No one will remember if a game is late, only if it's great.

[BrandonSM]

Stop posting lies.

 

It's 54% letehargic...

 

No its not. Its 50%

 

Edited February 6, 2012 by BrandonSM

[Marlaine]

LOL.

 

You weren't even on the dev staff, you have no idea of the finances, you probably can't even build a project plan and YOU have the audacity to make the general assumption they wasted all the resources on voice acting??

 

As if resources spent in area one had a definitive affect on area two. You have no idea how their finance model worked. You have on idea how they split the dev teams.

 

Really?

 

REALLY?

 

Oh...wow...

 

You and the rest of the armchair developers and analysts can leave the conversation because you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

You're just shooting from the hip, creating anecdotes and strawmen. Just like the rest of the "why did bioware do X" people.

 

U mad bro?

 

The fact is that I am making a completely logical conclusion. I've made a POINT of listening to the voice-overs because I want to experience the game. I've found that the voice-overs for "grind quests" become more and more tedious as the game progresses.

 

This doesn't require a degree in developing video games to figure out. It's common fraken sense. People recognize fluff when they see it.

 

However, I do have a MBA, as well as an undergraduate in entrepreneurship. So at the bare minimum I have a basic understanding of how these things work. The reality is that you ALWAYS have a decision to make on how to utilize your scarce resources. To think that wasting dev time on fluff quest voiceovers doesn't affect other areas of the game is the height of ignorance.

 

I don't begrudge your opinion, but you're trying to tell me I'm dumb for applying simple logic? And you have the gall to go after me for "straw-man" arguments? Grow up.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Marlaine

[Saetun]

Thats...great. But I like the voice. So. No.

 

And in case you forgot, daily mission terminals are text only.

 

I just disagree. I want voice over. Its that much better in my opinion. I have never played an MMO where I gave a care about the story. Now I do.

 

You should have tried FFXI when it was new. It's not the same game anymore unfortunately. They had truly epic story lines but never forgot that after the story was over there needed to be a damn good mmo behind it to keep people paying.

[Marlaine]

Number play is fun.

 

Did you know that 99% of 71% of TOR players are 100% HAPPY and 52% lethargic.

 

Also, there is 192 million registered TOR players.

 

Well I'm basing my numbers on Blizzard's own reports of the raiding population. At least my numbers come from a reliable source.

[Ebbikenezer]

U mad bro?

 

The fact is that I am making a completely logical conclusion. I've made a POINT of listening to the voice-overs because I want to experience the game. I've found that the voice-overs for "grind quests" become more and more tedious as the game progresses.

 

This doesn't require a degree in developing video games to figure out. It's common fraken sense. People recognize fluff when they see it.

 

However, I do have a MBA, as well as an undergraduate in entrepreneurship. So at the bare minimum I have a basic understanding of how these things work. The reality is that you ALWAYS have a decision to make on how to utilize your scarce resources. To think that wasting dev time on fluff quest voiceovers doesn't affect other areas of the game is the height of ignorance.

 

I don't begrudge your opinion, but you're trying to tell me I'm dumb for applying simple logic? And you have the gall to go after me for "straw-man" arguments? Grow up.

 

I doubt the former, based on what you said about the latter.

[DarthKong]

Well I'm basing my numbers on Blizzard's own reports of the raiding population. At least my numbers come from a reliable source.

 

The same source that reported one bug at launch?

[pipda]

Its pretty telling that we compare TOR to WOW's launch and not Rift.

 

TOR is so bad it has to be compared to a launch from almost a decade ago. It can't even be compared to a game launched a few months earlier the same year.

[Marmerus]

What he is saying is that Duke Nukem Forever is remembered for being very late and it wasn't great at all.

Probably because 3D Realms did not release it but Gearbox did. So the game did not take long to release as it was never released at all. We just got a rushed crap game from Gearbox.

[Strayjack]

I think it's funny how people think a game's launch has anything to do with the success of its future. You can release a total pos and polish it over time. Bottom line is that if it becomes the best mmo on the market in 1 year, people will be playing it regardless of how it performed at launch.

 

This is shown in pretty much everything we use/buy today. You can whine, you can cry, but in the end if there is nothing better, you will be using it.

 

Or others will make better games that are polished, better dynamics, better storyline, better at just about everything. Great for SWTOR releasing a bug ridden game, mediocre graphics and game play. At least now the next company willing to put out a game will look at SWTOR and say, the hell with it, we will have an awesome game with very little bugs come release. I don't care how long it takes as long as the developers are finding out ways to fix their game before release.

 

I can actually respect a company who will listen to their base and make adjustments before it becomes retail. Once you release it, it will be difficult for any damage control. Patches will be most definitely welcomed but you already ruined your reputation.

[DarthRik]

U mad bro?

 

The fact is that I am making a completely logical conclusion. I've made a POINT of listening to the voice-overs because I want to experience the game. I've found that the voice-overs for "grind quests" become more and more tedious as the game progresses.

