This Operative's Thoughts on the "Nerf"

[Raice]

I would like to comment on your post. I am hoping this is conveyed in a respectful tone, and that you understand this is most definately not an attempt to be rude, or pick a fight with you. I am more interested in discussing this situation with you, for two reasons. To gain knowledge, and share what I have learned through practical experience. Its anecdotal, without math to back it up. I apologize for that. With that in mind, Im quoting and answering to try and keep my thoughts on track.

 

 

 

 

I dont diagree that concealment operatives are still viable in pvp. They are, very much so. However, because of the classes inherent glass cannon aspect pvping as a freshly minted 50 with little or no gear is quite possibly the single most frustrating experience, short of playing a tank and having pillow fights. (The hour long fights where two tanks and two healers basically nickle and dime each other.)

 

 

 

 

I disagree with the term cry. I think dismay is much more correct, at least in my case. The effect on the PvP side was very pronounced. Where I was seeing 3.4k HS crits in little to no pvp gear, I was now seeing 1.8 crits-2.1 crits. This is severly damaging for a glass cannon. You see, concealment operatives really dont have very viable defenses. They cant go toe to toe with really, any classes for a prolonged period of time.

 

First off Evasion is either bugged, laggy on my server, or just plain doesnt work. It takes a full second after pressing the button for it to take effect. Further, It doesnt work against force attacks. Which means your one oh crap button is pretty useless when taking on four AC's.

 

Second Shield probe can take maybe one hit. From anyone thats geared, its more like half a hit before it goes down. That gives you maybe 1 second. Alot of damage goes out in 1 second, and you have no way to mitigate it.

 

This coupled with the fact that your dps is much lower now, means you cant burst down your target and reasonably hope to survive against equally geared/skilled players of any class. We will get to stuns in a moment, but yes they actually were buffed... sort of.

 

 

 

Proper use of escape, shields, healing abilities and stims will completely negate that. Which essentially means, operatives are the intelligence check. If you get owned 1v1 by an operative, you werent smart enough to keep yourself shielded, stimmed, or use your abilities. This is not balance. That, is a nerf.

 

 

That paints a pretty picture. Assuming several things.

1) They have no aoe to drop you out of stealth the minute you go back into it.

2) They are completely alone, and have no cooldowns to use.

3) Their team is comprised of completely clueless people who are paying no attention to the guy getting owned five feet away.

 

Again, not a buff. Just because you can chain stun doesnt mean you can dps hard enough for those chain stuns to mean anything. Ive seen and done equal geared against an intelligent player, inquisitor to be exact in Tat...

 

Inquistor is shielded. (hes not an idiot.) He eats the first stun. I drop into stealth. He aoe's, I get knocked back and out of stealth. He kites me and mocks me. Or... he eats the first stun, trinkets out of the second stun, kb's me and roots me, and kites me. OR... the list goes on and on. Heres a light armor wearer, that I should be able to dps down, but because I have no burst anymore, and my sustained is gone as well with the AB nerf.... Im not going to win.

 

Again, not a buff. Looks like a buff. Smells like a buff. But its really not. Not against any competent, halfway intelligent player.

 

 

 

For people in cent/champ/bm gear... this wasnt AS big of a deal. It was a nerf, but not as hard. The problem is, just because you who quite possibly already has a great deal of pvp gear isnt having a huge issue.... try and imagine a fresh fifty walking into pvp. Since most of the people on my server are cents/champs/bm geared, its already a faceroll experience. Now... try doing that while you get 3 comms... or the same boots six times in a row.

 

Its a nerf.

 

 

 

I understand what you're saying. I do, however disagree with it. Because essentially what you're saying is that pvp is about being facerolled by everyone until you get gear. So take it and like it. Thats not really an arguement, so much as acceptance of a poor design thats been passed on down the years.

 

 

Complete agreement.

However, its still a nerf.

 

To BioWare:

 

 

 

Again, I have to disagree.

This nerf hit concealment ops pretty hard in the pve aspect of the game. The pvp is not the main focus of this game. At least not what they sold us on, and thus adversely effecting the main aspect of the game for a minigame is not a well thought out, intelligent response to a need for fine tuning. Its a quick, sloppy patch thrown over a problem to appease a group.

 

Simply nerfing a class fixes nothing. In the operatives case, taking it back to the board, assigning some people, number crunching, and actually putting a little thought into redesigning some aspects of the game would have gone a long way towards reassuring the community that the nerf bat rounds werent emminent.

 

As it stands, this is the first in a list.

Expect more.

And sadly, no matter how you choose to view it. Its still a nerf.

 

I play a Scrapper. I came to check these boards to see what the Ops were saying on the nerf. This guy right here pretty much nails it. It was a nerf that had zero thought put into the notion of larger consequences. They "fixed" our "faster than intended kills" issue... but they ignored the probability of creating 2 more issues "Scrapper/Concealer dies faster than intended" and "Scrapper/Concealment kills slower than intended." The fact that Sage/Sorc got buffed right after this sealed the deal. My question is - if these were the classes that complained the most... why not just buff them and leave us alone? They were going to do it anyway....

 

Since we're on the subject, we can't kill "faster than intended" without the buffs and the gear in the first place. Why wouldn't they just fix THAT crap?

 

You other guys can argue all day long about "but if you do this... or if you have that..." But those are conditional arguments that exist inside of a vacuum. They aren't pointing out the bigger picture.

