Kolto Shell = instant agro?

[Imhotep]

Ok I am curious as anyone else having the issue where you throw Kolto Shell on the tank prior to the pull and get instant healing agro. It seems that the threat from Kolto Shell goes to the healer instead of the shelled tank.

 

I hate to compare but Earth Shield in WoW for instance attributed the healing threat to the shielded tank. (This is not acomparison of the games rather a comparison of one similar mechanic so try not the fire up the flame throwers)

 

 

Any thoughts?

[Yazule]

Ok I am curious as anyone else having the issue where you throw Kolto Shell on the tank prior to the pull and get instant healing agro. It seems that the threat from Kolto Shell goes to the healer instead of the shelled tank.

 

I hate to compare but Earth Shield in WoW for instance attributed the healing threat to the shielded tank. (This is not acomparison of the games rather a comparison of one similar mechanic so try not the fire up the flame throwers)

 

 

Any thoughts?

 

imo nothing done before agro should affect hate

[Angryorc]

Well.. SWTOR has just been born and is in my opinion a beta game we're paying to play and they will just fix bugs and add <insert idea they stole from <<enter MMO that has been released here>> renamed, rephrased, polished into the game here>.

 

Kolto Shell is like an earthshield, (Never played resto shaman) but I doubt they had the healing threat-->target upon the release of Earthshield.

Many things are still fairly primitive compared to other games but SWTOR is basically like any other game in terms of mechanics with a twist.. here voidzones on the ground equals healing and there's like crosshairs on the ground that hurt everywhere

 

Anything that will heal the tank already up before the pull, you will bleed!

[Airees]

Please stop using the "SwToR is new" excuse, it's non-sensical. If they already made and fixed this mistake in WoW (although I can't remember if they actually implemented it wrongly), why does swtor have to repeat the mistake instead of just implementing it correctly right away ? It makes no sense to expect that every MMO should go through the same entire refining process others have instead of learning from others and not repeating mistakes. When they're making new mistakes, sure it's excusable, but repeating old ones should not be accepted.

 

Anyways, yes the fact that kolto shell healing counts as healer healing target instead of target healing themselves is an issue that makes it pretty useless for anything that involves pulling a pack of mobs. It's already been pointed out several times for the last month or so, but there has yet to be any sort of recognition or response to the issue.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Airees

[BlownSi]

I can agree this is a little bit of an issue. The healing threat should go to the shielded person not me. I had a hard time with it on Corellia when I switched back to BG spec for the last two levels. I used Torian instead of Blizz because of his dps output when he is geared up. I was able to burn through mobs and groups as fast as Arsenal spec.

 

I don't expect for a non-tank comp to hold aggro, but I don't expect to have an ability that is pre-combat applied to pull aggro to myself after the fight starts. Me dps'ing or throwing an actual heal should do that.

[Yazule]

I can agree this is a little bit of an issue. The healing threat should go to the shielded person not me. I had a hard time with it on Corellia when I switched back to BG spec for the last two levels. I used Torian instead of Blizz because of his dps output when he is geared up. I was able to burn through mobs and groups as fast as Arsenal spec.

 

I don't expect for a non-tank comp to hold aggro, but I don't expect to have an ability that is pre-combat applied to pull aggro to myself after the fight starts. Me dps'ing or throwing an actual heal should do that.

 

the healing threat should go to the healer, but no threat should be assigned until after agro occurs and no actions before agro should add to hate.

[Airees]

the healing threat should go to the healer, but no threat should be assigned until after agro occurs and no actions before agro should add to hate.

 

That sounds like a way too complicated way of fixing it. Giving the threat to the target doesn't really give any significant threat boost, and will still be over-aggroed by basically any action (even the healer doing a normal heal). What you're suggesting is basically a major revamp of the threat system, while changing who gets the threat is probably just a few variables.

[Imhotep]

Well.. SWTOR has just been born and is in my opinion a beta game we're paying to play and they will just fix bugs and add <insert idea they stole from <<enter MMO that has been released here>> renamed, rephrased, polished into the game here>.

 

Kolto Shell is like an earthshield, (Never played resto shaman) but I doubt they had the healing threat-->target upon the release of Earthshield.

Many things are still fairly primitive compared to other games but SWTOR is basically like any other game in terms of mechanics with a twist.. here voidzones on the ground equals healing and there's like crosshairs on the ground that hurt everywhere

 

Anything that will heal the tank already up before the pull, you will bleed!

 

 

 

Actually Earth Shield had always placed the threat on the shielded target. Thats what made that particular spell so nice but thats neither here nor there.

 

Thanks for the responses I was just curious about it. The search function is so hit or miss on these forums I didnt realize this had already been discussed.

[_droider_]

Kolto Shell should just be hate-free per-combat.

 

Edit: the action itself should create hate but only inside combat. The healing from it should be hate-free no matter what. Make the action have a hate value equal to the non-crit potential healing from the 10 shells.

