Sage/Sorc needs a nerf!!

[Emperor_Troll]

No matter what class I play, the opposing team's Sage/Sorc players always dominate. The problem is, they just have too many tools at their disposal. Despite wearing light armor, they're extremely durable because of their bubble. If a fight goes south, they can always pop their in-combat sprint and run away. And with an insta-slow on top of the passive snare on their rocks/lightning, it's impossible to run from one unless you happen to catch them in CC with their CC-breaker on cooldown. And even standing toe-to-toe with them doesn't work, because they have DoTs that allow them to deal fire-and-forget damage, then pillar hump the nearest LoS object while they heal themselves.

 

There's no warzone they don't excel in, and there's no 1v1 fight they can't win. And to top it off, they can still fall back and heal their teammates in group situations if their DPS isn't doing the job.

 

The Sage/Sorc is just good at too many things, and has way too many tools for combat disruption and soft crowd control. This is a constant the holds true in my mind no matter which class I face off against them with.

 

And this doesn't take into account that all of their damage bypasses almost all types of armor and defenses.

 

Let the flame war commence!

 

i'm sorry, you have 0 clue about anything pvp related in this game at all.

[catixie]

Exactly my point, just like the PW:S nerf in wow. Where disc priests and shadow priests were precasting, and thus getting twice the benefit.

 

I think other than that issue the class is very balanced. They're supposed to have mobility and utility.

 

Since we are comparing this to wow, I also want my heals to reduce the debuff then for my heal spec. Since changing the way the bubble works will affect my healer all because of the crying about the hybrid spec.

 

 

 

It's a new game they are still working on balancing issues, ***** going to get nerfed and buffed constantly.

Edited February 6, 2012 by catixie

[Raque]

I don't think what they are doing is important. I think the point is what they can do. The fact that they can pull back on the DPS and out-heal any other non-heal specced AC in the field is a problem.

The problem is that there is no way for certain things to show up in the meters at the end a pvp match. Sorcerers have little armor and no abilities that lower damage BUT they do have a bubble that absorbs damage and it shows up as healing on the meters when damage is done to it. On the other hand other classes actually wear armor and many have defensive cooldowns that lower the damage they take, but neither of those things show up on the meters so it looks like Sorcerers are doing a ton more on the meters when they are not.

[Skeptical]

It's disgusting that people are trying to defend the absurd survivability, damage, CC, and Healing one class can have all at the same time.

 

You are out of your minds if you think you're fooling anyone into thinking that Sorcerers/Sages are balanced.

 

Sorcerers also have an edge because they have no delay to Shock, as opposed to Sages who have a delay to Project. This also affects Shadows/Assassins but whatever.

 

You Sorcerer/Sage defenders are obnoxiously out of touch if you really believe the drivel that you use to defend this stuff. Furthermore, you're in for a rude awakening when the developers wake up and finally do what needs to be done and nerfs the class in some shape form or fashion.

 

Assassins/Shadows just got a pass that is going to nerf their hybrid builds. Sorcerer/Sage nerf to hybrid build is coming. Enjoy your cheap broken mechanics while you can because sooner or later you'll be speccing into one tree and your hybrid builds will be made worthless.

 

One of the developers commented a long time ago that their intention is to have players choose a class and a role, then spec into the tree that is designed to fill that role. They don't want hybrid builds and for good reason.

 

So get all angry and spew your venomous horse hockey at people who are calling out how messed up it is. It really doesn't matter what you say or how you feel about it, it's not going to last forever.

[mandrillagon]

There are so many sorc/sages that a thread like this will be beaten down very quickly. Just roll a sorc/sage to join the OP ranks or deal with the imbalance permanently. Operatives were a minority class so they were able to get nerfed but the larger population of classes obviously have a larger community to BS in threads, troll l2p, and basically campaign to keep their class OP. Edited February 6, 2012 by mandrillagon

[Spootybeaver]

No matter what class I play, the opposing team's Sage/Sorc players always dominate. The problem is, they just have too many tools at their disposal. Despite wearing light armor, they're extremely durable because of their bubble. If a fight goes south, they can always pop their in-combat sprint and run away. And with an insta-slow on top of the passive snare on their rocks/lightning, it's impossible to run from one unless you happen to catch them in CC with their CC-breaker on cooldown. And even standing toe-to-toe with them doesn't work, because they have DoTs that allow them to deal fire-and-forget damage, then pillar hump the nearest LoS object while they heal themselves.

 

There's no warzone they don't excel in, and there's no 1v1 fight they can't win. And to top it off, they can still fall back and heal their teammates in group situations if their DPS isn't doing the job.

 

The Sage/Sorc is just good at too many things, and has way too many tools for combat disruption and soft crowd control. This is a constant the holds true in my mind no matter which class I face off against them with.

 

And this doesn't take into account that all of their damage bypasses almost all types of armor and defenses.

 

Let the flame war commence!

 

For anyone new t this topic, this OP has clearly never played a Sage/Sorc at end game. At level 50 every class can counter them, the only thing you need is skill. L2P, practice makes perfect.

