Darkycle Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Assassin's Training is not functioning properly and does not increase the damage dealt by Shock. Who else would like to see this fixed, So our shock can hit for over 4k constatly like jedi's project! Please bioware fix , People sign this forum maybe they will sticky it and read it.. get enough signutares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstralFire Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) 1) Yes, Assassin's Training is not working as described. 2) No, Shadow's Training is not working either, so it is not making those giant boulders hit harder than your mini lightning. Edited February 4, 2012 by AstralFire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReFlexionn Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) game is in beta, it will be fixed once the real game comes out Edited February 4, 2012 by ReFlexionn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grometsc Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) Assassin's Training is not functioning properly and does not increase the damage dealt by Shock. Who else would like to see this fixed, So our shock can hit for over 4k constatly like jedi's project! Please bioware fix , People sign this forum maybe they will sticky it and read it.. get enough signutares I expected yours to actually work...but it does not. Consular Project http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r23/grometsc/swtor2012-02-0317-33-26-23.jpg Shadow Project http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r23/grometsc/swtor2012-02-0317-37-08-72.jpg Sith Shock http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r23/grometsc/swtor2012-02-0411-11-17-78.jpg Assassin Shock http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r23/grometsc/swtor2012-02-0411-14-28-63.jpg Edited February 4, 2012 by Grometsc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkycle Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 Still want it fixed for raiding.!How hard could it be they should fix it next nerf to our tank tree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pijinz Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 game is in beta, it will be fixed once the real game comes out I lol'd. But more seriously, Shock is already a big chunk of damage. Wouldn't fixing this push it over the top? Even so, Bioware could still change our passive to be something else, maybe something that would help Deception/Madness with survivability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstralFire Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Many of the buffs to Project in the trees came later down the pipeline in beta so it's entirely possible they've forgotten about this passive and have been balancing Shadows without consideration to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNorik Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 It is applying its damage properly to shock, it makes shock's base damage by 25%. Take off all your armor to see shocks base damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grometsc Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) It is applying its damage properly to shock, it makes shock's base damage by 25%. Take off all your armor to see shocks base damage. Really? Since you didnt bother looking at the links above Sith Shock http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r23/grometsc/swtor2012-02-0411-11-17-78.jpg Assassin Shock http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r23/grometsc/swtor2012-02-0411-14-28-63.jpg Edited February 4, 2012 by Grometsc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxification Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I don't know who said shocks damage was fine... Without buffs from your talents the skill is complete and utter garbage Shock- 45 force cost, 6 second cooldown deals 1.25 times the damage over saber strike than thrash. = 125% benefit for 33 force cost Thrash- 25 force cost, 0 cooldown deals efficient damage = 100% benefit for 13 force cost Shock = 3.8% benefit per force cost Thrash = 7.7% benefit per force cost Shock is complete and utter trash, there's almost no reason to use the skill, except for minimal spike damage and the fact that it has 10 range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pijinz Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 ^What sort of a spec doesn't have any talents boosting Shock? Can't say I've ever run the numbers on a talentless scenario, but in any realistic case with Chain Shock, Torment, then either Energize + Electrify or Induction + Voltaic you'll have Shock way above Thrash. Add another 30% on top and you can be into silly numbers. I think AstralFire is right that we were balanced according to AT being broken. Fixing it now would require a nerf somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mapex Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 In beta this seemed to be working fine. Can you guys test the abilities on creatures instead of rely on errorprone tooltips? I'm not saying I don't believe you guys but tooltips have almost always been incorrect throughout every stage of this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pijinz Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Hmmm, I did some testing, but it's inconclusive without a similar study done by a Sorc. There's definitely a discrepancy between the tooltip and the actual damage, though less than 25% (about 18.59% if I'm right). If you see on Torhead there are four different formulas listed for Shock. The second highest formula agrees exactly with the tooltip (accounting for +15% from Electrify). The highest formula agrees with what I see in game (again with the +15%). Details: Spec is http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rIMokrskbsZZf0cM.1 Since Chain Shocks are visually obvious and I wasn't proccing Energize (though crits are easily dealt with anyway) the only added bonus I needed to