How to fix Tracer/Grav spam?

[Zombifikation]

Arsenal is boring as hell, that's why I'm pyro. However as a fresh 50, there's no way I'm going to do more damage than the tracer tards, would be nice to see them so something with tracer spam.

[Verakith]

And this, right here, is the core of the problem with TM.

 

TM however is just one aspect of a greater, fundamentally flawed system. TOR does not, to my best knowledge, have any real rotations that build up on each other and are needed for the best possible damage. At most you use 3 skills in succession, at worst as seen with TM it's enough to spam one button and do sufficient damage in PvE and apparently PvP too.

 

Mercs have a priority system for a DPS rotation, much like the Shadow Priest in WoW.

 

1. TM to 5-stacks

2. Unload on proc

3. Heatseaker on CD

4. Railshot on CD (assuming 4-pc)

5. Fill CD gaps with TM

 

But the challenge comes with heat management.

[Cohutla]

LINE OF SIGHT

 

... nuf said

[Kiphere]

This is either a troll or you are low level. If you want to be effective in pvp you don't spam tracer after like level 30 I think?

 

Tracer is a builder ability. you use it 3-5 times max per target. If you're using tracer/grav alone as your "pvp" nuke you're seriously gimping yourself.

 

Tracer serves a few purposes. You stack for an actual big shot from rail, you cast unload when it's not on cooldown cause it's great damage per heat and you cast tracer when rail and unload are on cooldown.

 

It's a talent ability and it requires MANY talents to make it worthwhile at higher levels. Compare it with no talents to any other comparable damage ability from another class and tell me how op it is.

 

if you are looking at a fully talented TM/Grav round by itself against another classes spell that they get by walking up to a vendor and clicking train then you're not making a fair comparison.

 

Note to other people who agree with me: Stop replying to these posts, they're uninformed and generally just bad noise on the forums that will make people actually beleive the bs they're throwing.

 

 

 

 

Let's be honest with ourselves and each other for a moment. Tracer/Grav spam is currently the biggest blight upon the pvp landscape.

 

- It's ridiculously powerful for spamming 1 button (relative to every other spec having to use no less than 4-5 just to do the same damage and make their own skill trees maybe function). Dealing a good 2-2.5k per shot, non-crit, with a relative low cost, stacking multiple buffs/debuffs... that's almost as much as a full 3sec duration of other abilities like Ravage/Master Strike.

 

- Interrupts are useless because the more you spam, the less effective the interrupt is. This may seem counterintuitive but consider: If all I do is spam Tracer then, when I am locked out of it, I can use any of Rail Shot, Unload, or Heatseekers because they're NOT on cooldown, because all I'm doing is pressing Tracer. Everything else I can use will reliably be OFF cooldown should I actually be interrupted. Thus, playing the class wrong is actually rewarded.

 

- To be completely fair and honest, Power Shot does almost as much damage for the same time and cost... but does not stack mutliple buffs and debuffs, it will generally only trigger Combustion Cylinder. A Pyrotech can pull quite a lot with 1 button as well, but is more heavily encouraged to use a greater variety of skills.

 

Is the damage too much? Possibly, but overall dps numbers can be tuned in a variety of ways. What we need is a gameplay fix that discourges just spamming 1 button and being effectively immune to interrupts, while also being a Heavy Armor spec that stacks a 10% damage reduction giving you as much or more passive survivability as tank classes. No class should be able to 1 button 1v1, whether that class spams Tracer Missile, Force Lightning, Snipe, or Viscious Slash.

 

I'd say the best fix:

Migrate some of Tracer Missile/Power Shot's damage into other abilities, chiefly Unload, Heatseekers, and Thermal Detonator. This will leave the damage somewhat vulnerable to interrupts, and encourage players to invest 31 points into skill trees.

[Yazule]

you want to fix TM spam its easy, make our buffs/debuffs last more than 5 seconds, we are just doing buff maintenance.

[MajinUltima]

Then give arsenal mercs all the utility that the other classes have and I'm sure everyone would be fine with a damage reduction to tracer missile. You cannot just compare damage on one ability and ignore everything else.

 

Imagine if we had cover and were unable to be charged or pulled, that alone would be worth it.

You're in Heavy Armor with a 10% Damage reduction buff with a Knockback, a RANGED Stun, a damage-break CC, and the ability to heal. Snipers are in Medium Armor, get a less consistent buff, have a Knoback, a MELEE Stun, a damage-break CC, and NO heals. Sorcs are the squishiest class in the game, have a small bubble, a Knockback, a Stun, a damage-break CC, heals, and a sprint to compensate for the fact that they are the most fragile class in the game.