[catixie]

The damage isn't even that great. Overall damage really doesn't mean anything. My boyfriends Sent could get 300k damage at level 30. He must need a nerf too.

 

 

A hybrid sorc can wrack up some good overall damage from the instant aoes but that isn't going to mean anything if players aren't standing right next to each other.

 

If they are specing to get the faster cast time on DI then they are missing out on damage talents and same goes for the root after knock back. I haven't seen a hybrid sorc spec into the root in a long time because it takes talents away from some damage increase and if you are in a 1v1 situation in a WZ you aren't doing it right.

[jblazen]

It's disgusting that people are trying to defend the absurd survivability, damage, CC, and Healing one class can have all at the same time.

 

You are out of your minds if you think you're fooling anyone into thinking that Sorcerers/Sages are balanced.

 

Sorcerers also have an edge because they have no delay to Shock, as opposed to Sages who have a delay to Project. This also affects Shadows/Assassins but whatever.

 

You Sorcerer/Sage defenders are obnoxiously out of touch if you really believe the drivel that you use to defend this stuff. Furthermore, you're in for a rude awakening when the developers wake up and finally do what needs to be done and nerfs the class in some shape form or fashion.

 

Assassins/Shadows just got a pass that is going to nerf their hybrid builds. Sorcerer/Sage nerf to hybrid build is coming. Enjoy your cheap broken mechanics while you can because sooner or later you'll be speccing into one tree and your hybrid builds will be made worthless.

 

One of the developers commented a long time ago that their intention is to have players choose a class and a role, then spec into the tree that is designed to fill that role. They don't want hybrid builds and for good reason.

 

So get all angry and spew your venomous horse hockey at people who are calling out how messed up it is. It really doesn't matter what you say or how you feel about it, it's not going to last forever.

 

You have no idea what you're talking about.

[skarlson]

What will happen if a nerf hits is survivability will go down the toilet or dps will and all the sorcerers will reroll to the next fotm. Then you will start the QQ cycle anew. Sorcerers are fine as is except for their survivability in melee range. That needs to be improved simply because having a sith lord, a dark lord of the sith, able to be beat down by any farmer with a pitch fork in melee range is not true to the lore. They should never have separated the force classes into either melee or casting because that is not consistent with the lore. Putting melee and casting into one class is doable, loremasters from lotro are a good example.

[wwkingms]

It's disgusting that people are trying to defend the absurd survivability, damage, CC, and Healing one class can have all at the same time.

 

You are out of your minds if you think you're fooling anyone into thinking that Sorcerers/Sages are balanced.

 

Sorcerers also have an edge because they have no delay to Shock, as opposed to Sages who have a delay to Project. This also affects Shadows/Assassins but whatever.

 

You Sorcerer/Sage defenders are obnoxiously out of touch if you really believe the drivel that you use to defend this stuff. Furthermore, you're in for a rude awakening when the developers wake up and finally do what needs to be done and nerfs the class in some shape form or fashion.

 

Assassins/Shadows just got a pass that is going to nerf their hybrid builds. Sorcerer/Sage nerf to hybrid build is coming. Enjoy your cheap broken mechanics while you can because sooner or later you'll be speccing into one tree and your hybrid builds will be made worthless.

 

One of the developers commented a long time ago that their intention is to have players choose a class and a role, then spec into the tree that is designed to fill that role. They don't want hybrid builds and for good reason.

 

So get all angry and spew your venomous horse hockey at people who are calling out how messed up it is. It really doesn't matter what you say or how you feel about it, it's not going to last forever.

 

 

 

shock hits like a wet noodle on anyone with gear

 

mercs hav cc BETTER dmg, healing and better survivability

 

so why are we being crucified?

 

i can tell who here pvps alot and who doesnt because anyone who grinded to battlemaster the hard way through warzones knows sorcs are a utility and aoe class.. but any focus ont hem at all without guard and theyre drop in seconds

 

if a sorc/sage is bothering ur wz. then focus them story over

 

ima sorc and you kno who I focus FIRST? other sorcs because they die the FASTEST

Edited February 6, 2012 by wwkingms

[Spootybeaver]

shock hits like a wet noodle on anyone with gear

 

mercs hav cc BETTER dmg, healing and better survivability

 

so why are we being crucified?

 

i can tell who here pvps alot and who doesnt because anyone who grinded to battlemaster the hard way through warzones knows sorcs are a utility and aoe class.. but any focus ont hem at all without guard and theyre drop in seconds

 

if a sorc/sage is bothering ur wz. then focus them story over

 

ima sorc and you kno who I focus FIRST? other sorcs because they die the FASTEST

 

^^ true.

[Skeptical]

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

Oh so this video doesn't illustrate the discrepancies between Project and Shock?

 

And this post doesn't contain patch notes that clearly hamstrings Assassin/Shadow hybrid builds? http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=260938

 

I'm not going internet digging to find that developer quote because it was back in beta.

