stevewilson Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 The Eliminator set seems to have a lot of Accuracy on it and I'm already at 98% with half the set. Do we really need all this accuracy? Also I'm at over 108% for special attacks...are special attacks everything except rapid shots? Do you guys mix in part of the combat medic set or something or should I just go full Eliminator set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elacourse Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Accuracy over 100% gives you more armor pen, that is the point. The set as a whole is pretty balanced for what we need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewilson Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 I'm playing pyro ...is it still what I need? I'm assuming your talking about arsenal because of the armour pen comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chainsawsamurai Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Accuracy over 100% gives you more armor pen, that is the point. The set as a whole is pretty balanced for what we need. No it doesn't. Accuracy over 100% negates your target's Defense, not Armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yazule Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 world boss has 5% extra defense raid boss has 10% so you need 110% accuracy for end game pve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moushen Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) My concern about the Eliminator set is the lack of or low amounts of crit and surge. As I gain pieces of the set I am loosing both crit & surge. I have the 2 piece set bonus with +15% to TM crit, but hate losing surge and crit. So far its seems like the base damage I am gaining offsets the loss. At this point, the +15 to TM crit and increase in base seems much better that the 1-2% loss in crit rate. I also think I may have gained around 5% surge. After examing all the eliminator set pcs, it seems like I will loose alot of crit and surge. Some pcs have me loosing ~50 points of crit and surge each. Edited February 6, 2012 by Moushen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yazule Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 My concern about the Eliminator set is the lack of or low amounts of crit and surge. As I gain pieces of the set I am loosing both crit & surge. I have the 2 piece set bonus with +15% to TM crit, but hate losing surge and crit. So far its seems like the base damage I am gaining offsets the loss. At this point, the +15 to TM crit and increase in base seems much better that the 1-2% loss in crit rate. I also think I may have gained around 5% surge. After examing all the eliminator set pcs, it seems like I will loose alot of crit and surge. Some pcs have me loosing ~50 points of crit and surge each. once you hit the soft caps for crit and surge you should be stacking power, you are going to have to rearrange your gear improvements to do this... at least something in this game is not super easy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrekorSilverfang Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 The Eliminator set seems to have a lot of Accuracy on it and I'm already at 98% with half the set. Do we really need all this accuracy? Also I'm at over 108% for special attacks...are special attacks everything except rapid shots? Do you guys mix in part of the combat medic set or something or should I just go full Eliminator set. Rail shot and Unload are both weapon damage and affected by defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakunvar Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Most people tend to missuse the words "Soft cap and Hard cap" nowadays.. There is no soft cap or hard cap to "most" stats aside from acc. being that endgame bosses are 110% acc. (This is also being tested to possibly only be 8% fyi.) Its very hard to determine which atm without combat logs as it takes a very, very long time and amount of hits on the same mob to confirm. Stats such as Crit and Surge have "DIMINISHING RETURNS" as well as I do "think" alacrity and expertise does as well, although I do not look into those 2 stats much currently so dont quote me on those two. Soft cap=After certain level of something the benefit drops to a point where you only slightly benefit from the stat. which usually leads to other stats being focused on. Hard cap=After certain level of something the benefit completely halts and you no longer receive any benefit from it. Diminishing returns= After multiple levels of a stat the benefit keeps "diminishing" the more you receive of that stat. usually resulting in switching focus to another stat that has more "weight" to it or value till they balance out. When people are mentioning the 30-35% crit range, and 80-85% surge range they usually say soft cap, when really its not. This just the range where it becomes more beneficial to start stacking a different stat vs the same one. When you balance out one stat the others start to become abit more valuable again. People are currently working on accurate calculations and bugs in a spreadsheet to help with this. Meaning don't just stack crit and surge to that mark and never look at it again. Its best to keep reading info on stat weights and such till everyone