RE chance being raised - big mistake

[Xtrema]

So RE chance will be raised in the next major content patch. This is a big mistake.

 

While the chance to RE an item is low and the randomness leads to many failed tries in a row, increasing the chance will just break the economy.

 

Currently there is an abundance of level 49 artifacts on the GHN. And while most of them are useless, even good ones aren't sold for a decent price.

 

As a Cybertech I mainly sell earpieces. I have 4 good recipes (3 bad ones) and always have two of each on the GHN. I charge 77k, making a decent profit if they sell. I sell maybe 1 a day. or less.

 

Other parts of my craft, like ship parts, wherre the schmatics are easily obtained, aren't profitable. Thhe items are as expensive as the materials they are made of.

 

And this will happen with all items as soon as RE becomes easy. An abundance of offers lowering the prices until crafting gets useless.

 

A good alternative is to remove the "you already know that" logic and to increase the RE chance by a small amount (like 0.1 %) for each try, to remove the possibility of 200 REs without success.

 

I think the change will just remove long term motivation in crafting.

 

It really depends how they plan to tweak the RE chance, if it's significant then I totally agree, if it's just a small increase then we SHOULD be okay...but you're right if it's significant it will only flood the market with artifacts and depreciate all their value. Long term there pretty much won't be truly 'rare' or 'elite' items anymore because everyone will have it. People trolling/complaining about the RE chances are just kids that need to have everything NOW. I'm not saying this to protect my own profession, I'm only a casual gamer that has merely 5 artifact earpieces (only 1 good, havent even started selling yet), and haven't even hit 50 with my main. The economy is already shaky at best, if it's a big change, it will cause inflation for items japan yen-style.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Xtrema

[Megaphys]

It really depends how they plan to tweak the RE chance, if it's significant then I totally agree, if it's just a small increase then we SHOULD be okay...but you're right if it's significant it will only flood the market with artifacts and depreciate all their value. Long term there pretty much won't be truly 'rare' or 'elite' items anymore because everyone will have it. People trolling/complaining about the RE chances are just kids that need to have everything NOW. I'm not saying this to protect my own profession, I'm only a casual gamer that has merely 5 artifact earpieces (only 1 good, havent even started selling yet), and haven't even hit 50 with my main. The economy is already shaky at best, if it's a big change, it will cause inflation for items japan yen-style.

 

because you havent really looked, you are going on your own assumptions about the system. The issue is, purple mods while leveling arent worth a ton, becuase you level fast, and at cap they are obtainable by other means for almost every item and craft, in a way that is much easier than it is to get in pure time.

 

every purple needs purple level items to be gathered, the only way to obtain these is to either do repeated mission runs, or to RE a purple item and get lucky, or to have it drop from content.

 

at level 400 the missions that have a chance of procuring these have 1 hour long wait times, and low chance, if you can get the missions from slicing or on the gtn you can guarantee it BUT those themselves come from a random chance from a random long time mission so it doesnt change the over all equation much.

 

 

Point is, even aside from the endless REs it is faster time wise to get commendations, run a hardmode flashpoint or etc to put the epics in the game.

 

So while you are looking at your crafters as competition in fact you are competing with comedndations and raiding and even without RE at all, they can bring the items into game in less actual time.

 

Even if you could RE fast, you still couldnt mass produce items because the purple mats required limits the amount that can exist at one time, and that amount is much smaller than getting these gears outside of crafting.

 

The thing stopping items from flooding the market is not RE its purple level materials.

 

 

Essentially crafters are mostly just messing around with each other, and by and large most of the rest of the community is getting their gear from quests, hardmodes, and commendations.

[Xtrema]

because you havent really looked, you are going on your own assumptions about the system. The issue is, purple mods while leveling arent worth a ton, becuase you level fast, and at cap they are obtainable by other means for almost every item and craft, in a way that is much easier than it is to get in pure time.

 

every purple needs purple level items to be gathered, the only way to obtain these is to either do repeated mission runs, or to RE a purple item and get lucky, or to have it drop from content.

 

at level 400 the missions that have a chance of procuring these have 1 hour long wait times, and low chance, if you can get the missions from slicing or on the gtn you can guarantee it BUT those themselves come from a random chance from a random long time mission so it doesnt change the over all equation much.