 

This whole thing has become a huge mess....

Edited February 8, 2012 by Raice

[DevorRentreen]

I play a Scrapper. I came to check these boards to see what the Ops were saying on the nerf. This guy right here pretty much nails it. It was a nerf that had zero thought put into the notion of larger consequences. They "fixed" our "faster than intended kills" issue... but they ignored the probability of creating 2 more issues "Scrapper/Concealer dies faster than intended" and "Scrapper/Concealment kills slower than intended." The fact that Sage/Sorc got buffed right after this sealed the deal. My question is - if these were the classes that complained the most... why not just buff them and leave us alone? They were going to do it anyway....

 

Since we're on the subject, we can't kill "faster than intended" without the buffs and the gear in the first place. Why wouldn't they just fix THAT crap?

 

You other guys can argue all day long about "but if you do this... or if you have that..." But those are conditional arguments that exist inside of a vacuum. They aren't pointing out the bigger picture.

 

This whole thing has become a huge mess....

 

I completely agree. I also tried to make it work for some time but just gave up...with the effort to needed to make OP work against the non-skilled I am having a blast with PT. 1-3 in damage 1st in protection and usually first in comms in every warzone as I level up.

[tordo]

In the past at least with Smugglers versus everyone else. The only thing I see is Inquisitors/Councilors able to do what they do and not even a word is said. Considering the same discussion different game of Jedi in general being over-powered.

 

So to thank Bioware for what exactly will never be something I agree to when in reality you deal with an over population of Jedi/Sith in general. I do agree each profession has a learning curve but, to say Bioware has the implementation down I strongly disagree. The operative play style has certainly changed with Inquistor/Councilor has barely changed. Back then and even now, there should not be an Alpha class in any MMO sorry.

 

-Tordo

[JayPres]

I read the entire thing.

 

I can't be too concerned because I'm not even level 50 yet. But what I can say is that I use abilities that I feel are more effective in the grand scheme of things.

 

My preference is also an indirect support role. I'm not setting the world on fire with damage or healing, but I make a huge impact because I am always right in the thick of every fight.

 

A stealth class, the wears medium armor with potent healing is a recipe to own if you have a game plan and fallback.

 

While I appreciate the OP for posting his rotations, I can't help but to be a bit insulted as a strategist. If you value your class you are going to find a way to win and shouldn't have to be told "it's ok guys".

 

If you're and Ops, grab your nuts, some decent gear and take some of your eggs out of the spike damage basket. We are fine and will continue to be so going forward.

 

How 'bout we post scenarios and rotations based on opponent's class?

[Ojas]

Awesome post.

 

You can't have a pvp game where a stealth class can 3 or 4 hit people, it's going to be bad for everyone. A good operative is still going to be an asset/ a handful to deal with.

 

That operative still has to work much harder, get less out of it, and have to put up with far more ******** (like every single pvp gear set being pointless).

[Karekoala]

Whoever you are, Sir. I love you for finally setting the score straight.

 

You are a God in my eyes.

[sMooMs]

deleted Edited February 9, 2012 by sMooMs

[sMooMs]

I read the entire thing.

 

I can't be too concerned because I'm not even level 50 yet. But what I can say is that I use abilities that I feel are more effective in the grand scheme of things.

 

My preference is also an indirect support role. I'm not setting the world on fire with damage or healing, but I make a huge impact because I am always right in the thick of every fight.

 

A stealth class, the wears medium armor with potent healing is a recipe to own if you have a game plan and fallback.

 

While I appreciate the OP for posting his rotations, I can't help but to be a bit insulted as a strategist. If you value your class you are going to find a way to win and shouldn't have to be told "it's ok guys".

 

If you're and Ops, grab your nuts, some decent gear and take some of your eggs out of the spike damage basket. We are fine and will continue to be so going forward.

 

How 'bout we post scenarios and rotations based on opponent's class?

 

by this logic lets grab dale earnheart slap him ina pinto and make him win the grand prix

[Ojas]

I play a Scrapper. I came to check these boards to see what the Ops were saying on the nerf. This guy right here pretty much nails it. It was a nerf that had zero thought put into the notion of larger consequences. They "fixed" our "faster than intended kills" issue... but they ignored the probability of creating 2 more issues "Scrapper/Concealer dies faster than intended" and "Scrapper/Concealment kills slower than intended." The fact that Sage/Sorc got buffed right after this sealed the deal. My question is - if these were the classes that complained the most... why not just buff them and leave us alone? They were going to do it anyway....

 

Since we're on the subject, we can't kill "faster than intended" without the buffs and the gear in the first place. Why wouldn't they just fix THAT crap?

 

You other guys can argue all day long about "but if you do this... or if you have that..." But those are conditional arguments that exist inside of a vacuum. They aren't pointing out the bigger picture.

 

This whole thing has become a huge mess....

 

That's exactly what it is. VAST! majority of the players see no changes except it's easier for them.

 

Us operative having to put up with being essentially taken out of the game is just wrong.

 

I am straight up dumbfounded as to how bioware can do this. Clearly, they straight up said, who gives a **** about the operative players, just make the sorcs happy.

[Duxk]

+1 to Donut he is a server mate, and it is a well constructed argument. Though I don't have any experience as a Operative it can never hurt to know the other side of an argument.