[Skeptical]

shock hits like a wet noodle on anyone with gear

 

mercs hav cc BETTER dmg, healing and better survivability

 

so why are we being crucified?

 

i can tell who here pvps alot and who doesnt because anyone who grinded to battlemaster the hard way through warzones knows sorcs are a utility and aoe class.. but any focus ont hem at all without guard and theyre drop in seconds

 

if a sorc/sage is bothering ur wz. then focus them story over

 

ima sorc and you kno who I focus FIRST? other sorcs because they die the FASTEST

 

Nice. This guy sees the nerf train coming and he's trying to point the finger at another class. Don't worry. I'm sure they'll see some adjustments as well.

[jblazen]

Oh so this video doesn't illustrate the discrepancies between Project and Shock?

 

And this post doesn't contain patch notes that clearly hamstrings Assassin/Shadow hybrid builds? http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=260938

 

I'm not going internet digging to find that developer quote because it was back in beta.

 

Yes there is clearly an issue with project. It's not sorc's fault, blame the game.

 

Yes they nerfed assassins for some dumb reason, nothing to do with sorc's though.

 

What's your point? I was disagreeing with the guy who was crying about sorc's being OP and giving some very bad examples and referring to 31/31/31 sorc's.

 

Sorc's are fine. Focus us and we die, leave us alone and we'll do decent sustained dmg. Glass cannon is glass. Nothing to see here.

[Sathid]

For anyone new t this topic, this OP has clearly never played a Sage/Sorc at end game. At level 50 every class can counter them, the only thing you need is skill. L2P, practice makes perfect.

 

You should just stop posting.

[TetraCleric]

 

There's no warzone they don't excel in, and there's no 1v1 fight they can't win.

 

You sir, are clueless. Sorc/Sage has literally no hard counter to any class in this game. If you can't beat a Sorc/Sage it's a skill issue, not a class issue.

[jblazen]

Nice. This guy sees the nerf train coming and he's trying to point the finger at another class. Don't worry. I'm sure they'll see some adjustments as well.

 

He speaks the truth. If people would learn how to counter or focus sorc's then things would change dramatically. Also there are a ton of sorc's so the issue is a matter of proportion. Lots of lightning flying around and getting slowed a ton = baddies coming on the forums to QQ.

 

I play with Nihil and he is a decent player. However, there are tactics to shut him down just like every other sorc.

[Slashtwo]

Imo mercs are squishier than Sorcs, they have low mobility, no absorb a weak 3 min heal and a 25% defensive cd on a 2 min cd and NO INTERRUPT.

 

The only thing they have defense-wise that's better is heavy armor.

 

Sorcs have a talent that lowers their electrocute to 50 seconds whereas mercs have electro-dart on a 1min cd.

[L-RANDLE]

Seriously?

 

We sages are the most underpowered class when it comes to PvP. We specialize in trying to beat the odds because quite frankly we have no DPS skills and use those other skills you talk about to be annoying, and that us why drives me to play PvP. If you look at our damage output in a given instance, its laughable. Im lvl 47 and my max output on a 1v1 basis with no stims/adre is about 1k and most of those attacks have CD's in the range of 2-10 sec. Our other tools is to "fend" you off, so our stuff cools down. Yeah I love my no cast time force lift(with 2sec stun), my force stun, because it only exist to slow you down (as both have 90Sec+ CD), not stop you.

 

 

 

Tell me the average DPS stat.... probably double this amount? Anyone disagree? Over a match that adds up to more kills unless you are trapped by multiple peeps...

 

 

Put the nerf bat away son....

[Sathid]

He speaks the truth. If people would learn how to counter or focus sorc's then things would change dramatically. Also there are a ton of sorc's so the issue is a matter of proportion. Lots of lightning flying around and getting slowed a ton = baddies coming on the forums to QQ.

 

I play with Nihil and he is a decent player. However, there are tactics to shut him down just like every other sorc.

 

Hey where have we heard that before? Oh yeah with Operative/Scoundrels but look what happened,,,and wasnt it Sorc's/Inquizys complaining the most? Oh yeah it was ,maybe those classes need to learn how to counter and "L2P" but alittle late now huh?

[Slashtwo]

Seriously?

 

We sages are the most underpowered class when it comes to PvP. Im lvl 47 and...

 

You're 47, you have no say.

[Goatwarlord]

So lame how in huttball one can just wait near the middle, while everyone else is off attacking/assisting the carrier, and pretty much get a free cap when its returned because of their speed boost and damage resist.

[TetraCleric]

Hey where have we heard that before? Oh yeah with Operative/Scoundrels but look what happened,,,and wasnt it Sorc's/Inquizys complaining the most? Oh yeah it was ,maybe those classes need to learn how to counter and "L2P" but alittle late now huh?

 

Any good scoundrel/operative agreed there needed to be a nerf. And those same players still dominate with their class.

[L-RANDLE]

You're 47, you have no say.

 

Why is that?

[Alundo]

So amusing.

 

Hard to find a Sorc who will tell you the truth, most of 'em spouting, "scissors is fine, nerf paper."