worry about was Electrify. Force bonus damage was 436.8, Surge% was the base +50%. Tooltips listed Shock at 1035-1109 and Force Lightning at 1889. Following the second formula from Torhead gives: Ability Damage Min = 1.56 * 436.8 + 0.136 * 1610 = 900.368 Ability Damage Max = 1.56 * 436.8 + 0.176 * 1610 = 964.768 Multiplying by the 1.15 from Electrify gives 1035.4232 - 1109.4832, which is spot on. For reference, the higher formula would give 1073.73 - 1138.1 before Electrify and 1234.7895 - 1308.815 after. Same thing for Force Lightning (only one formula this time) we have: Damage = 0.79 * 436.8 + 0.079 * 1610 = 472.262 With four ticks this gives 1889.048, again spot on. I went into a lower level dungeon, and opened with Force Lightning against a target. Since this does the same damage per tick without variance (barring crits), I could use this to calculate the targets mitigation from armour. I then used Shock repeatedly till the target fell and noted the damage each time. First Target: Force Lightning gave 408 per tick, putting armour at around 13.56%. Shock Damage (normal): 1093 1102 1117 1080 1097 1071 1078 1117 Shock Damage (crit): 1671 = 1114 normal 1654 = 1102.6 normal 1670 = 1113.3 normal Second Target: Force Lightning gave 389 per tick, putting armour at around 17.58%. Shock Damage (normal): 1019 1019 1034 1054 1035 1034 1066 1028 1043 1071 1059 1070 1063 Shock Damage (crit): 1597 = 1064.6 normal 1606 = 1070.6 normal 1583 = 1055.3 normal In both cases the damage was consistent with [1234.7895 - 1308.815] * (1 - armour) and contained entries outside the range of [1035.4232 - 1109.4832] * 1.25 * (1 - armour). Follow up: What I need to know now is which formula is used by Sorcs. If it's the lower one, then Assassin's Training is providing a bonus, though less than the listed +25%. If they use the higher formula, then Assassin's Training isn't working at all. If somebody has a level 50 Sorc, they can help me finish this off. What I need to know is: Spec (in case there are any extra modifiers on Shock and Force Lightning) Force bonus damage (top most entry under Force on your character sheet) Surge% (if you're going to include crits) Tooltip listed damage for Shock Tooltip listed damage for Force Lightning Then, do as I did. Open with Force Lightning against a target, and note the damage per tick (non-crit). Then use Shock repeatedly till dead and jot down the damage each time (crits are fine to include so long as I have your Surge%). Bonus win if you can get me figures for a few different targets. Lower level heroics and dungeons are useful testing grounds, as you should be invulnerable due to the defence scaling, but the mobs still have a good amount of HP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grometsc Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Hmmm, I did some testing, but it's inconclusive without a similar study done by a Sorc. There's definitely a discrepancy between the tooltip and the actual damage, though less than 25% (about 18.59% if I'm right). Remove all your gear Hit mob with project/shock Sorc/Sage remove all gear Hit mob with project/shock =same dmg done. I know its hard to imagine....but doing it with gear your adding variables of bonus dmg into the mix, different willpowers etc etc In the end we are talking about 25% of BASE dmg....not 25% of total dmg. Base dmg is around 350'ish IRC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pijinz Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Remove all your gear Hit mob with project/shock Sorc/Sage remove all gear Hit mob with project/shock =same dmg done. I know its hard to imagine....but doing it with gear your adding variables of bonus dmg into the mix, different willpowers etc etc In the end we are talking about 25% of BASE dmg....not 25% of total dmg. Base dmg is around 350'ish IRC Naked or not, give me the numbers. All I've seen from Sorc/Sage is a tooltip, which looks to be out by ~18.59% for Sins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grometsc Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) Naked or not, give me the numbers. All I've seen from Sorc/Sage is a tooltip, which looks to be out by ~18.59% for Sins. I would...but canceled and deleted game from PC It was the same for sage/shadow....my only question was did it work for Assassin cause honestly I figured it would (would be fitting)...so I leveled a sith up just to see. And naked or not makes a HUGE difference...since we are talking roughly 50 or so dmg unless each rank gives 25% base dmg (which again would not be op'ing) Edited February 5, 2012 by Grometsc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pijinz Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) And naked or not makes a HUGE difference...since we are talking roughly 50 or so dmg unless each rank gives 25% base dmg (which again would not be op'ing) Have you considered that being naked reduces the effects of Assassin's Training thereby making it harder to detect? If what I suspect is true, and that Shock is simply using the wrong formula for the tooltip, at 0 Force Bonus the difference would be less than 50 (Edit: and that's at cap; if you're talking two naked level 10s then there might not be any difference). Increase Force Bonus up to my 436.8 and the difference is over 200. Took me a while to find, but there're a few posts on Sithwarrior about this: http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-SWTOR-formula-list?pid=10746#pid10746 This confirms what I was thinking. So unless anybody wants to show me numbers that prove otherwise, as far as I'm concerned, the answer is as follows: There are two seperate tooltip errors. First, the tooltip for Shock shows the damage before Assassin's Training has been applied. Second, the tooltip for Assassin's Training is inaccurate, as the damage is increased by 185/156, around 18.59%, not the advertised 25%. Edited February 5, 2012 by Pijinz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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