 

Translation: "Waah! I dunno what my class' own utility is relative to other classes so I'm going to complain that I need a buff!"

 

You have comparable CC options to the other ranged damage classes. Come back to complain about utility when you're a DPS Juggernaut/Guardian coming under fire from a Merc/Commando or Sorc/Sage who has just knocked you off a ledge while your Charge/Leap is on cooldown.

Yeah blatantly, you don't have any real numbers to talk about, you are talking about completely separate classes that work completely different.

Actually, most classes in the same work on a resource system that roughly divides into 12-ish with its costs. Juggerant, Guardian, Marauder, Sentinel, Commando, Vanguard are all examples of a straight 12, Merc and Powertech have a "100" bar but costs are divided into values that are 1/12ths of 100 (8, 16, 25, etc). Sniper, Operative, Gunslinger, and Scoundrel are also 100 bars with costs that tend to balance out to approximate 12ths (for example, Snipe's cost of 15 and its role as the class' fallback filler spell is the same as Tracer's cost of 16 and filler role).

 

Assassin and Shadow have a different regen rate so the costs don't quite line up. But using Thrash as an example (costs 25/100) with a regen rate of 8 per second, that is the equivalent of Tracer Missile (costs 16/100) with a regen rate of 5 per second. 1 GCD is the same as 1.5sec cast time, so the outgoing cost is the same as well. In case you can't figure out the equivalent math, both are abilities which require a 1.5sec use-time investment with a cost of 3sec's worth of regen.

 

Sorc/Sage is the only class in the game which doesn't follow this manner of cost and resource management. It's also the only class in the game with no zero-cost filler ability. This has resulted in some design issues for all 3 specs mentioned in my thread on Sorc/Sage issues.

 

Unless you're good at math and identifying patterns, I'm sure this kind of thing isn't noticable, so I'll forgive your rudely worded ignorance on the matter.

Meh, i am inclined to agree with the OP, spamming 1 button shouldn't do as well as it does, regardless of class. Though he isn't wrong, you're making out like being a light armour class is some big thing, considering the vast majority of players are sage/sorc, this is an actual problem. Being honest, it should generate more heat the more its spammed.

That's actually a GREAT balance idea. If each use increase the heat cost by 4 or ammo cost by 0.5 (for say 3 or 4 sec duration), you would have a situation where the optimal use is 2-3x in a row, and then a break of 1 Unload or 2 other abilities (say Rail Shot + Rapid Shots), before stacking it 2-3 more times.

 

So 3x => Rail Shot, Rapid Shots => 2x => Heatseekers... then a balance between Tracer, Rail, Heatseeker, Unload, or venting heat with Rapid Shots as approrpiate. I think that's a great idea for not really changing the class, but to prevent the spam issue and make the damage line up better with the cost of use. (And apply the same cost fix to Power Shot, not like Pyrotech 1-button spams it AS often, but it is something that can be done with similr issues.)

 

Well thought, that's a great way to hinder the spam without changing the functionality or rotation of the class.

LINE OF SIGHT

... nuf said

"Herp derp the class is totally balanced if you hide from it and never fight it!" I always lol when someone comes up with this particularly dumb response. It's usually someone who narrowly wins a 1v1 mirror matchup with their own class by ducking behind a pillar on the rafters in the huttball arena, and assumes this clearly means "balanced as intended" despite the fact that this approach is worthless in 90% of pvp areas, and 100% useless for all melee classes in the game.

 

"They're totally balanced if you never actually fight them!" Yeah, good one.

Edited February 8, 2012 by MajinUltima

[Yazule]

the more you cast TM the higher your heat is, the higher your heat is the slower it goes away... maybe you need to learn our mechanics before you slice into everyone about not knowing things.

 

so that "great idea" is in play, so therefore using the rules of logic you have what you want, so bugger off.

[DervimNorth]

You're in Heavy Armor with a 10% Damage reduction buff with a Knockback, a RANGED Stun, a damage-break CC, and the ability to heal. Snipers are in Medium Armor, get a less consistent buff, have a Knoback, a MELEE Stun, a damage-break CC, and NO heals. Sorcs are the squishiest class in the game, have a small bubble, a Knockback, a Stun, a damage-break CC, heals, and a sprint to compensate for the fact that they are the most fragile class in the game.