figures out more information. Power on the other hand doesn't cap or have diminishing returns on it as it seems currently. Now does this mean you should only stack power? No.. Arsenal especially leans a lot on criting to vent heat etc. Sithwarrior.com is a good reference site to look thru for information and calculations if you would like proof of all this. Also, if you wish to see on your own its quite easy to take all your gear off, write down your crit/surge and use a relic and write down %. Then put only like 50-100 crit surge worth of gear on and use the same relic and note the difference the relic gave you before and after. Hope that helps someone.. p.s. Just remembered I wanted to add something else about acc... Everything other then your Rapid shots (the non-heat, lvl 1 ability you get) is a "Special attack" This means that YES unload and Rail shot are NOT based on tech accuracy, but on Special attack accuracy and both are subject to the mobs defense. (Note that both special attack acc. % and tech attack accuracy are the same atm though) Now tech. attacks are subject to the mobs resistance. to answer the OP's question as well.. You want at least 4 pieces of the "Eliminator" set for the set bonus for sure. Then whatever gives you the better stats. I have tons of pieces of gear that I use only for the Mods in them which is a very good idea endgame. Personally, I would get all 5 pieces and then swap any mods that you do not need or are not very good for whatever you want. A tip is to look @ champion PVP gear for mods as they are easy to obtain. Edited February 7, 2012 by Rakunvar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewilson Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 I was asking regarding PVP as I don't PVE. I take there is an eliminator set in PVE too? Sorry for the confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yazule Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Most people tend to missuse the words "Soft cap and Hard cap" nowadays.. Soft cap=After certain level of something the benefit drops to a point where you only slightly benefit from the stat. which usually leads to other stats being focused on. To me soft cap is when the tangent on the curve of diminishing returns goes over 45 degrees which means every point added adds to diminishing returns more than it adds to the skill adjustment. but I am a math guy and that is in my opinion where the value of a skill drops faster than its advantage. so I do not think I am in any way miss-using the term but opinions are like arseholes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verakith Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 A tip is to look @ champion PVP gear for mods as they are easy to obtain. Haha I did this. Was sitting at 102% (112%) hit, swapped out my enhancement in the Champion helm to the one in my Rakata Helm. Overall stat change was like: -1 Aim -4 End -60 Accuracy +60 Surge Pretty solid trade off when you don't need more accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldrazor Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Don't forget that stacking power will yield crit and surge more potent (just to complicate things). So there is in fact no soft cap at all, just diminishing returns on crit/surge vs increasing benefit of crit/surge due to power increase (pluss extra heat venting and stuff that makes things really complicated to calculate). At one point one could argue that reducing the GCD and channeling speed will actually net the highest dps increase for a while, though this will probably not happen ingame as stats will not be high enough on any gear in the forseeable future:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yazule Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Don't forget that stacking power will yield crit and surge more potent (just to complicate things). So there is in fact no soft cap at all, just diminishing returns on crit/surge vs increasing benefit of crit/surge due to power increase (pluss extra heat venting and stuff that makes things really complicated to calculate). At one point one could argue that reducing the GCD and channeling speed will actually net the highest dps increase for a while, though this will probably not happen ingame as stats will not be high enough on any gear in the forseeable future:confused: damage bouns to power is applied after crits acording to what i have read, either you are mistaken or i was misinformed in the diminishing returns thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldrazor Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 damage bouns to power is applied after crits acording to what i have read, either you are mistaken or i was misinformed in the diminishing returns thread... So if you have an ability with base damage of 1,000 a crit with no surge would be 1,500 While if your power adds 500 damage to that ability it hits for 1,000+500(power) and crits for 1,000+500(power)+500(crit)? Seems odd.