more than 2-3 people playing Madness. So far, off the top of my head, I've seen 2 vids of Madness Sins, and in both cases the player was vastly outgearing the enemy and underperforming compared to a Madness Sorc. Ok, you don't like to melee, I'm confused. Cuz a madness sin is the same as a madness sorc really. Our attacks do the same amount of damage, you have to keep people away, we have to stay near people. You have a bubble, we have force shroud, deflection. And I think we now self heal more because the sorcerers Devour is still only a 20% increase to parasitism. So please go back to sorcs forums where you can talk about things you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkcheng Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I cannot speak of the Deception tree as I do not play much in it. I will say though depending on how you play Duplicity is a better choice then Electric execution provided you make the most of it. That's really the issue at hand though, is it worth making the most of when Thrash has 15% crit chance increase with 4-piece PvE set bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNorik Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 That's really the issue at hand though, is it worth making the most of when Thrash has 15% crit chance increase with 4-piece PvE set bonus. I ended up going 7/3/31 with 1 point in duplicity. pretty much procs just enough really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrifedRevan Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 What bothers me with Madness is that you are essentially a truncated Sorcerer with it. Shorter range, no bubble. I don't really see the appeal. I top dps in every warzone in this spec, I'm use to madness because its what I played on my way to level 50 and for a couple weeks in PVP, this new increase in abilities is awesome, so many attacks and a spammable dot, so many attacks iwth force powers procing Exploit weakness alot, so maul crits for 3-5k often, thrash also hits pretty hard, going 550k in huttball, I've easily gone 650k in voidstar, going for 700k http://imageshack.us/f/40/550s.png/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkcheng Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I ended up going 7/3/31 with 1 point in duplicity. pretty much procs just enough really. 2 pts in Dark Embrace? I honestly would not invest the 2 pts for that, just don't feel like it's worth it w/o Darkswell. Outside of opening, you're looking at Blackout every minute without using Force Cloak vs every 3 minutes using Force Cloak. I'd also very much like to not lose Lightning Recovery, the utility it provides isn't directly dps related, but it really helps with surviving fights and getting to farther targets much faster. So for me the decision is coming down to Duplicity vs Electric Execution, and to make that decision need to know if Maul > Thrash with +15% crit and by how much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabtangs Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) 2 pts in Dark Embrace? I honestly would not invest the 2 pts for that, just don't feel like it's worth it w/o Darkswell. Outside of opening, you're looking at Blackout every minute without using Force Cloak vs every 3 minutes using Force Cloak. I'd also very much like to not lose Lightning Recovery, the utility it provides isn't directly dps related, but it really helps with surviving fights and getting to farther targets much faster. So for me the decision is coming down to Duplicity vs Electric Execution, and to make that decision need to know if Maul > Thrash with +15% crit and by how much. That's why I am thinking of changing to 9/1/31... Having maul is still useful and I can give up 3% from lightning charge for that. Plus, I'm kinda lazy to do all that min-maxing after a certain level. (3% vs maul?) Edit: And people seem to forget that force shroud REALLY helps out in SOA, cuz we can ram into lightning ball and take 0 damage (which leads to less pressure on healers). Really, this was the first moment I felt proud playing a sin lol. (and probably the last) Edited February 7, 2012 by Jabtangs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koskilicious Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 No cooldown on Discharge! Now you can death field, discharge, tab, discharge. Plus lightning charge got like a 18% damage increase. And devour now means 2% health whenever DOTs crit and from each target of death field. Nice buff for madness sins. Can you guys post a link to this? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 On the subject of Force Shroud, remember that just like Backstab can be resisted, attacks like Grahj's pounce or Bonetrasher's swipe can be resisted as well because they're not melee attacks. Missile barrage from Annilhator Droid, ironically, cannot be resisted but can be deflected by Saber Ward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabtangs Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Can you guys post a link to this? Thanks. care to just look up yourself?.. http://knotor.com/skills#Ag4AAALa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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