 

Translation: "Waah! I dunno what my class' own utility is relative to other classes so I'm going to complain that I need a buff!"

 

You have comparable CC options to the other ranged damage classes. Come back to complain about utility when you're a DPS Juggernaut/Guardian coming under fire from a Merc/Commando or Sorc/Sage who has just knocked you off a ledge while your Charge/Leap is on cooldown.

Actually, most classes in the same work on a resource system that roughly divides into 12-ish with its costs. Juggerant, Guardian, Marauder, Sentinel, Commando, Vanguard are all examples of a straight 12, Merc and Powertech have a "100" bar but costs are divided into values that are 1/12ths of 100 (8, 16, 25, etc). Sniper, Operative, Gunslinger, and Scoundrel are also 100 bars with costs that tend to balance out to approximate 12ths (for example, Snipe's cost of 15 and its role as the class' fallback filler spell is the same as Tracer's cost of 16 and filler role).

 

Assassin and Shadow have a different regen rate so the costs don't quite line up. But using Thrash as an example (costs 25/100) with a regen rate of 8 per second, that is the equivalent of Tracer Missile (costs 16/100) with a regen rate of 5 per second. 1 GCD is the same as 1.5sec cast time, so the outgoing cost is the same as well. In case you can't figure out the equivalent math, both are abilities which require a 1.5sec use-time investment with a cost of 3sec's worth of regen.

 

Sorc/Sage is the only class in the game which doesn't follow this manner of cost and resource management. It's also the only class in the game with no zero-cost filler ability. This has resulted in some design issues for all 3 specs mentioned in my thread on Sorc/Sage issues.

 

Unless you're good at math and identifying patterns, I'm sure this kind of thing isn't noticable, so I'll forgive your rudely worded ignorance on the matter.

 

That's actually a GREAT balance idea. If each use increase the heat cost by 4 or ammo cost by 0.5 (for say 3 or 4 sec duration), you would have a situation where the optimal use is 2-3x in a row, and then a break of 1 Unload or 2 other abilities (say Rail Shot + Rapid Shots), before stacking it 2-3 more times.

 

So 3x => Rail Shot, Rapid Shots => 2x => Heatseekers... then a balance between Tracer, Rail, Heatseeker, Unload, or venting heat with Rapid Shots as approrpiate. I think that's a great idea for not really changing the class, but to prevent the spam issue and make the damage line up better with the cost of use. (And apply the same cost fix to Power Shot, not like Pyrotech 1-button spams it AS often, but it is something that can be done with similr issues.)

 

Well thought, that's a great way to hinder the spam without changing the functionality or rotation of the class.

 

"Herp derp the class is totally balanced if you hide from it and never fight it!" I always lol when someone comes up with this particularly dumb response. It's usually someone who narrowly wins a 1v1 mirror matchup with their own class by ducking behind a pillar on the rafters in the huttball arena, and assumes this clearly means "balanced as intended" despite the fact that this approach is worthless in 90% of pvp areas, and 100% useless for all melee classes in the game.

 

"They're totally balanced if you never actually fight them!" Yeah, good one.

 

 

*rolls on the flore laughing out loud after reading,"Sorc is the squishiest class in the game..."*

 

Dude, you did not just said that:D

 

I've literally stopped reading your post and nearly spewed my coffee all over the monitor.

 

You gotta warn people before joke like that.

[Yazule]

*rolls on the flore laughing out loud after reading,"Sorc is the squishiest class in the game..."*

 

Dude, you did not just said that:D

 

I've literally stopped reading your post and nearly spewed my coffee all over the monitor.

 

You gotta warn people before joke like that.

 

you notice the sorc bubble is "little" too?

 

yeah, 1.5TM worth of little...which i guess makes TM little, which by the rules of logic would say that this whole thread is invalid

[PullinStuff]

You're in Heavy Armor with a 10% Damage reduction buff with a Knockback, a RANGED Stun, a damage-break CC, and the ability to heal. Snipers are in Medium Armor, get a less consistent buff, have a Knoback, a MELEE Stun, a damage-break CC, and NO heals. Sorcs are the squishiest class in the game, have a small bubble, a Knockback, a Stun, a damage-break CC, heals, and a sprint to compensate for the fact that they are the most fragile class in the game.

 

Translation: "Waah! I dunno what my class' own utility is relative to other classes so I'm going to complain that I need a buff!"