 

This doesn't require a degree in developing video games to figure out. It's common fraken sense. People recognize fluff when they see it.

 

However, I do have a MBA, as well as an undergraduate in entrepreneurship. So at the bare minimum I have a basic understanding of how these things work. The reality is that you ALWAYS have a decision to make on how to utilize your scarce resources. To think that wasting dev time on fluff quest voiceovers doesn't affect other areas of the game is the height of ignorance.

 

I don't begrudge your opinion, but you're trying to tell me I'm dumb for applying simple logic? And you have the gall to go after me for "straw-man" arguments? Grow up.

 

then going by your sence, when i played Kotor 1/2 they might as well have just put me to the end of the game and showed me the cut seen

 

im so happy that i will never have to go back to a game with a wall of text that i will never read so i can just scroll down to the accept button and run off to do the quest/mission.

 

BW have now made a new mmo standered for lvling, i bet that blizzard are right now stripping this out to be added to titan, you know titan that god of mmos that only has a name, yet will be the greatest thing since sliced bread.........

[DarthRik]

Well I'm basing my numbers on Blizzard's own reports of the raiding population. At least my numbers come from a reliable source.

 

and Blizzard tell the truth to there players?????

[Blackardin]

The loss of customers has more to do with the failed raiding concept than their ability to put out a good game. When will devs realize that raiding is dead? Most players have absolutely zero interest in raiding. So, if you base your entire end-game on raiding, people are eventually going to wise up and leave the game that screws over 85% of the population.

 

 

1. Raiding is in integral part of the MMORPG experience. Failing that is failing the game.

 

2. Please varify your data resulting in the statement that "most players have zero interest in raiding". I have a guild full of those that can't wait to raid.

 

3. Please validate your claim that this game "screws over 85% of the population.

 

The problem that I have with your posts, and most of these negative posts is that first, the poster has very little understanding of the difference between a generic MMO, and an MMORPG. They seek an MMO "shooter", do not study up on the game, then find themselves frustrated when they realize they are in a very different type of game.

 

The other problem I have with this type of post is the constant pulling of facts out of the air and the assumption that more then a minute percentage of people follow either the logic, reasoning, or assumptions made by the poster. Most of it is little more then hyperbole and conjecture with little evidence of determination, let alone proof.

 

I guess what I am trying to say here is ****. ;p

[Dantragk]

You should have tried FFXI when it was new. It's not the same game anymore unfortunately. They had truly epic story lines but never forgot that after the story was over there needed to be a damn good mmo behind it to keep people paying.

 

Original COP was soooooooooooo *********** hard too. So many good times in XI. Story was more epic than TORs will ever be.

[Blackardin]

Its pretty telling that we compare TOR to WOW's launch and not Rift.

 

TOR is so bad it has to be compared to a launch from almost a decade ago. It can't even be compared to a game launched a few months earlier the same year.

 

Did em both. Did early entry on both. This was slightly smoother then Rift. Rift has about the same type of problems, the same complainers and condemners on the boards. Same complaints about lack of end game for those that rushed to max level in the first week.

 

I would say that they both did a pretty good job at release.

[Marlaine]

lol, don't be rediculous.

 

You clearly don't know what you are talking about, and no... it's not a known idea that "wow had smoothest launch ever"

 

If anything, TOR has had the best launch i've ever seen.

 

All right, whatever. I clearly cannot argue with someone who thinks they know everything. I guess the fact that I played wow religiously at launch means nothing. I guess the fact that me and multiple friends played hours upon hours at a time with nary a blip means nothing.

 

Arguing with you is purely a waste of my time because you are DETERMINED to believe wow was horrible at launch, no matter what. Nothing I say will matter to you and the other two wow haters in this thread.

 

All I will end with saying is that wow didn't completely smash the sub numbers of all previous mmos COMBINED within the first week by having a poor buggy launch. Anyone with the slightest thread of intelligence can figure this out.

[Marlaine]

The same source that reported one bug at launch?

 

I didn't say there was one bug you dolt. I was saying that he was saying the game was buggy and having a terrible launch by focusing on one bug.

 

But keep trying to put words in my mouth if that makes you feel better.

[DarthRik]

Its pretty telling that we compare TOR to WOW's launch and not Rift.

 

TOR is so bad it has to be compared to a launch from almost a decade ago. It can't even be compared to a game launched a few months earlier the same year.

 

i would say that my only problem with rift was the endgame, coming from wow (which i went back to) i didnt want to do the same type of endgame, i didnt want to spend 3-4 nights in a raid, what i wanted from rift was to do rifts, once i had done 3 raid rifts which i have to say are rather short and ok the first time. i just left.

 

for me trion balls up by not making rifts a big part of the game, part from been a part of the lvling, which you can just run past and not bother with.

