100% user impacting maintenance?

[toffeecreme]

.

 

Customer is a person that is consuming the product.

 

Well to be correct, a customer is some pays for services, a consumer is someone who uses the product.

[TylerDurd]

The problem is you AGRRED to the down time. You know that thing you just clicked accept without reading it? ya well guess what

 

 

 

http://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/termsofservice

 

Now if it does get excessive bio may give up free time like wow and funcom and other have done. But they are not obligated to. If you don't like it you vote with you dollars and leave.

 

I have been doing MMO's for a long time this is part of the deal when you sign on. You can compare it to any other game but it does not make a deference this is how they are going to do it and that's it. And if you do the math. You are due back .02 cents per hour of play. is it really worth it to make a fuss over .08 cents? if you do i sorry but you need to find a hobby i usually play star trek during down time its not bad

 

 

REALLY .08 CENTS 8 MY GOD YOU ARE A CHEAP

How did you get at 0.08 cent each downtime?

 

I like this game, and in fact I've created my second lvl50 char. I would like to stay, but I won't. Because I know that EA won't listen to these threads about separate down-times in the US and EU, and the downtime is driving me crazy.

 

And here's the correct math (in my opinion):

24h - (8h sleep) - (8h work) = 8h playtime a day

8h * 30d = 240h playtime a month

And if they stick to the schedule (which they don't) that would mean 24h playtime (a month) is unplayable for EU ppl. Thus the downtime is 10%... That's $2 a month. (or 50c each downtime, not 0.08)

In a year that makes for $24, which means I will pay for more than a month downtime (if I were to play for a year).

 

Call me cheap, but in my opinion that means we should get a month free play.

[Ghengis]

Idm the QQing, since it means that ppl wish they could play *right now*

My kids are also impatient and want things NOW!

 

Take it as a positive thing - they like the game

 

Actually theres a lot to dislike the game so I want to get through as much content before unsubbing as possible, if ti then improves i might resub. But at the moment theres barely two months worth of playability and ive not even been fiending out playing 24/7 like my guildees.

[Shaz]

actually if you look back you will see that the did adjust the weekly time a bit

 

Not so much. Dec. 19 (first downtime) was to launch game- 6pm. Dec. 22 (end of grace period) 2am. The next one, Dec. 27, was 4am. Every one since then, even the Saturday morning downtime- were at 2am. I wouldn't say there was any adjusting at all.

 

Yes, this is a bad time for me, and a bunch of others. Yes, the group I'm a part of might be the ones that are just going to get shafted, period, end of discussion, because our primetime is the time of lowest population. I just would really like to see a 'yes, our data still shows this is the lowest point of population', as kind of a salve against the sting of having the game down during my primetime. (As well as having my question re: Oceania servers answered, because that's even more important to me.)

[Urdnaxela]

But here is the problem they would have to raise the sub prices at least 2x. They would lose money have the game down at all time of the day to make a minority happy.

 

Majority of users want 2 downtimes. One of NA and another for EU. And all they would be required is to not let people change Regions on downtime day. That ways will not get patch conflicts.

 

the bold part - care to explain? how come?

[Urdnaxela]

1. Why is it that the maintenance and all the other downtime period happen during European mid-day (which is a long way from off-peak hours)? Each week, each end of the month the European players have to "suck it up" and stay cool about the fact that even though they pay more for a service, they receive less than the Americans.

 

2. Has any Bioware employee ever heard of Time Zones?

 

3. Do you realize that most of Europe are GMT+1 and GMT+2, and not GMT?

 

4. I do realize that it's really trendy to say: "well, just get out for a couple of hours" but most European players would really like to just sleep while you "maintenance" the servers (and the forums of course - what a shocker) or put an "emergency - fix some fonts" patch, just like the American players do. So where is this discriminatory and offensive behavior towards your European customers come from?

 

5. Why are the forums shut down each time there's some scheduled (or not) downtime?

 

6. Where is the fabled "highest Quality of Service" you promised, advertised and marketed?

 

7. How does this "highest Quality of Service" that you so much strive for gets achieved when:

a) the European servers are in the worst possible location in Europe (bar Iceland maybe) from a Quality of Service point of view

b) the European players, while paying substantially more for this service, receive less then their American counterparts.

c) the Bioware employees, even the British one(s), seem to fall into the, obviously mistaken perception, of American ignorance and stupidity by not realizing that saying "the downtime will happen in the early hours of..." when the service/product is sold all over the world (note: all over the world != Bioware's definition of worldwide).