 

 

Point is, even aside from the endless REs it is faster time wise to get commendations, run a hardmode flashpoint or etc to put the epics in the game.

 

So while you are looking at your crafters as competition in fact you are competing with comedndations and raiding and even without RE at all, they can bring the items into game in less actual time.

 

Even if you could RE fast, you still couldnt mass produce items because the purple mats required limits the amount that can exist at one time, and that amount is much smaller than getting these gears outside of crafting.

 

The thing stopping items from flooding the market is not RE its purple level materials.

 

 

Essentially crafters are mostly just messing around with each other, and by and large most of the rest of the community is getting their gear from quests, hardmodes, and commendations.

 

hmm, I wasn't really talking about mods, more particularly the stuff that sells even for players at end game content, ie earpieces and ship parts for cybertech, which I am 400 at. And I have seen it happen for the ship parts, grade 4 pieces go from 20k to as low as 6k. When I first started making Armek Ship armor they were going for 60k, now I see it for as low as 20k. While I agree that purple mats are hard to find, you can also get lucky like I did this week (I normally play late night for 2-3hrs/night, and constantly have 1-2 companions on UT grade 6 metal runs), I went from 0 to 21 pieces of mandalorian iron (Vette literally crit every single mission one night lol).

 

Not disagreeing with you because I've had weeks where I only got 2, but it's not just the rarity of purple mats alone, as more ppl pick up the profession there will be more gatherers, imagine someone who plays more than 2-3hrs/day on the kind of luck I had this week. Again it depends how much they tweak the RE chance, point is if everyone that picks up the profession can obtain it, then inflation is inevitable, if it takes effort, time and credits, not everyone is going to put in the work. Purple mats are just one factor, RE chance is another.

[Megaphys]

hmm, I wasn't really talking about mods, more particularly the stuff that sells even for players at end game content, ie earpieces and ship parts for cybertech, which I am 400 at. And I have seen it happen for the ship parts, grade 4 pieces go from 20k to as low as 6k. When I first started making Armek Ship armor they were going for 60k, now I see it for as low as 20k. While I agree that purple mats are hard to find, you can also get lucky like I did this week (I normally play late night for 2-3hrs/night, and constantly have 1-2 companions on UT grade 6 metal runs), I went from 0 to 21 pieces of mandalorian iron (Vette literally crit every single mission one night lol).

 

Not disagreeing with you because I've had weeks where I only got 2, but it's not just the rarity of purple mats alone, as more ppl pick up the profession there will be more gatherers, imagine someone who plays more than 2-3hrs/day on the kind of luck I had this week. Again it depends how much they tweak the RE chance, point is if everyone that picks up the profession can obtain it, then inflation is inevitable, if it takes effort, time and credits, not everyone is going to put in the work. Purple mats are just one factor, RE chance is another.

 

Im just saying, it takes how long to do a hardmode? in one hardmode how many good drops does one get? now keep in mind 1 purple armor drop is dropping the equivalent of the mats for a purple armoring a purple mod and a purple enhancement. aside from this you get other random purples, and this is just one hour. also if you are getting a daily done you are getting credits AND comendations in that same time.

 

fact is one player in a few hours, can get more epic gears not crafting than crafting.

 

Right now there are certain items that have less competition from this, like earpieces, but by and large, the RE chance doesnt put crafting at a respectable clip compared to other forms of getting similar items.

 

If RE doesnt change or schematics dont change, people will continue to abandon and ignore crafting, and the developers will likely put less content into crafting, after all if every hates and ignores crafting, you cant put really cool items into it. people will demand that they can get everything cool from fp or commendations.

[ragamer]

The reasson on why they are increasing RE chance is simple...

 

...They will make it obsolete by focusing on adding DIRECT recipe drops (aka copying WoW "crafting"), so they want that every crafter starts more or less with the same repertory before they immerse themselve in the FP/OP runs seeking the "ultimate recipe drop".

 

Before going on lengthy discussions on what has to be done to really fullfill "the long term goal of a player driven economy" they theoretically are after...

 

...They need to start with the basics...