Edited February 7, 2012 by _droider_
Clarification

[DomingoDarkrage]

we got heavy armor, energy shield and instant self heal. Also we have a detaunt against all mobs. You have 2 options:

1: Put kolto shield on the tank, and just be ready to pop any defensive cooldowns. Some are instant cast w/o global cooldown, so it isn't a big deal. We wear heavy armor for a reason, get some dents.

2: Wait 2 seconds upon attack to cast kolto shield, which does have a global cooldown, making your first heal rather late to the fight. Or maybe apply kolto after the first heal.

 

Personally, i have no problem with keeping kolto shield on the tank pre-fight. If it is a big encounter with lots of mobs that cannot be CC'ed, I'll remove it. Or if the tank cannot establish aggro fast enough, I'll remove. On boss fights, if there is only a single boss, tank will have aggro faster than I'll steal it.

 

You can always LOS enemies, or walk right next to the tank for kolto missile to be useful.

 

There is no reason to make Kolto Shield have no aggro. It is our healing, we should be gaining aggro. Making it without aggro is as ridiculous as making a sniper's ambush cause no aggro at all.

[_droider_]

I was saying to apply the aggro of the healing to the cast of the spell itself...to alleviate the initial pre-fight issue with it. Though it would make you have to be well aware of the charges so you're not refreshing it @4+ to cause unnecessary aggro. Eh...was just a thought.

[Airees]

we got heavy armor, energy shield and instant self heal. Also we have a detaunt against all mobs. You have 2 options:

1: Put kolto shield on the tank, and just be ready to pop any defensive cooldowns. Some are instant cast w/o global cooldown, so it isn't a big deal. We wear heavy armor for a reason, get some dents.

2: Wait 2 seconds upon attack to cast kolto shield, which does have a global cooldown, making your first heal rather late to the fight. Or maybe apply kolto after the first heal.

 

Personally, i have no problem with keeping kolto shield on the tank pre-fight. If it is a big encounter with lots of mobs that cannot be CC'ed, I'll remove it. Or if the tank cannot establish aggro fast enough, I'll remove. On boss fights, if there is only a single boss, tank will have aggro faster than I'll steal it.

 

You can always LOS enemies, or walk right next to the tank for kolto missile to be useful.

 

There is no reason to make Kolto Shield have no aggro. It is our healing, we should be gaining aggro. Making it without aggro is as ridiculous as making a sniper's ambush cause no aggro at all.

 

Noone's said it's impossible to deal with the current implementation. But does that make it a good implementation ? Do you really think it's good gameplay cleansing kolto shell off the tank (by casting it on someone else) between every pull in a hardmode flashpoint ?

 

While it might be possible to just rely on surviving through the initial burst for every pull it's highly in-efficient. And considering how frontloaded the damage is for almost every pull in this game you either run the risk of tank getting bursted down quickly if casted too early, or the shell not really being worth the cast if casted too late.

[Imhotep]

we got heavy armor, energy shield and instant self heal. Also we have a detaunt against all mobs. You have 2 options:

1: Put kolto shield on the tank, and just be ready to pop any defensive cooldowns. Some are instant cast w/o global cooldown, so it isn't a big deal. We wear heavy armor for a reason, get some dents.

2: Wait 2 seconds upon attack to cast kolto shield, which does have a global cooldown, making your first heal rather late to the fight. Or maybe apply kolto after the first heal.

 

Personally, i have no problem with keeping kolto shield on the tank pre-fight. If it is a big encounter with lots of mobs that cannot be CC'ed, I'll remove it. Or if the tank cannot establish aggro fast enough, I'll remove. On boss fights, if there is only a single boss, tank will have aggro faster than I'll steal it.

 

You can always LOS enemies, or walk right next to the tank for kolto missile to be useful.

 

There is no reason to make Kolto Shield have no aggro. It is our healing, we should be gaining aggro. Making it without aggro is as ridiculous as making a sniper's ambush cause no aggro at all.

 

I think you are misunderstanding the intent of my post. Im not asking how to deal with it. I know how to deal with agro Ive been healing in MMOs for a very long time. I wanted to discuss the threat mechanic of the ability. Nothing more.

[Kyleface]

Noone's said it's impossible to deal with the current implementation. But does that make it a good implementation ? Do you really think it's good gameplay cleansing kolto shell off the tank (by casting it on someone else) between every pull in a hardmode flashpoint ?

 

While it might be possible to just rely on surviving through the initial burst for every pull it's highly in-efficient. And considering how frontloaded the damage is for almost every pull in this game you either run the risk of tank getting bursted down quickly if casted too early, or the shell not really being worth the cast if casted too late.

 

No I don't think that's good gameplay, I think it's silly and you are wasting your time. Are people REALLY have that big of an issue getting too much agro off a Shell proc on the pull? What are your tanks doing? Focusing on one mob and letting the rest beat on you?

 

Tanks should be picking up Strong/Elites and DPS should be blowing up Weaks/Standards. Healers shouldn't be taking too much damage for too long, if you are that means the rest of your group is failing.