8/5/28 or 5/5/31 for PVE

[Eroex]

Build 1

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMhZMcZfhrbzGhMc.1

 

or

build 2

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMZMcZfhrbzGhrs.1

 

These are the 2 competing builds for PVE DPS what one is better?

 

I have 1916 fully buffed aim. 9% aim for me is 172 aim

 

really all it comes down to is thermal detonator worth giving up 9% aim.

 

build 1 rotation

Incendiary Missile > Rail Shot > Rocket Punch > Flame Blast > Unload > Rapid shots if your next attack will take you to 40+ heat.

 

 

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***separate issue***

 

I cant justify 3% crit for tech damage only, in ether build for prototype cylinders

 

build 1

3% aim > 3% crit for tech damage only

 

or

 

build 2

2% fire damage or 3% rail damage > 3% crit for tech damage only

 

Maybe you can bring some numbers on that. Ether way it would be relativity close and we would probably need a combat log for definitive numbers.

 

In build 2 you would be rapid shoting more so 3% crit will be less effective

 

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Edited February 4, 2012 by Eroex

[Dekai]

I know you think 3% Crit Tech damage isn't worth it, but take into account the only DPS abilities that are Ranged for you, and actually use, are Unload, Rapid Shots and Rail Shot, everything else is Tech.

 

This means all your DoT's(Which can crit and are a lot of damage PvE wise), IM initial hit, Flame Burst, Rocket Punch, TD. The majority of your sustained damage.

 

Just wanted to point that out.

[Eroex]

I know you think 3% Crit Tech damage isn't worth it, but take into account the only DPS abilities that are Ranged for you, and actually use, are Unload, Rapid Shots and Rail Shot, everything else is Tech.

 

This means all your DoT's(Which can crit and are a lot of damage PvE wise), IM initial hit, Flame Burst, Rocket Punch, TD. The majority of your sustained damage.

 

Just wanted to point that out.

 

3% aim effects all abilities and I would always say 3% aim would be better than 3% crit

 

 

as for build 2 you would be using rapid shot more due to the increased heat.

 

Across MMOs crit is generally a very poor DPS increase unless your build has a major DPS booster that relies on abilities criting (like a fire mage in WOW)

 

 

Im also thinking that 6% aim would be better than 6% crit on fire damage

Edited February 4, 2012 by Eroex

[Dekai]

Well, easy way to test, which is what I did with my guilds patience, is to do EV NM/HM with you on a Marauder. Normal mode works too, but with your stats I'm quite sure you're on NM as well.

 

Run a TUD(Time until death), 10 runs with each spec. Best I can honestly say since we've not combat logs or ways to get metrics. My fastest kills were as 4/6/31, my PvP spec. Rotating in a TD instead of a Rocket Punch when up to save on heat.

[Eroex]

Well, easy way to test, which is what I did with my guilds patience, is to do EV NM/HM with you on a Marauder. Normal mode works too, but with your stats I'm quite sure you're on NM as well.

 

Run a TUD(Time until death), 10 runs with each spec. Best I can honestly say since we've not combat logs or ways to get metrics. My fastest kills were as 4/6/31, my PvP spec. Rotating in a TD instead of a Rocket Punch when up to save on heat.

 

Why a rocket punch and not a flame burst?

 

Shouldnt RP TD and RS be on CD as much as possible with that build?

Edited February 4, 2012 by Eroex

[Dekai]

You know... I should try that next week... Silly me never thought about dropping Flame Burst instead...

[Kothakk]

Well, easy way to test, which is what I did with my guilds patience, is to do EV NM/HM with you on a Marauder. Normal mode works too, but with your stats I'm quite sure you're on NM as well.

 

Run a TUD(Time until death), 10 runs with each spec. Best I can honestly say since we've not combat logs or ways to get metrics. My fastest kills were as 4/6/31, my PvP spec. Rotating in a TD instead of a Rocket Punch when up to save on heat.

 

Here's a question. How are your rotation in PvE? And how does the pyro damage compare to other melee classes, yes i count it as an melee class for raiding, for instance the mara? I feel i have good burst damage for PvP, but im not sure (due to no combat log) to see how good my damage is PvE. Ive been looking around for a good discussion/tip when it comes to powertech-pyrotech damage in pve. Ive been running 4/6/31.

