No one will remember if a game is late, only if it's great.

[Arkerus]

As with all things in life there is a middle ground. I think the voices and movies are good, but they get very old having to listen to some BS story when all you have to do is kill 10 rats.

 

I think it would have been smarter to have the movies for the main quest storylines, and something along the lines of a mission terminal for grind quests. That would also free up a lot of time and money for other game concepts to enhance the longevity of the game.

 

Thats...great. But I like the voice. So. No.

 

And in case you forgot, daily mission terminals are text only.

 

I just disagree. I want voice over. Its that much better in my opinion. I have never played an MMO where I gave a care about the story. Now I do.

[Marlaine]

Now, Maybe it is more polished, but wait doesnt it have 7-9 years on other MMOs? If its not polished by 7 years you gotta problem. But at release/Launch Day it was absoloutely terrible.

 

 

Don't make stuff up.

 

No, how about you don't make stuff up? There's a reason why people were playing the crap out of wow at release, and that's because it was frakken awesome. Amazingly well polished, fast-paced, and smooth gameplay combat. Those with a brain realized that the inconveniences (queues and loot lag) had nothing to do with polish, and everything to do with demand way over the top of what was expected.

[Marlaine]

Thats...great. But I like the voice. So. No.

 

And in case you forgot, daily mission terminals are text only.

 

I just disagree. I want voice over. Its that much better in my opinion. I have never played an MMO where I gave a care about the story. Now I do.

 

And it's a complete and utter waste of resources. So. No.

 

But you are entirely entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine. However, I have a tough time believing that most people actually like voice-overs for something as simple as a kill 10 rats quest. So for that reason, I don't believe your opinion has much merit.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Marlaine

[Gilbara]

I'm willing to give up both those things in order to not have to read a piece of paper when I talk to an NPC.

 

I'm not completely sure what you mean on the wild life point. I can't remember any that weren't mobs back in WoW or AO.

 

And I think TOR's music is quite nice.

 

download lotro and you'll understand. it's free to play so just create a character and venture into the wild. There are many non-mob animals like rabbits, squirrels, deer, badgers, etc., that wander around the landscape. If you run by them they will either get spooked and run away, likle the rabbits and deer, or get irritated, and chitter at you, like the badgers and such.

 

it adds depth and immersion to the world making it seem alive and vibrant.

[DarthKong]

Most of the issues you speak of are purely in relation to the massive overload of the servers because so many more people wanted to play than they were prepared for. Those issues had NOTHING TO DO WITH POLISH! Your two months gametime? 100% purely due to queues and customer overload.

 

Personally, I only fell through the world once, and most people were not affected by that bug, although I do admit it existed. But any game that big is going to have at least some bugs. But if you're going to call a game buggy and unpolished due to one bug, then that's your problem for not comprehending the big picture.

 

One bug? I really doubt you played vanilla WoW.

[Blackardin]

Bioware gambled, and rushed SWTOR to launch way before it was polished. SWTOR could have been GREAT.

 

1. Bioware did not gamble on anything. What they did is the norm

 

2. MMORPG's are never shipped complete. They ship with a shell and then are added to over the next 7 to 10 years. This is the norm. That is why they call it a "launch" This is not "Call of duty" or any other shooter.

 

3. If people had some modicum of understanding of this fact, we would see less of these type of uniformed posts

 

4. If more people took the time to read and understand the genre, we would see less of these types of posts.

 

5. If people understood the economics are play here, we would see less of these types of posts.

 

Carry on. ;p

[mSum]

I'd rather play a beta build now rather than wait 5 more years.

[Marlaine]

One bug? I really doubt you played vanilla WoW.

 

Jesus. I played it relentlessly at release! So did everyone else I was playing with, and none of them had problems either.

 

I can say the same crap about you, because it doesn't at all sound like you were playing wow on release. It sounds to me like you're a wow hater. The funny thing is that I'm a wow hater, but I don't let my hate cloud the facts and just start making crap up.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Marlaine

[BrandonSM]

No, how about you don't make stuff up? There's a reason why people were playing the crap out of wow at release, and that's because it was frakken awesome. Amazingly well polished, fast-paced, and smooth gameplay combat. Those with a brain realized that the inconveniences (queues and loot lag) had nothing to do with polish, and everything to do with demand way over the top of what was expected.

 

Oh really? Did you really play WoW at the release?

[DarthRik]

Bioware gambled, and rushed SWTOR to launch way before it was polished. SWTOR could have been GREAT. They gambled and lost in my opinion. I realize many will point to sales figures and say 1.7 million subscribers say different. But lets be real. It was one of the most hyped, and long-awaited MMO's in history, and one of the biggest IP's ever. It's the hype and IP that drove the initial sales. But the majority of the seasoned MMO players out there who have played this game know it has not delivered. Many of them have gone back to their previous games.

 

BioWare and EA should have had the attitude of Blizzard. They should have listened to the beta-testers, and delayed SWTOR's launch until the product was truly ready.