 

8. What does the "highest Quality of Service" translated into for the Russian players, who were from the start giving the lowest service (by refusing them the CE edition, by choosing the location of servers in Ireland etc.) since every maintenance and any other downtime cuts right into their peak time (Russia is mostly GMT+3, GMT+4)?

 

9. How come you say that the current maintenance schedule is affecting the least number of people when this schedule is present since the start of the game and allegedly that was the time you base your "statistics" on?

 

It's just like me saying that people sleep in every day based on the number of people that do sleep in during the weekend.

 

So, has any Bioware employee ever heard of statistics? How can you claim to have an accurate number based on which you set the painful maintenance schedule since your statistics were made over a short time span (less than a month), during holiday season (not representative for a whole year), during Early Access (not covering all players) and so on and so forth?

 

10. Why is it that hard to split the maintenance?

 

The servers are already split up (American servers in US, European servers in Ireland (sigh)), you already have the infrastructure to support at least two types of clients (the Live and PTR clients) and one more thing: the team charged with the maintenance has to work extra hours (because they do it during the US night time).

 

Having another European team doing the maintenance for US servers (when it's daytime in Europe, night time in US) and the US team doing the maintenance for European servers (during daytime in US, night time in Europe) would be quite a solution, since now you have to pay extra (unless of course you're breaking the laws) to keep those people at the office during the US night time.

[Pandaclysm]

There never is a RIGHT time to do it. Someone will always complain.

 

The right time is when NA and Europe don't share the same schedule. The right time is when each continent shuts down it's servers when statistically the fewest amount of people are on.

[Pandaclysm]

This will probably be posted every time west coast servers are taken down during prime time usage. If this game wants a serious player base then it needs to be made available for the serious players on their schedule and not on BW-time.

 

Current arguments against this are:

1. My kids don't play at these hours so they are fine.

-Sure, I'm also inclined to believe they don't play at 8am either.

2. Bioware only has one set of developers and admin that do the maintenance.

- If other companies are able to spend a bit more for a Euro team and a NA team then I'm sure there is money somewhere in BW's bank account.

3. The people that need the later hours of gameplay are the guilds and hardcore pvp'ers.

-The best way to get a game popular is to enable the community. The streamers, guilds, and fanatics most likely play at midnight.

4. The main demographic of players this game is aimed at are not in high school and do not need servers to be made available at 8am. This time could be 10am-noon. This is when most gaming activity starts.

 

If I am wrong then please correct me. If you think changes should be made please post and talk about it on the swtor forums. If you want to just flame this post and think all is right in the world then you are most welcome to because the internet is an open forum.

[Stelakh]

Give it time man... all mmorpg's have loads of patches and downtimes at their start... it will settle down...

 

One thing though "Paying costumers" ??

 

Isn't that what a costumer is ? Someone who pays for a something or some service ?

 

We know... you play the game, you pay... I think BW actualy does know that already

 

I remember seeing "Give it time" all over another MMO's forum. Which one was that?

 

Oh yeah, Star Trek Online, which was purchased by famed MMO cancer Perfect World Entertainment and went F2P/Pay-to-Win before it was 2 years old.

 

Yep. "Give it time." Make the mistake of not letting BioWare know NOW that the game is unacceptable so PWE can buy THEM, too.

 

That kind of complacency baffles me. It smacks of the kind of mind that thinks hiding one's head in the sand during a nuclear attack and believing fairies will keep the radiation from coming down on you will actually work.

 

Oh and, funnily enough, STO had the same kind of "scheduled maintenance" and had all the same complaints.

 

Patterns are fun to watch.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Stelakh

[Oneirophrenia]

The problem is you AGRRED to the down time. You know that thing you just clicked accept without reading it? ya well guess what

 

Psst. The EULA is not the end all, be all legally binding contract. That is a stone cold fact with no room for disagreement. The enforceability of EULA varies from court to court, case to case, as past litigation history has already shown. Agreeing to a piece of documentation that may or may not be legally enforceable means nothing in the grand scheme of things. It is little more than an attempt by companies to absolve themselves of some potential legal entanglements.

[Xerda]

The right time is when NA and Europe don't share the same schedule. The right time is when each continent shuts down it's servers when statistically the fewest amount of people are on.

 

Well said. We should all get equal treatment. Not preferential treatment for one time zone over another. It's not like they didn't launch the game in these different timezones.

[Oneirophrenia]

I work from 3pm to 11:30pm, on days where overtime is not mandatory. I hope the downtime is moved to 5 or 7 am some day, just like WoW does.

 

I feel ya. This current maintenance schedule is so far detached from reality, it is beyond sad that some people can actually defend it.