[peaceandpassion]

Duke nukem....nuff said in "MY OPINION"

[DarthRik]

All right, whatever. I clearly cannot argue with someone who thinks they know everything. I guess the fact that I played wow religiously at launch means nothing. I guess the fact that me and multiple friends played hours upon hours at a time with nary a blip means nothing.

 

Arguing with you is purely a waste of my time because you are DETERMINED to believe wow was horrible at launch, no matter what. Nothing I say will matter to you and the other two wow haters in this thread.

 

All I will end with saying is that wow didn't completely smash the sub numbers of all previous mmos COMBINED within the first week by having a poor buggy launch. Anyone with the slightest thread of intelligence can figure this out.

 

they didnt smash all the sub numbers in the first few weeks, it taken wow about a year to 2 years to get the number numbers it had, so your talking BS again

[oursacrifice]

Duke Nukem Forever begs to differ...

 

Failed reading comprehension is funny.

[Wolfeisberg]

All right, whatever. I clearly cannot argue with someone who thinks they know everything. I guess the fact that I played wow religiously at launch means nothing. I guess the fact that me and multiple friends played hours upon hours at a time with nary a blip means nothing.

 

Arguing with you is purely a waste of my time because you are DETERMINED to believe wow was horrible at launch, no matter what. Nothing I say will matter to you and the other two wow haters in this thread.

 

All I will end with saying is that wow didn't completely smash the sub numbers of all previous mmos COMBINED within the first week by having a poor buggy launch. Anyone with the slightest thread of intelligence can figure this out.

 

WoW was the first MMO to cater to a casual player where grouping was not required to level up, and the game was far more forgiving then other MMOs out there. That is the biggest reason why the game became so successful so quick. There was zero competition out there for the casual market, so people either didn't play MMOs at all, or they trudged through the problems while being given free play time while Blizzard ironed out the problems.

 

Your biggest problem is that you are going against the already established consensus that is years old, that WoWs launch was horrible. You scour the internet, and the general consensus is that WoWs launch was horrible. It has become general knowlege that WoWs launch was horrible.

[Marlaine]

1. Raiding is in integral part of the MMORPG experience. Failing that is failing the game.

 

2. Please varify your data resulting in the statement that "most players have zero interest in raiding". I have a guild full of those that can't wait to raid.

 

3. Please validate your claim that this game "screws over 85% of the population.

 

The problem that I have with your posts, and most of these negative posts is that first, the poster has very little understanding of the difference between a generic MMO, and an MMORPG. They seek an MMO "shooter", do not study up on the game, then find themselves frustrated when they realize they are in a very different type of game.

 

The other problem I have with this type of post is the constant pulling of facts out of the air and the assumption that more then a minute percentage of people follow either the logic, reasoning, or assumptions made by the poster. Most of it is little more then hyperbole and conjecture with little evidence of determination, let alone proof.

 

I guess what I am trying to say here is ****. ;p

 

1) Raiding is far from a requirement of a mmo. For example, SWG had no raiding whatsoever. It may be a dead game now but it didn't die because they didn't put raiding into it.

 

2) Your guild is but just the smallest sample of a huge game. The vast majority of people don't raid and everyone with but the slightest bit of intelligence knows it. All you have to do is talk to gamers, and you will quick realize that #1 most of them don't play mmos, and #2 most of them don't play mmos due to forced raiding to progress their characters. As a leader of a help desk I have met 100s of technical professionals who are the core market segment, and the VAST VAST VAST VAST majority of them have no interest whatsoever in raiding. Most of them like mmos but refuse to play them due to raiding.

 

3) Blizzard wrote quite the controversial piece of raiding both during Vanilla and again at cataclysm. I didn't play in between, so perhaps there was other stuff. Both of those pieces, posted on their news page, concluded that most people did not raid. The first one, a bit before the release of BC, is where I get my 15% from. In fact, that 15% was the primary reason they reduced raid sizes from 40 man to 25 man. Even though I wasn't playing during BC I can reasonably assume that the reason they reduced raids from 25-man to 10-man was also due to that number.

 

If you actually believe that the majority of players like raiding, you are living in a bubble. A bubble far outside of reality where people have jobs and responsiblities that they will NOT forsake for a mmo. I don't give a darn what your reasoning is to force raids on people, but the fact is people will up and quit rather than playing your stupid raids.

[Wolfeisberg]

I didn't say there was one bug you dolt. I was saying that he was saying the game was buggy and having a terrible launch by focusing on one bug.

 

But keep trying to put words in my mouth if that makes you feel better.

 

I didn't say just 1 bug either, I said and other myriad of other bugs, someone even mentioned even more, like broken quests that couldn't be completed, and there are lots more that I don't feel like listing off.

[Marlaine]

they didnt smash all the sub numbers in the first few weeks, it taken wow about a year to 2 years to get the number numbers it had, so your talking BS again

 

My god what planet do you live on? WOW broke 2 million subs within the very first week!

[cdstephen]

The game was already late...it was supposed to come out spring of 2011.