 

Read this quote from Blizzard:

 

"While working on Diablo III we've been called out for messing around with systems too much, that the game is good as-is and we should just release it. I think that's a fair argument to make, but I also think it's incorrect. Our job isn't just to put out a game, it's to release the next Diablo game. No one will remember if the game is late, only if it's great. We trust in our ability to put out a great game, but we're not quite there yet."

 

-- Jay Wilson, Game Director: Diablo III

 

 

Sage wisdom if you ask me. Something EA seems to sorely lack IMO.

 

nice blizzard quote

 

one word for you

 

Cataclysm.......

 

funny how they put out a great xpac that lost them 1.7 million subs over 3Q

[djsmileey]

Get your facts straight. Wow was extremely polished for its time. Ofc for today's standard it would be a joke.

 

Name ONE game that has a perfect launch.

 

and what the heck, you tell me to get my facts straight, and then agree with me?

 

Makes perfect sense.

 

WoW Had just as many problems if not more than TOR on release, just because you didn't have all those problems doesn't mean they didn't exist.

 

I am not gonna argue about this, there are many WoW vs TOR threads already, you can go argue with them.

 

Point is, just because you say TOR has a bad launch, doesn't make it so.

 

Relatively speaking for todays launches, it was DAMN good, and the numbers CLEARLY reflect so.

[Marlaine]

Oh really? Did you really play WoW at the release?

 

I will refer you to the post above yours. You're just another hater making crap up about a game you don't like.

[Arkerus]

And it's a complete and utter waste of resources. So. No.

 

But you are entirely entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine. However, I have a tough time believing that most people actually like voice-overs for something as simple as a kill 10 rats quest. So for that reason, I don't believe your opinion has much merit.

 

LOL.

 

You weren't even on the dev staff, you have no idea of the finances, you probably can't even build a project plan and YOU have the audacity to make the general assumption they wasted all the resources on voice acting??

 

As if resources spent in area one had a definitive affect on area two. You have no idea how their finance model worked. You have on idea how they split the dev teams.

 

Really?

 

REALLY?

 

Oh...wow...

 

You and the rest of the armchair developers and analysts can leave the conversation because you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

You're just shooting from the hip, creating anecdotes and strawmen. Just like the rest of the "why did bioware do X" people.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Arkerus

[Blackardin]

No, how about you don't make stuff up? There's a reason why people were playing the crap out of wow at release, and that's because it was frakken awesome. Amazingly well polished, fast-paced, and smooth gameplay combat. Those with a brain realized that the inconveniences (queues and loot lag) had nothing to do with polish, and everything to do with demand way over the top of what was expected.

 

Once again, hyperbole and conjecture relating to past MMORPGs.

 

I was in Wow beta, played Wow from day one.

 

Wow was a mess at launch. Queue times were in the 10s of hours. Quests were broken, skills were broken, the auction house was broken, the mail was broken. Servers were crashing daily if not hourly. There was no end-game there either. They had to bring the entire game down for two days at one point. People were still falling through the world months after release.

 

All MMORPGs, due to the complexities involved, have issues at launch. WoW was no different. This one has been about the smoothest that I have seen, and I have played all the big names at launch.

[djsmileey]

OK, believe what you want to believe through whatever skewed lense you want. I should add that I HATE wow, with a passion, but only a fool is unwilling to recognize the fact that it's the most polished mmo ever released.

 

lol, don't be rediculous.

 

You clearly don't know what you are talking about, and no... it's not a known idea that "wow had smoothest launch ever"

 

If anything, TOR has had the best launch i've ever seen.

[Marroc]

considering the current state of Diablo 3 I beg to differ.

[BrandonSM]

Jesus. I played it relentlessly at release! So did everyone else I was playing with, and none of them had problems either.

 

I can say the same crap about you, because it doesn't at all sound like you were playing wow on release. It sounds to me like you're a wow hater. The funny thing is that I'm a wow hater, but I don't let my hate cloud the facts and just start making crap up.

 

You can ask anybody I played with on the DragonMaw server. People were going through walls and crashing whenever they died. People were getting stuck in the enviroment constantly.

[Marlaine]

nice blizzard quote

 

one word for you

 

Cataclysm.......

 

funny how they put out a great xpac that lost them 1.7 million subs over 3Q

 

The loss of customers has more to do with the failed raiding concept than their ability to put out a good game. When will devs realize that raiding is dead? Most players have absolutely zero interest in raiding. So, if you base your entire end-game on raiding, people are eventually going to wise up and leave the game that screws over 85% of the population.

[BrandonSM]

lol, don't be rediculous.

 

You clearly don't know what you are talking about, and no... it's not a known idea that "wow had smoothest launch ever"

 

If anything, TOR has had the best launch i've ever seen.

 

This thank you!

[Ebbikenezer]

I can say one thing about Diablo 3 for fact:

 

Good thing they are waiting to release Diablo 2 with better graphics. Honestly, that's what it is.