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakunvar Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) To me soft cap is when the tangent on the curve of diminishing returns goes over 45 degrees which means every point added adds to diminishing returns more than it adds to the skill adjustment. but I am a math guy and that is in my opinion where the value of a skill drops faster than its advantage. so I do not think I am in any way miss-using the term but opinions are like arseholes I didn't specify you were the one using the term wrongly. Also, I would not go through the process of writing that wordy post if it was just my opinion, but I think you were referencing your opinion there. In a sense, your explanation is pretty similar. Although, a soft cap can really be any range that they chose and while diminish"ed" return/benefit of that stat is happening it usually doesn't keep scaling like actual diminish"ing" returns does. In your explanation it does basically do that but it usually just straight out has 2 levels of capping. Where it drops to the 45ish range and where you completely gain nothing from it. Up until you hit the soft cap, you will get the full benefit from w/e stat your stacking. Meaning there's usually no lessened value/diminishing value in between the two. Defense rating in wow was a good example of this, although atm I am overly tired and cannot recall if Accuracy behaves in the same way as it.. A few quick links, and the wow one has an example as well. http://www.wowwiki.com/Cap http://www.wowwiki.com/Diminishing_returns Not even sure someone wrote it on swtors wiki yet honestly. Edited February 9, 2012 by Rakunvar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakunvar Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) I was asking regarding PVP as I don't PVE. I take there is an eliminator set in PVE too? Sorry for the confusion. Yes There is. Also, I can't really fully answer your original question in regards to pvp because I haven't done enough research on players accuracy levels vs PVE endgame bosses and such. Sorry for the wordy posts for nothing lol. Edited February 9, 2012 by Rakunvar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cegenaus Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I was asking regarding PVP as I don't PVE. I take there is an eliminator set in PVE too? Sorry for the confusion. yes, just like pvp has cent, champ, and bm gear pve has tionese, columni, and rakata gear that have a different 2 and 4 piece bonus. i cant remember what the 4 piece is but the 2 piece is 15% TM crit. the trend right now is to use the 2 piece pvp to get the jetboost bonus and 2 piece pve to get the TM bonus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yazule Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I didn't specify you were the one using the term wrongly. Also, I would not go through the process of writing that wordy post if it was just my opinion, but I think you were referencing your opinion there. In a sense, your explanation is pretty similar. Although, a soft cap can really be any range that they chose and while diminish"ed" return/benefit of that stat is happening it usually doesn't keep scaling like actual diminish"ing" returns does. In your explanation it does basically do that but it usually just straight out has 2 levels of capping. Where it drops to the 45ish range and where you completely gain nothing from it. Up until you hit the soft cap, you will get the full benefit from w/e stat your stacking. Meaning there's usually no lessened value/diminishing value in between the two. Defense rating in wow was a good example of this, although atm I am overly tired and cannot recall if Accuracy behaves in the same way as it.. A few quick links, and the wow one has an example as well. http://www.wowwiki.com/Cap http://www.wowwiki.com/Diminishing_returns Not even sure someone wrote it on swtors wiki yet honestly. was not trying to argue, was just giving clarity on my definition, if we use the same words in different ways we will never agree on anything ( or we will agree on everything i guess lol) and I have a lot of things from wow i am philisophically opposed to as far as their "game logic" so their definitions are a little hinky to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yazule Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 So if you have an ability with base damage of 1,000 a crit with no surge would be 1,500 While if your power adds 500 damage to that ability it hits for 1,000+500(power) and crits for 1,000+500(power)+500(crit)? Seems odd.. i am saying if you have damage of 1000 and you crit with a 1.75 multiplier you get 1750 damage if you have damage of 1000 with a 1.75 crit multiplier and 500 bonus damage that is 1750+500 not 1500 *1.75 so the crit multiplier does not apply to the bonus damage, it is added at the end of the calculation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamhalo Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 once you hit the soft caps for crit and surge you should be stacking power, you are going to have to rearrange your gear improvements to do this... at least something in this game is not super easy.... I have noticed a lot of your replies to posts..and some may seem helpful, they all have this catty elitist attitude that no one really wants to deal with. We get you have a cool signature with colors but structure and **** if you are going to continue to gay up this merchant forum. Not trolling being 100% real with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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