 

No one that I see is asking for a BH Buff

 

You have comparable CC options to the other ranged damage classes. Come back to complain about utility when you're a DPS Juggernaut/Guardian coming under fire from a Merc/Commando or Sorc/Sage who has just knocked you off a ledge while your Charge/Leap is on cooldown.

 

The more you complain about game mechanics the more I think maybe you should probably go play something else.

 

Actually, most classes in the same work on a resource system that roughly divides into 12-ish with its costs. Juggerant, Guardian, Marauder, Sentinel, Commando, Vanguard are all examples of a straight 12, Merc and Powertech have a "100" bar but costs are divided into values that are 1/12ths of 100 (8, 16, 25, etc). Sniper, Operative, Gunslinger, and Scoundrel are also 100 bars with costs that tend to balance out to approximate 12ths (for example, Snipe's cost of 15 and its role as the class' fallback filler spell is the same as Tracer's cost of 16 and filler role).

 

How delightful that you think because A costs = B costs that they should be similar, what a boring game you would make...

 

Unless you're good at math and identifying patterns, I'm sure this kind of thing isn't noticable, so I'll forgive your rudely worded ignorance on the matter.

 

Condescension does not make you right. And part that I omitted which someone else answered I think maybe I should mention this again. 40+ heat means we loose heat slower, there is more to the model than your simple observation.

 

That's actually a GREAT balance idea. If each use increase the heat cost by 4 or ammo cost by 0.5 (for say 3 or 4 sec duration), you would have a situation where the optimal use is 2-3x in a row, and then a break of 1 Unload or 2 other abilities (say Rail Shot + Rapid Shots), before stacking it 2-3 more times.

 

Well, missy hissy fit, What those of us who are BH have been telling you is we DO EXACTLY WHAT YOU DESCRIBE HERE...

 

So 3x => Rail Shot, Rapid Shots => 2x => Heatseekers... then a balance between Tracer, Rail, Heatseeker, Unload, or venting heat with Rapid Shots as approrpiate. I think that's a great idea for not really changing the class, but to prevent the spam issue and make the damage line up better with the cost of use. (And apply the same cost fix to Power Shot, not like Pyrotech 1-button spams it AS often, but it is something that can be done with similr issues.)

 

 

Well thought, that's a great way to hinder the spam without changing the functionality or rotation of the class.

 

Except we need a fix to your perception of spam, not actual spamming going on.

 

"Herp derp the class is totally balanced if you hide from it and never fight it!" I always lol when someone comes up with this particularly dumb response. It's usually someone who narrowly wins a 1v1 mirror matchup with their own class by ducking behind a pillar on the rafters in the huttball arena, and assumes this clearly means "balanced as intended" despite the fact that this approach is worthless in 90% of pvp areas, and 100% useless for all melee classes in the game.

 

"They're totally balanced if you never actually fight them!" Yeah, good one.

 

Herp Derp, this class is unbalanced because I do not want to use terrain to my advantage...

 

This MMO is not forgiving to the tactically deficient, go cry about...

[DervimNorth]

you notice the sorc bubble is "little" too?

 

yeah, 1.5TM worth of little...which i guess makes TM little, which by the rules of logic would say that this whole thread is invalid

 

You kidding?! Any sorc displeased with their little bubble can have my two minutes cd shield, so long as I can have their bubble.

 

Group buff that mitigates 2.5k every 20 seconds and has an option of aoe blind for personal use vs 12 seconds 25% damage mitigation on a 2 minutes cooldown. Hell I'm up for such an exchange.

[AHawtRhino]

Please don't ask BW to fix this. Fixing tracer would require a fairly in depth change to the Merc, and with BW's track record so far on "fixes", I would rather have them NOT touch my class. So I have to push 3 buttons instead of 1 button three times? Man, that would make my life so much harder... should actually help! No more getting locked out of the ability that buffs all of my other abilities, defense, and heat expenditure!

[Yazule]

You kidding?! Any sorc displeased with their little bubble can have my two minutes cd shield, so long as I can have their bubble.

 

Group buff that mitigates 2.5k every 20 seconds and has an option of aoe blind for personal use vs 12 seconds 25% damage mitigation on a 2 minutes cooldown. Hell I'm up for such an exchange.

 

that is what i am saying, the guy called sorc bubble "little" while trying to slam people for not knowing what they are talking about...