 

To each their own, and I don't put down the game because Diablo 2 was great fun, but just like SC2... it's the same game with updated graphics. I made the mistake of buying SC2 expecting something much more advanced than SC1 and it didn't deliver there.

 

Due to NDA I won't go into detail, suffice to say I won't be repeating my mistake.

 

Also: If BW/EA DID listen to everyone who had a gripe this game would be a MUCH worse mess than the little issues it has now.

 

 

And think about the complaints everyone makes constantly, because they feel their carbon copy of the same problem is somehow more important than the original thread(s) started... just think about it=====>

 

-People would complain we level too slow.

-People would complain we level too fast.

-Complaints would be made about "I want an MMO not a space sim."

-People would gripe that the AH works to well for those using it constantly, and the economy is biased to those who spend time on the GTN.

-Complaints would be made about too much confusion with UI customization.

-Threads would be started every minute about class imbalance based solely on DPS meters.

-More threads would be started crabbing about a difficult boss ability to handle, of course based on combat logs.

-There would be numerous complaints about how all a geared out melee has to do is auto attack someone to death in a corner in WZs.

-CC would be nearly completely ineffective in PvP.

-There would be petitions going around saying that it's way too difficult to get end-game gear, and there is far too much disparity between gear levels in PvP and PvE and BW needs to make the gear not only easier to obtain, but all of it on a much more similar level so Joe Blow the Solo Star can be comparably geared to Epeen Evan the Raging Raider.

 

 

 

And the list goes on and on. No matter what is done, people won't be satisfied, and it happens in every game. Blizzard's forums mirror these ones for complaints and "suggestions" and I would imagine it won't be any different for Bluehole, Arenanet/NCSoft, Trion or any of them for that matter.

 

 

I think BW has done just fine with the release, I am enjoying the game for what it is as I burned myself out on being the aforementioned "Evan" when I was hardcore raiding in WoW. And what is it? ===> A game. Recreation.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Ebbikenezer

[djsmileey]

The loss of customers has more to do with the failed raiding concept than their ability to put out a good game. When will devs realize that raiding is dead? Most players have absolutely zero interest in raiding. So, if you base your entire end-game on raiding, people are eventually going to wise up and leave the game that screws over 85% of the population.

 

Number play is fun.

 

Did you know that 99% of 71% of TOR players are 100% HAPPY and 52% lethargic.

 

Also, there is 192 million registered TOR players.

[Neothanos]

While I agree there was a lot worse launches over the years wows being one them I also agree with the op in the sense that this game wasnt ready for launch on December 20.

 

 

I like the game (best story driven mmo) but the amount of design flaws and glitches are annoying to say the least.

[Coiffio]

Bioware gambled, and rushed SWTOR to launch way before it was polished. SWTOR could have been GREAT. They gambled and lost in my opinion. I realize many will point to sales figures and say 1.7 million subscribers say different. But lets be real. It was one of the most hyped, and long-awaited MMO's in history, and one of the biggest IP's ever. It's the hype and IP that drove the initial sales. But the majority of the seasoned MMO players out there who have played this game know it has not delivered. Many of them have gone back to their previous games.

 

BioWare and EA should have had the attitude of Blizzard. They should have listened to the beta-testers, and delayed SWTOR's launch until the product was truly ready.

 

Read this quote from Blizzard:

 

"While working on Diablo III we've been called out for messing around with systems too much, that the game is good as-is and we should just release it. I think that's a fair argument to make, but I also think it's incorrect. Our job isn't just to put out a game, it's to release the next Diablo game. No one will remember if the game is late, only if it's great. We trust in our ability to put out a great game, but we're not quite there yet."

 

-- Jay Wilson, Game Director: Diablo III

 

 

Sage wisdom if you ask me. Something EA seems to sorely lack IMO.

 

You can delay a game for years if you want, it won't make it good. Just as easily as you can have games with shorter development times that turn out great. There is no formula to it. A game either has the potential, or it doesn't. There are simply so many factors that play into this, and it's short sighted to think that time spent in development is all you need to be great. If there was no foundation to build upon in the first place, none of that matters. SWTOR was delayed enough, a year, two years more probably wouldn't have changed the core issues with this title. I will agree that indeed no one will care if a game is late as long as it's good, but simply delaying the game as I said will do no good if you didn't have a good direction to take it in to begin with.

[Jellison]

Bioware gambled,

 

No. EA, like it does with 100% of their games, has deadlines and rushes the **** out of BioWare's devs, not to mention the idiotic choice of placing SWTOR in the hands of BioWare austin, a newbie branch of the company. If anyone's to blame it's EA.

[DarthKong]

Number play is fun.

 

Did you know that 99% of 71% of TOR players are 100% HAPPY and 52% lethargic.

 

Also, there is 192 million registered TOR players.

 

Stop posting lies.

 

It's 54% letehargic...