 

What gear are you using? How is your stats looking? Rotation? (feel free to PM)

[Eroex]

Here's a question. How are your rotation in PvE? And how does the pyro damage compare to other melee classes, yes i count it as an melee class for raiding, for instance the mara? I feel i have good burst damage for PvP, but im not sure (due to no combat log) to see how good my damage is PvE. Ive been looking around for a good discussion/tip when it comes to powertech-pyrotech damage in pve. Ive been running 4/6/31.

 

What gear are you using? How is your stats looking? Rotation? (feel free to PM)

 

I would have to say its one of the top melee DPS.

 

just keep TD, RS and RP on cooldown, your incendiary dot on the target unload or flame burst when every thing is on CD and don't go over 39 heat. If your next attack will take you to 40+ heat use rapid shots unless its a burn phase and you have your vent heat up.

 

Its kind of a pain to use some times because of the minimum range but death from above is a good DPS increase it seems.

[Kothakk]

I would have to say its one of the top melee DPS.

 

just keep TD, RS and RP on cooldown, your incendiary dot on the target unload or flame burst when every thing is on CD and don't go over 39 heat. If your next attack will take you to 40+ heat use rapid shots unless its a burn phase and you have your vent heat up.

 

Its kind of a pain to use some times because of the minimum range but death from above is a good DPS increase it seems.

 

Hmm ok so the key is the 40 heat then. Got it, ops night tomorrow

[theangryllama]

4/6/31

3% crit is better than the 2% fire damage or 3% rail shot damage of 5/5/31

 

8/6/27 is close. I think morningmasumes spreadsheet had it at only 15dps lower... only real thing we have to judge pure tank n spank dps off with no visible combat log. Interesting to see how scaling plays a part in this as it comes down to losing bonus damage from burnout and TD vs bonus damage from 9% aim... in both builds you still take the 3% crit and you give up top tier pyro talents to pick up that aim bonus because the crit really is that good

 

At least in my limited experience in flashpoints thermal detonator is a wonderful ability. Think of every time you have to move out of melee range or run over to an add on the other side of the room you can throw a detonator on it for a chunk of damage. Of course YMMV in ops as i havent poked my head in there yet (we only came over with about 10 of us and with holidays just winding down people arent 50 yet)

[Eroex]

4/6/31

3% crit is better than the 2% fire damage or 3% rail shot damage of 5/5/31

 

8/6/27 is close. I think morningmasumes spreadsheet had it at only 15dps lower... only real thing we have to judge pure tank n spank dps off with no visible combat log. Interesting to see how scaling plays a part in this as it comes down to losing bonus damage from burnout and TD vs bonus damage from 9% aim... in both builds you still take the 3% crit and you give up top tier pyro talents to pick up that aim bonus because the crit really is that good

 

At least in my limited experience in flashpoints thermal detonator is a wonderful ability. Think of every time you have to move out of melee range or run over to an add on the other side of the room you can throw a detonator on it for a chunk of damage. Of course YMMV in ops as i havent poked my head in there yet (we only came over with about 10 of us and with holidays just winding down people arent 50 yet)

 

How is crit "really that good" Pure DPS increases have always been better than crit across all MMOs including this one. The only thing we can proc from crit is thermal sensor. Proper rotation makes that OK at best.

 

Crit is a random chance, to do a little extra damage. Base damage increases will increase all of your damage including crits.

 

The only way ill be convinced that crit "really is that good" would be a combat log or some solid math on it.

 

the massive problem with morningmasumes spreadsheet is the fact that he only has 1227 aim... You can even see the value on aim over crit being much higher. so the difference when you scale it up would be much different.

 

I would like to be able to imput my stats into this but I don't see the link to the spread sheet.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=210530

 

Oh and btw hes using 8/5/28 not 8/6/27

"This build uses Flame Thrower on cooldown as a sustitute of Thermal Detonator." Would you do that? its seems like huge heat increase for a tiny gain, if its a gain at all. Its also extremely situational.

 

I want to see the stats on 7/3/31 also.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Eroex

[mb-watson]

I want to see the stats on 7/3/31 also.

 

^ this

[ericdjobs]

Do you really think the 6% crit for flame effects is worth it over the reduced cooldown on TSO (which basically means more IMs)

 

Currently running 8/3/30 but thinking about the switch, let me know

 

I really think TD sucks because of heat management. Using TD I have to rapid shots a LOT more, whereas if I leave it out of my rotation completely I find myself rarely using rapid shots.