 

As an addendum to my original post, I also forgot to mention one of the fastest hiring industries in the country, nursing or even elderly care. Good luck trying to find nurses that work your standard 9-5 schedule. There's also those who work in the retail or services industries. What time do restaurant and mall workers normally get off? What time do call center representatives or service technicians get off? The list goes on and on and involves millions upon millions of workers.

 

People who *still* think that the current maintenance is perfectly fine seriously needs their head examined. In fact, PM me, I have a few head doc friends that are taking new patients. Discounts might even be available.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Oneirophrenia

[AJediKnight]

I gotta prop up the OP. Currently my concerns are twofold:

 

A) Multiple weekly maintenance nights -- why? I'm so tired of the game going offline 2-3 times a week. If there are minor bugs that need to be fixed, take the servers down for a half hour, or sixty minutes at the most -- or wait for the weekly window. If there are major bugs, why did they make it live in the first place? Do you people not have internal testing?

 

B) The downtimes are just infuriating for west coast players. 3 am might not be primetime on the East Coast, but midnight is definitely a prime playing hour for most west coast MMOers. The downtime window is simply stupid in this respect.

 

Frankly, I'm tired of this 'one size fits all' garbage. EU and NA servers should have different downtime windows, and U.S. maint should begin at 6-7 a.m. once a week. Schedule a similar window for London time.

[Romiz]

How did you get at 0.08 cent each downtime?

 

I like this game, and in fact I've created my second lvl50 char. I would like to stay, but I won't. Because I know that EA won't listen to these threads about separate down-times in the US and EU, and the downtime is driving me crazy.

 

And here's the correct math (in my opinion):

24h - (8h sleep) - (8h work) = 8h playtime a day

8h * 30d = 240h playtime a month

And if they stick to the schedule (which they don't) that would mean 24h playtime (a month) is unplayable for EU ppl. Thus the downtime is 10%... That's $2 a month. (or 50c each downtime, not 0.08)

In a year that makes for $24, which means I will pay for more than a month downtime (if I were to play for a year).

 

Call me cheap, but in my opinion that means we should get a month free play.

 

You twisted facts to get false numbers. MMO companies are bond to a 24 hour day not 8.

 

That is totally wrong way to get downtime. It is based on total hours per month which is 720. Weekly downtime is 4 to 6 hours.. So lets go high side. That is 24 hours which based on the highest sub price $14.95 USD is 2 cents per hour. So total downtime would be ONLY 50 cents a month. The downtime is percent is only 3.33% not 10%.

 

However that downtime is already figured in the price. We are at best pay for 696 to 600 hours per month. That is still only 2.2 cents to 2.4 cents per hour. In the start of MMOs we payed $6 per hour so 2.2 cents is a BIG NOTHING.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Romiz

[TylerDurd]

You twisted facts to get false numbers. MMO companies are bond to a 24 hour day not 8.

 

That is totally wrong way to get downtime. It is based on total hours per month which is 720. Weekly downtime is 4 to 6 hours.. So lets go high side. That is 24 hours which based on the highest sub price $14.95 USD is 2 cents per hour. So total downtime would be ONLY 50 cents a month. The downtime is percent is only 3.33% not 10%.

 

However that downtime is already figured in the price. We are at best pay for 696 to 600 hours per month. That is still only 2.2 cents to 2.4 cents per hour. In the start of MMOs we payed $6 per hour so 2.2 cents is a BIG NOTHING.

 

So you're saying we're supposed to play 600 hours a month?

I say that is impossible!

So let me again underline the I, and only I, can play for a maximum of 150 hours a month.

This means that I pay $20 for 6 days and 6 hours continues play.

This again means that when they constantly are taking down servers in prime playing time, that playable time for me is cut down by 24 hours (which is about 16% downtime in my playtime).

That is my point! In my world, and in many Europeans situations, we're paying good money to sit and wait!

 

Your numbers are based on totally wrong assumptions; that we are playing 24 hours a day! Do you think the guys at SWTOR was taking that into account when they spec'ed the servers? That all players would be playing 24/7? Not a chance.

[apnixx]

So what do you want? a game that gets new content, updates, bug fix's or do you wanna play this game exactly how it is right now forever?

 

because those are your options, I'm so sick of these posts, no matter when downtimes are someones gonna be left without the ability to play, suck it up buttercup.

 

On days there is downtime I generally loose some of my playtime due to my hours, but thats par for the course when you work odd hours and play MMO's. if thats too much for you dont let the door hit you on the way out.

[TylerDurd]

So what do you want? a game that gets new content, updates, bug fix's or do you wanna play this game exactly how it is right now forever?