 

 

ITEM SINKS FOR ALL CRAFTING SKILLS

 

 

Sorry for the caps, but it's so basic that it's simply hilarious seeing the up/downs, caveats and 180º turns they take trying to keep an economy going while they are forgeting the above basic pillar every economy is founded onto.

 

 

So to be even shorter... For as long as EVERY single crafting skill do not have a decent array of desireable item sinks, doesn't matter what you do, your economy will never be "player driven", it will always has to be "Dev Driven" by constantly adding "artificially rare" recipes that will invariable become obsolete over time.

 

 

There is no need to reinvent the wheel... There are VERY solid examples of really working economies all around the MMO "world"... They just insist on copying "glorified loot systems" were the only thing that sinks is the interest and the time of the poor souls that eat the bait of "we have crafting on this MMO"...

 

...And before you ask, yes I have spend considerable resources, I liked the rush to check which RE recipe I got after the "discovery sound", I liked the randomness of the companion/mission system and I have earned considerable money by crafting on this game but... I know perfectly how this is going to end in a few months if the basic founding is not added ASAP.

Edited February 4, 2012 by ragamer

[iResist]

I would like to know where this supposed information the OP is talking about is at, because I can't find anywhere that says from Bioware that they are raising the RE chance.

[ragamer]

I would like to know where this supposed information the OP is talking about is at, because I can't find anywhere that says from Bioware that they are raising the RE chance.

 

You should check "Public Test Server" subforum... There you will have a sneak peak on what's coming, in particular, in a very extensive post of a designer... And no, I'm not linking it on purpose ... Really get there, read a bit and offer your feedback when there is still a chance they hear and change things.

[Amdarius]

Agree with the OP that raising the RE success rate is a bad idea. You shouldn't be able to easily get the artifact level schematics. They should be rare. You don't need each one as you level up - the blues/prototypes are easy to get and plenty good. If you really want the artifact, then work for it.

 

I have done a TON of RE'ing and probably on average have had far worse luck than most. I've got only a few artifact recipes and none of the ultra-artifacts (where you RE the purples that start as blues), even after about 100 attempts on one of the artifacts (that's a lot of rare materials I've thrown away)..

 

But I don't mind. I'm glad it's that way. I don't want everybody to be able to produce every artifact. Can we at least leave *some* challenge in this game? Sheesh - it's already ezmode enough.

[Megaphys]

Agree with the OP that raising the RE success rate is a bad idea. You shouldn't be able to easily get the artifact level schematics. They should be rare. You don't need each one as you level up - the blues/prototypes are easy to get and plenty good. If you really want the artifact, then work for it.

 

I have done a TON of RE'ing and probably on average have had far worse luck than most. I've got only a few artifact recipes and none of the ultra-artifacts (where you RE the purples that start as blues), even after about 100 attempts on one of the artifacts (that's a lot of rare materials I've thrown away)..

 

But I don't mind. I'm glad it's that way. I don't want everybody to be able to produce every artifact. Can we at least leave *some* challenge in this game? Sheesh - it's already ezmode enough.

 

again, you havent really explored the itemization in this game, for most crafts, and most crafted items, at max level it takes literally less time, even if you already have the recipes to produce an item as compared to getting an artifact item outside of crafting. running a purple mission at level 400 takes approx an hour and may not even give you purple materials, the synth itself will probably take an hour itself.

 

Doing a your dailies give you commendations, which you can use to get the same gear.

 

the reason RE needs to go up, is because epics arent rare, and they arent crafter only. Compare it to getting 4 commendations. or running a lashpoint and getting several completed rares per run. spend 1 hour, get 5 epics, money, exp and commendations, craft for 1 hour get blue material.

 

whether one thinks the game needs to have hard to get items is irrelevant, because it is not hard to get epic level items outside of crafting.

[ChaosMarky]

Dunno what happened but RE has been a pain lately after the last patch :0 takes around 25 items just to get a schematic! X.x

[XAubrey]

I'm an armormech and I agree that the current RE percent is fine, although they do need to remove that stupid "you already know it" message.

 

Increasing the RE chance will simply cause item prices to drop even further.

[Light_Valkyrie]

Cool back to everyone having everything.