 

 

i thought it was halarious

[Holographallstar]

What you don't get, even after reading my post (thanks) :

 

All of the other classes, including sorc, have cooldown on their major skills.

Some classes have cooldowns even on their bread and butter skills.

None of the classes can hit more with his filler skill than any other skill.

 

If you compare the damager per cast time of all skills, tracer missile would be after the big finishers of other classes, but before any of the regular skills of other classes. It's just too much damage on 1 spammable, armor debuffing skill.

 

This calls for some napkin math. These damage numbers assume a fresh 50 in average gear.

 

Using the Sorc 13/28 Madness hybrid Force Lightning doesn't have a cd and does ~3500 damage over a 3 second cast and slows the target.

 

Tracer missile comparatively does ~1000-1500 damage per 1.5 second cast. Two tracer missiles in 3 seconds is about as much damage as force lightning over the same period and applies 4 stacks of the armor rating debuff for a 16% armor reduction.

 

An operative using hidden strike/acid blade would hit for ~1500-2000 damage, stack a dot which does ~1000 damage over 6 seconds and debuffs the targets armor by 30% in one strike.

 

So in 3 seconds of game time all three classes have the potential to inflict the same amount of damage.

 

As to finishers, rail shot and heat seeker missile are no different than crushing darkness or chain lightning and share similar cd durations. Barrage procs off of TM are no different than lightning barrage procs off of affliction.

 

"BH is not hit at dps if he uses tracer missile spam, he still beats most of the classes in the dps race, if he is using nothing but tracer missile (sorry, can't find the video, where a guy cleared all his toolbars and used only 1 button for tracer missile and still topped the dps chart).

 

This is no different for other ranged dps classes who could also in theory spam 1-2 abilities.

 

If BW nerfes the tracer missile, or puts a cooldown on it, you will not be hit at the dps, cause you will have to use other skills.

 

You don't have to stack armor debuff to 5. Noone else is able to stack their buffs/debuffs that high. An agent would ... ahemm "worship" the devs, if he could gain 5 TAs.

 

You can't compare Operative game play with Mercenaries. Mercenaries operate no differently than snipers or sorcerers which which in general consists of debuff target, unleash nukes, fill with appropriate ability while waiting for procs/cd's.

 

Operatives function the same as other melee classes, which is debuff target, prioritize abilities/cd's as they become available.

 

As to the stacking armor debuff, in one strike with AB an operative debuffs a targets armor rating by 30%, comparatively it takes a mercenary 3 rounds of TM to debuff a targets armor rating by 20%.

 

Edited to say armor rating instead of armor.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Holographallstar

[nogoodtomedead]

To the original post,

 

the arsenal spec is heavily designed around the use of tracer missile.

 

Tracer does a few things for us, #1 it applies heat signatures, within our talent tree, we have a talent that grants an additional signature. #2 generates tracer lock(increases railshot), 3# lowers targets armor. Combine that with our passive which grants armor pen.

 

My opening rotation looks like this, tracerx3-heatseeker missile-tracerx2-railshot

now add in the barrage procs from using tracer missile and in actual gameplay it looks like this. tracerx3-heatseeker-unload(barrage)-tracerx2-unload(barrage)-railshot.

 

Now that covers dmg dealing abilites, but in a pvp situation its very seldom that I can just stand there and deal dmg all day without notice. so I have I start using utility skills like electric dart, concussion missile, jetboost, rocketpunch(has knockback), shield, heals.

 

Lets face a simple truth and be honest here, unless you have a lvl 50 arsenal spec bounty hunter, your just not gonna understand the spec. This spec's dps is like a snowball effect, it starts small but gets bigger as our rotation plays out. Spamming Tracer missile is stupid and its a good way to completely overheat yourself.

[Vultan]

as well as having almost tank level of survivability.

 

Maybe a Hybrid but not a Full Arsenal. We are squishy as hell! So what do you want to really nerf?

 

The ones who spam Tracer/Grav are the ones who only go up Arsenal to get Tracer and yeah they spam it, because it is the best damage skill they have. The reason they seem to do just as much damage as a full arsenal is because of their survivability, not because Tracer does so much damage.

 

If a full arsenal actually had the survivability of a Hybrid Bodyguard/Arsenal (which they do not) They would easily double or tripple the damage of the Hybrid. But they are squishy so they look to be doing the same. Which is balance..........