 

because those are your options, I'm so sick of these posts, no matter when downtimes are someones gonna be left without the ability to play, suck it up buttercup.

 

On days there is downtime I generally loose some of my playtime due to my hours, but thats par for the course when you work odd hours and play MMO's. if thats too much for you dont let the door hit you on the way out.

 

So why even bother commenting on this? If you are happy with the way things are, then you'll probably be happy with the way things will be, if we manage to get through to Bioware? We just want them to either cut down the maintenance time, or move it to daytime in the US, since they seem to have no problem with it. Especially since we in Europe pay more than those in the US.

 

I want them to update content and fix patches, but are they testing the server patches by installing them on live servers? Don't they have test servers for that? 4-6 hours, and I've seen more than that too, they could walk to the nearest store, buy a new server, walk home, install any OS, and even install SWTOR in that time. And to do this two times a week, as it's been a few times, is just insane. They knew they would be adding stuff, they knew there would be bugs, so why not prolong the beta? Spend some extra time streamlining the patch system?

[Stelakh]

So what do you want? a game that gets new content, updates, bug fix's or do you wanna play this game exactly how it is right now forever?

 

Well, what I would want, if this was the World According to Stelakh, would be for EA/BioWare to take the game down, give it to a developer that's had experience in the MMO genre, and refund everyone. (This, of course, will never happen.)

 

Then let the new company develop the game from scratch and release SWTOR when it's ready - and not early just to get the Christmas cash.

 

Because not only do I not want to play this game "exactly how it is right now forever," I don't want to play this game at all. It's simply not ready and, I believe, as long as it's in the hands of developers who were not ready to produce an MMO at all - let alone an MMO based on such a large IP - it never will be.

[JerokTalram]

That wont happen until we get seperate maintenance windows for US/EU/Oceanic. As it is, maintenance starts at 9 in the morning over the most of europe. And then up to 4-5 in the afternoon, and extended maintenance even further.

 

9 to 4-5 in the afternoon. BS. Most Maintenance Windows are scheduled for 4 hours and complete early so that would be before 1 in the afternoon. I don't believe they've ever had a 7-8 hour downtime let alone an extended one beyond that. Stop making stuff up.

[Sudoer]

Thanks for those who supported my gripes and I appreciate the opinions of those who didn't.

 

 

Oh look ... another patch (3 within the last 5 days) and again I cannot play. Love patches (you guys should fix your game) but just move the maintenance window please!

[LordHazanko]

Might as well make it so we can only access the game on Monday/Wednesday/Sunday since all the other days seem to be reserved for maintenance.

[hegyitaho]

the most stupid thing about this is that both US and EU have maintenance at the same time which makes it for US too early and EU too late. at least i wanted to play a few hours before I go irl but servers down again. In over a month I'm like over 1-2 days played lost because of poor maintenance time. It should always start from 2-3AM.

[Urdnaxela]

the most stupid thing about this is that both US and EU have maintenance at the same time which makes it for US too early and EU too late. at least i wanted to play a few hours before I go irl but servers down again. In over a month I'm like over 1-2 days played lost because of poor maintenance time. It should always start from 2-3AM.

 

indeed.

 

taking the game down at midnight is infuriating for the west coast americans just as is for europeans - the game goes down in the morning 'till the evening...

[Volsong]

I agree 100% with OP. I normally play during times when server maintenance is going. I even play on a West Coast server (I am in the East Coast) just to be able to play longer without interruption! It was bad enough knowing every monday-tuesday I won't be able to continue working on my character and now it's bi-weekly. This is ridiculous!

 

I understand wanting to fix bugs so others can enjoy as well but there are also those of us who cannot get anywhere in this game due to maintenance windows. Every time I finally get to continue, I have to pick up where I left off, re-manage all my characters and figure out where I was going.

 

I think in order to ease the pain of all the maintenance downtime, one or two things can be done at the VERY least to keep people happy.

 

1) Award additional game time for the amount of maintenance downtime. This is a no brainer! Of course people will argue that maintenance is necessary and expected but what good is subscribing to a game you can't even enjoy?

 

2) PROVIDE SOME SORT OF OFFLINE MODE! Before people flip the hell out, I'm referring to something that doesn't require server access such as a minigame. We could easily play space combat missions offline just to keep our chops up and pass the time. Hell, why not even implement a practice/test mode where you can get better acquainted with game mechanics? I'd be cool with this even if we don't get any in-game credit for it!

Edited February 9, 2012 by Volsong

[Shingara]

The OP is semi right, this effects 100% of the playerbase, they are fixing the game for everyone, hip hip horay. Edited February 9, 2012 by Shingara