Edited February 8, 2012 by ericdjobs

[Dharagada]

Do you really think the 6% crit for flame effects is worth it over the reduced cooldown on TSO (which basically means more IMs)

 

Currently running 8/3/30 but thinking about the switch, let me know

 

I really think TD sucks because of heat management. Using TD I have to rapid shots a LOT more, whereas if I leave it out of my rotation completely I find myself rarely using rapid shots.

 

I don't see how you would have to use rapid shots "a lot more"? Perhaps slightly more, but you are basically trading the chance for a free proc of a rail shot vs. the guaranteed blast off the TD by subbing in TD vs a flame burst/rocket punch every 15 seconds, and I agree with replacing the flame burst with the TD rather than the rocket punch.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Dharagada

[ericdjobs]

I don't see how you would have to use rapid shots "a lot more"? Perhaps slightly more, but you are basically trading the chance for a free proc of a rail shot vs. the guaranteed blast off the TD by subbing in TD vs a flame burst/rocket punch every 15 seconds, and I agree with replacing the flame burst with the TD rather than the rocket punch.

 

But you're not taking into account the damage missed.

 

TD is kinetic, mitigated by armor. FB is elemental, plus it procs CGC which ticks immediately (1k crit, 500-600 hit) so... Flame Burst does about 1100 base damage for me... TD does about 2k

 

So, let's assume NO crits

Using flame burst, I get 1100 Elemental damage from the burst, and 500 from the CGC tick; You could say CGC will be ticking anyways, maybe.. so let's say 1100 Elemental damage and a 30% chance for completely free 2k-5k plus venting 8 heat

 

TD hits for 2k, let's assume 30% reduction from armor, 1600. No chance for free damage. No chance to vent any heat.

 

It might be a very small gain in damage, but is it worth it? Have to remember flame burst has a higher base critical from talents, as well as the DoTs.. then again, TD DOES get a 30% increase to the crit multiplier...

 

It's hard to figure out what's better without parses, I agree, but right now i'd rather just take the flat 3% aim.

[Dharagada]

But you're not taking into account the damage missed.

 

TD is kinetic, mitigated by armor. FB is elemental, plus it procs CGC which ticks immediately (1k crit, 500-600 hit) so... Flame Burst does about 1100 base damage for me... TD does about 2k

 

So, let's assume NO crits

Using flame burst, I get 1100 Elemental damage from the burst, and 500 from the CGC tick; You could say CGC will be ticking anyways, maybe.. so let's say 1100 Elemental damage and a 30% chance for completely free 2k-5k plus venting 8 heat

 

TD hits for 2k, let's assume 30% reduction from armor, 1600. No chance for free damage. No chance to vent any heat.

 

It might be a very small gain in damage, but is it worth it? Have to remember flame burst has a higher base critical from talents, as well as the DoTs.. then again, TD DOES get a 30% increase to the crit multiplier...

 

It's hard to figure out what's better without parses, I agree, but right now i'd rather just take the flat 3% aim.

 

See I'm not seeing my TD hit as weak as that.

 

My TD (and I'll try and pay more attention) seems to be hitting much harder than my flame burst (including the tick from the cylinder).

 

Now certainly I agree flame burst + free rail shot is more powerful than TD, but as mentioned it's a 30% chance at a rail shot proc vs. the direct damage from the TD.

 

As you say though the whole thing is kind of hard to judge till we a working log, wouldn't be terribly surprised to find the whole thing is a wash at the end though.

[Eroex]

See I'm not seeing my TD hit as weak as that.

 

My TD (and I'll try and pay more attention) seems to be hitting much harder than my flame burst (including the tick from the cylinder).

 

Now certainly I agree flame burst + free rail shot is more powerful than TD, but as mentioned it's a 30% chance at a rail shot proc vs. the direct damage from the TD.

 

As you say though the whole thing is kind of hard to judge till we a working log, wouldn't be terribly surprised to find the whole thing is a wash at the end though.

 

Heres the issue, TD doesnt proc railshots

 

if you spec TD you give up 9% aim. So all of your other skills will hit for less.

 

TD does in fact do more damage than flame burst but the damage difference overall is significant.

 

MorningMusume was using a little over 1200 aim for his testing, i have over 1900 aim. if the DPS difference between 8 5 28 and 4 6 31 is 15 DPS think about how much the gap closed, or that the Non TD spec would surpass the spec with TD because of scaling.