richardya Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Sorc is currently the only class I have issues with. I am looking for tips. It could be they just have our number because of the snare and our close range limits but any advice would be a help. Essentially they start at max range w force lightning and i slowly walk towards them while taking damage. If I stun (ours is 30M) they can break it. When I get close they AE knockback me before I can low slash. More force lightning, if I get close again they stun, I break and now we start the fight and our rotation but I am at a huge HP disadvantage and they have the bubble. They also get a channel ability in as part of a rotation but what I described above is essentially the fight. It is pretty near impossible to get our rotation off as it starts with our 4M ability. If I start using the 10M abilities they are underpowered without circling shadows etc. The other thing is force cloak seems to fail when I am in force lightning hell as well. Force speed is shutdown when snared as well. I was thinking maybe to start off with Force Lift? If they break it then I stun? Have not tried it as I just thought of it now. I am generally (see another thread) against this ability due to it's cast time but maybe here it is useful. After the 2 seconds I can close the range. Edited February 3, 2012 by richardya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstralFire Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Which specialization and level are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardya Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Infiltration and I just got my last two pieces of champ yesterday. I am now fully champ but for discussion point assume my opponent is similar gear level. I did the standard build except instead of upheaval I went to the 3% endurance on the left and I took the 30% AE reduction instead of something in the middle tree, I forget what. Edited February 3, 2012 by richardya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethroin Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 23/0/18. Sorcs are possibly the easiest thing for me. Pull, non stealth kick, force speed w/ root break... 45 second CD on lol-cleanse-lol-resist-lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardya Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) 23/0/18. Sorcs are possibly the easiest thing for me. Pull, non stealth kick, force speed w/ root break... 45 second CD on lol-cleanse-lol-resist-lol. Yep, that build has their number, (pull and your speed breaks movement impairments) I don't have either of those abilities. Again, if one spec has my number I am cool with it, just curious if I am missing anything. I do pretty well vs everyone else. Edited February 3, 2012 by richardya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethroin Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Infiltration and I just got my last two pieces of champ yesterday. I am now fully champ but for discussion point assume my opponent is similar gear level. I did the standard build except instead of upheaval I went to the 3% endurance on the left and I took the 30% AE reduction instead of something, I forget what. You took 3% more endurance over 45% chance to deal 50% more damage on your most damaging ability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethroin Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I'm assuming that you're fighting a DPS sorc, as the healing kind is very weak 1v1, they just kinda try to survive. What would be the problem with Cleanse > Force Cloak > wait 20-40 sec > Open from 0m? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardya Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) You took 3% more endurance over 45% chance to deal 50% more damage on your most damaging ability? The way I figure. If project is 25% of our damage. And Upheaval is a 45% chance to deal an additional 50%, then (45% of 50% of 25%) comes to an 6% total damage gain. I am a big believer in keeping my HP as high as possible to prevent getting focused on. The figure above assumes I constantly running the standard rotation, sometimes I am just CS and then finisher, sometimes I Shadow Strike so I am not sure it's a full 6%. If I was PvE, I would use upheaval hands down. Also, my number of total damage of project being 25% of our total damage is obviously a guess. Edited February 3, 2012 by richardya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardya Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 I'm assuming that you're fighting a DPS sorc, as the healing kind is very weak 1v1, they just kinda try to survive. What would be the problem with Cleanse > Force Cloak > wait 20-40 sec > Open from 0m? Cleanse forcecloak would sort of need to be instantaneously cast together. In my experience, force lightning is the one time I have a low success rate with it. (Cleanse you mean resilience I assume) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstralFire Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Infiltration and I just got my last two pieces of champ yesterday. I am now fully champ but for discussion point assume my opponent is similar gear level. I did the standard build except instead of upheaval I went to the 3% endurance on the left and I took the 30% AE reduction instead of something, I forget what. Should have gotten Upheaval, but basically: - If they get the jump on you, when trying to close against TK Throw/F-Lightning, Resilience. - If you get the jump on them, use Resil mid-fight