 

As far as the Sorcerer, Merc comparisons, all I can say is 90% of the Warzones I am in it is a Sorcerer who is tops of the DPS charts and the mercs are a good distant second.

 

Don't ask for nerfs of other classes, (especially when most who are asking for them don't know anything about how they work in the first place) ask for boosts to your own.

[DervimNorth]

that is what i am saying, the guy called sorc bubble "little" while trying to slam people for not knowing what they are talking about...

 

 

i thought it was halarious

 

IKR!

 

It's especially ridiculous when you end up giving up on trying to take down tank+sorc, or watching entire enemy team getting buffed by two sorcs from afar every possible time. Every player getting total 15k damage mitigated for the duration of two minutes, while getting aoe heealed-good luck winning against such a pre-made.

[Pystov]

I am so tired of seeing these posts… Please try to understand the build.

 

Instead of blindly calling for “nerfs” or claiming people are bad players for using Tracer Missile, take at look at why people are using Tracer Missile in the first place.

 

Look at the talents in Arsenal, and you will see that this is the way the Arsenal build is designed. Arsenal build Mercenaries are playing the class the way it is intended to be played.

 

Most people only see the animation for the Tracer Missiles and fail to see where the real damage comes from, the instant cast attacks BUFFED by Tracer Missile.

 

From what I have seen, 100% of the complaints of Tracer Missile are from PVP not PVE. Most people claim that they see people sit and cast tracer missile all day long (which I have yet to see)

 

In PVP I normally cast only 2-3 Tracer Missiles to get the buffs/debuffs up, then I hit Unload, Heat Seeking Missiles (HSM), and Rail Shot (RS). If I have to switch Targets, my rotation starts again.

 

That is my normal rotation. If no one interrupts it this rotation I do well; on the other hand, if I get interrupted then I have issues and have to scramble.

 

That is the simplest solution for fighting an Arsenal Merc, interrupt the tracer cast, and you will disrupt his whole rotation. Problem solved, there is no need to try to destroy a whole build.

 

Please, look at the talents and see for yourself:

 

Power Barrier

Power Shot and Tracer Missile have a [50 / 100]% chance to generate a Power Barrier that reduces damage taken by 2% for 15 seconds. Stacks up to 5 times.

 

Tracer Lock

Tracer Missile grants Target Lock, increasing the damage dealt by the next Rail Shot by 6%. Stacks up to 5 times.

 

Barrage

Power Shot and Tracer Missile have a [10 / 20 / 30]% chance to finish the cool down on Unload and increase the damage dealt by the next Unload by 25%. This effect cannot occur more than once every 6 seconds.

 

Tracer Missile

Activation: 1.5 secs

Heat: 25

Range: 30 m

Launches a missile at the target that deals X kinetic damage and applies a heat signature, reducing the armor rating by 4% for 15 seconds. Stacks up to 5 times. Heat signatures leave the target vulnerable to Rail Shot.

 

Heatseeker Missiles

Instant

Heat: 16

Cooldown: 15s

Range: 30 m

Fires several missiles that deal X kinetic damage. This damage is increased by 5% per heat signature on the target.

Rail Shot

Instant

Heat: 16

Cooldown: 15s

Range: 30 m

Fires a very powerful shot at the target that deals X - X weapon damage. Only usable against incapacitated targets and targets suffering from periodic damage.

 

Unload

Instant

Heat: 16

Cooldown: 15s

Range: 30 m

Unloads your blaster into the target, dealing X - X weapon damage every second. Weak and standard enemies caught in the blaster fire are stunned for the duration. Fires both blasters if dual wielding.

 

 

Couldn't say it better myself

[Sigmun]

Usually, when a large enough crowd has a problem with something, there is a reason behind it.

 

I personally wouldn't complain about TM/GR if any of my cooldown attacks as a vengeance juggernaut did more damage or hell, even equal damage to this "builder" attack that mercs have.

 

My builder attack (Assault, Sundering Assault) only crits for like 1.2k (SA) 800 (A) A 1.7k non crit seems pretty awesome in my book for a spammable attack, at least comparitively. I have full Centurion gear. I only crit for around 2.5k with impale on a light armored fresh 50 on a monday when it's raining outside and the planets align. Too bad it's on a 9 second cooldown. TM/GR doesn't have a cooldown.

 

As a dps juggernaut (vengeance) I feel like I am putting a lot of effort into every fight, managing cooldowns, working on rotation, keeping an eye on my rage. I am leveling a merc. I have him at 38 right now. I can honestly say it is way easier.