or so. Especially once they have DoTs on you. - Chain your Low Slash into a backstab - During a cast time or channel, Force Cloak --> Spinning Kick --> backstab - Open with Force Slow and keep it up constantly - Synchronize your Breach and Project together - Don't blow Force of Will until you're at white resolve. - Don't use your Force Speed until they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethroin Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 The way I figure. Project is 25% of our damage. And 45% chance to deal an additional 50% then comes to a 6% total damage gain. So yea, I am a big believer in keeping my HP as high as possible to prevent getting focused on. The figure above assumes I constantly running the rotation, sometimes I am CS and then finisher, sometimes I Shadow Strike so I am not sure it's a full 6%. Also, my number of total damage of project being 25% of our total damage is actually possibly high or low. 3% endurance is like 400 HP at level 5, that's one DOT tick from that sorc. People don't pick targets based on their HP total, I see Surging Charge (Shadow Tech) I hit that sin with everything, I don't care that it has 18k HP if my attacks are critting for 4k. Upheaval makes a big difference in breaking someone's resolve "mentally" they see that they took 6k damage in one second (Project w/ upheaval plus 2DS/CS hits) they think that the next second could contain just as much damage, and they start with evasive maneuvers instead of trying to kill you back. The bottom line: Two Rocks > One Rock + 3% more HP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddmyth Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 even at 18k health 3% endurance is 540 HP. Upheaval can hit for upwards of 1.5k per hit as Infiltration. There is nothing in the kinetic tree worth giving up that much possible burst for. 2/31/8 is the burst infil spec. The 2 in Kinetic should go in for 6% armor pen and not 6% CS damage. Armor pen will do more damage over a single fight than CS damage does over 2 fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardya Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Should have gotten Upheaval, but basically: - If they get the jump on you, when trying to close against TK Throw/F-Lightning, Resilience. - If you get the jump on them, use Resil mid-fight or so. Especially once they have DoTs on you. - Chain your Low Slash into a backstab - During a cast time or channel, Force Cloak --> Spinning Kick --> backstab - Open with Force Slow and keep it up constantly - Synchronize your Breach and Project together - Don't blow Force of Will until you're at white resolve. - Don't use your Force Speed until they do. Astral, I appreciate everything you do, you do great work. Low slash + backstab and your other points are spot on, I will try the FC-SK idea too, my issue is closing that gap. My follow up question, if you are caught in force lightning resilience will totally break the snare and I can close the gap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakantanka Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 3% endurance is what 500HP in champ gear, this is one of the worst talents to get in any build IMO, even for PvE tanking. Timing Resilence is key when fighting Sorcs, although I found Kinetic hybrid builds much easier because of the passive mitigation to their energy attacks along with force pull. As a pure Infiltration their bubbles seemed to negate a lot of my burst advantage while they did considerably more damage to me, while Kinetic can stay alive longer hitting them with a constant stream of damage and prevent them from getting away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardya Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) even at 18k health 3% endurance is 540 HP. Upheaval can hit for upwards of 1.5k per hit as Infiltration. There is nothing in the kinetic tree worth giving up that much possible burst for. 2/31/8 is the burst infil spec. The 2 in Kinetic should go in for 6% armor pen and not 6% CS damage. Armor pen will do more damage over a single fight than CS damage does over 2 fights. I did my build when I was behind in gear, I have since caught up and you are probably right. I did take the armor penetration. I did other defensive stuff like the reduce damage taken (Jedi Resistance) as well in Balance. Now that my gear has caught up I will eventually switch back to upheaval. I was just doing really good damage even after making these sacrifices. Between WZ's I generally mess around in Ilum. When Central Assault is Imperial controlled I love stealthing in and picking one of them off. I end up finishing the fight with 2 on me and still burst my target down pretty fast before cloaking. (I kill oneand cloak, not two) I think the upheaval spec is the best spec but for some reason I "feel" like the 3% endurance combined with the damage reduction and AE reduction make a addition and my damage is still high. You guys make sense, why get 500 HP when you can do 1500 HP more damage? It's basic math. What I am doing should not work. Edited February 3, 2012 by richardya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstralFire Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Astral, I appreciate everything you do, you do great work. Low slash + backstab and your other points are spot on, I will try the FC-SK idea too, my issue is closing that gap. My follow up question, if you are caught in force lightning resilience will totally break the snare and I can close the gap? Happy to help. =) Yes, Resilience is basically a giant golden finger to Sages and Sorcerers while it is up - it removes and grants immunity to all of their relevant abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kai-Eurah-Tird Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Resilience also makes you immune to Tracer Missile/Grav round. But use it wisely. ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardya Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 It seems my main issue is I did not fully understand the ability which is kind of sad because I used to use it before picking an advanced class. (Well, the good guy version) Force Lightning Instant Force: 30 Cooldown: 6s Range: 10 m Deals 4011 energy damage to the target over the duration of the effect. Also slows the movement speed of the target by 50% and immobilizes weak and standard enemies. The ability is instant but has a duration. This is why we see the cast bar. So the damage is ticking but the snare is only cast on the initial hit. It's not a dot that you cast and then the effect stays, it's like a perpetual nuke that is channeled. I assume a "smart sorc" if he saw I cleansed/Resiliensed would interrupt himself and recast the same ability to resnare me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstralFire Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Even if he recasted while Resilience was still up, you would still be immune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardya Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Even if he recasted while Resilience was still up, you would still be immune. Oh yea, the resist aspect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kai-Eurah-Tird Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Sorc is currently the only class I have issues with. I am looking for tips. It could be they just have our number because of the snare and our close range limits but any advice would be a help. Essentially they start at max range w force lightning and i slowly walk towards them while taking damage. If I stun (ours is 30M) they can break it. When I get close they AE knockback me before I can low slash. More force lightning, if I get close again they stun, I break and now we start the fight and our rotation but I am at a huge HP disadvantage and they have the bubble. They also get a channel ability in as part of a rotation but what I described above is essentially the fight. It is pretty near impossible to get our rotation off as it starts with our 4M ability. If I start using the 10M abilities they are underpowered without circling shadows etc. The other thing is force cloak seems to fail when I am in force lightning hell as well. Force speed is shutdown when snared as well. I was thinking maybe to start off with Force Lift? If they break it then I stun? Have not tried it as I just thought of it now. I am generally (see another thread) against this ability due to it's cast time but maybe here it is useful. After the 2 seconds I can close the range. In that situation, I would turn the other way hit sprint, force cloak, resilence (if there are dots on me) and black out. As infiltration spec it is always best to have time to prepare and get the jump on your target. Come back 30 seconds later and just line up the usual infiltration rotation on that sorc and you win. Walking towards a sorce while he's channeling lightning is always a bad idea, right behind running towards an entrenched sniper. If you are 31/0/10 or 23/0/18. You can pull him in a give him a thrashing, all the way interupting and slowing him down. As Kinetic combat, you have more tools to counter the sorc's CC. Edited February 3, 2012 by Kai-Eurah-Tird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noleader Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Make sure you use your snare ability on them. Even if they stun you or snare you they are moving no faster then you and thus can't escape your range. If they use speed then pop yours or hit them with force stun to stop them in their tracks. If their resolve bar is full use vanish, even if you have a dot on you, so they lose their target and have to manually retarget you before you reach them. To kill sorcs you have to focus more on controlling the fight because when it comes down to it you will not beat them in raw power when they are focusing on power and control themselves. If you do it right (and someone else is not there loading up their resolve bar) you should be able to kill a sorc before they have a chance to cast more then 3 spells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinnyFox Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 How to kill sorcerers? You hit them until they die. They're starting at max range? You're doing it wrong. Shadows have stealth. Why are you running around without stealth? They're just healing themselves up? You have so many interrupt abilities they shouldn't be able to pull off a heal. They won't outdamage you just by spamming force lightning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardya Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) They're starting at max range? You're doing it wrong. Shadows have stealth.Why are you running around without stealth? Usually I am hitting someone else. You can not stealth in combat and when you finish an opponent, you can not immediately go into stealth. There have been millions of times a sorc has hit me from 30M range. Edited February 3, 2012 by richardya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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