 

If you aren't going to nerf TM/GR please buff Vengeance Juggernauts.

 

Rage spec is just stupid don't even bring it up. Hur Hur 5k crits on smash.

[Hxxr]

Tracer Missile and Arsenal are alright as they are right now.

 

But it's damage could be reduced a bit, trading for RS-buff being a stack of three with 10% boost each and giving arsenal a much lower cooldown on Rail Shot and Heatseaker. Would be a lot more interesting to play and people would stop whine about Tracer Missiles. ;D

 

 

Usually, when a large enough crowd has a problem with something, there is a reason behind it.

 

The most well known dictators of modern history got to power by being backed up by a large enough crowd at the beginning ... guess how that turned out?

Edited February 10, 2012 by Hxxr

[DervimNorth]

Usually, when a large enough crowd has a problem with something, there is a reason behind it.

 

I personally wouldn't complain about TM/GR if any of my cooldown attacks as a vengeance juggernaut did more damage or hell, even equal damage to this "builder" attack that mercs have.

 

My builder attack (Assault, Sundering Assault) only crits for like 1.2k (SA) 800 (A) A 1.7k non crit seems pretty awesome in my book for a spammable attack, at least comparitively. I have full Centurion gear. I only crit for around 2.5k with impale on a light armored fresh 50 on a monday when it's raining outside and the planets align. Too bad it's on a 9 second cooldown. TM/GR doesn't have a cooldown.

 

As a dps juggernaut (vengeance) I feel like I am putting a lot of effort into every fight, managing cooldowns, working on rotation, keeping an eye on my rage. I am leveling a merc. I have him at 38 right now. I can honestly say it is way easier.

 

If you aren't going to nerf TM/GR please buff Vengeance Juggernauts.

 

Rage spec is just stupid don't even bring it up. Hur Hur 5k crits on smash.

 

Pardon me, but how many of your attacks have a 1.5sec channeling time and how many can be rendered useless with los?

[Crotach]

The easiest way to fix the tracer spam is to simply learn to play, if it kills you then rapid shots would kill you as well.

 

If you see someone just sitting and spamming tracer missiles:

1) they are a noob

2) they are an easy kill

 

If you just sit there and take the missiles in your face:

1) you are a noob

2) you are an easy kill

 

So, what to do with a tracer spammer? First, interrupt his cast, it's a 1.5s cast time and every class has an interrupt. Then move closer while they spam the one key and can't figure out what is going wrong. As the interrupt wears out and they start casting just move out of their line of sight when they're almost finished casting, this will really piss them off. Finally, when you get close to them just run around them and pew-pew-pew while they wonder what the message "you need to be facing your target" means.

 

Do not confuse this with a player who fires off 3 tracer missiles (to get the armor reduction) and then proceeds to annihilate the target with other abilities. These players are still fairly easy to kill, but may actually have a brain and know what to do when they see someone trying to get into melee range.

[Yazule]

The easiest way to fix the tracer spam is to simply learn to play, if it kills you then rapid shots would kill you as well.

 

If you see someone just sitting and spamming tracer missiles:

1) they are a noob

2) they are an easy kill

 

If you just sit there and take the missiles in your face:

1) you are a noob

2) you are an easy kill

 

So, what to do with a tracer spammer? First, interrupt his cast, it's a 1.5s cast time and every class has an interrupt. Then move closer while they spam the one key and can't figure out what is going wrong. As the interrupt wears out and they start casting just move out of their line of sight when they're almost finished casting, this will really piss them off. Finally, when you get close to them just run around them and pew-pew-pew while they wonder what the message "you need to be facing your target" means.

 

Do not confuse this with a player who fires off 3 tracer missiles (to get the armor reduction) and then proceeds to annihilate the target with other abilities. These players are still fairly easy to kill, but may actually have a brain and know what to do when they see someone trying to get into melee range.

 

ego much?

 

roflol

[Orondo]

QQ much?

[Sigmun]

Pardon me, but how many of your attacks have a 1.5sec channeling time and how many can be rendered useless with los?

 

Let's see. I have a 3 second channel called ravage that people can walk out of and that bugs quite frequently.

 

And the LOS arguement is lost on me because if I am LOSing the BH who is shooting me, I am also not doing damage.

 

LOS is less of an issue than having to be in melee.

 

How many of your attacks require you to be in melee?

 

All of mine do.