Assassin changes a welcome sight.

[Jasith]

Induction triggering off assassinate is a welcome and nice little QOL change. I don't have to fit in an extra Voltaic before trying to shock-drop someone now.

 

Agreed. The patch is a fix of broken mechanics and a buff, not a nerf.

[Daystarr]

Lol I seriously find it hard to comprehend where some of you guys are coming from. I play Deception and I'm not evenly decently geared (few Champ stuff with Champ weap and relic) and I have no issues against any class. I am finishing WZs with 350k Dmg done at 320dps. You either can't play or this class just isn't for you.

[Kuvi]

no it doesnt, it was a fix. we arent supposed to stance dance, there is no skill inherit to it. it was an oversight, its like if darkness could dark ward outside of dark charge. there was nothing cool about broken hybrid speccs, having 21 point talents that were vastly superior to end tree talents was stupid and they fixed it. we arent wow warriors.

 

It's like some of you have no clue how the other classes work right now.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Kuvi

[DarthCnox]

Lol I seriously find it hard to comprehend where some of you guys are coming from. I play Deception and I'm not evenly decently geared (few Champ stuff with Champ weap and relic) and I have no issues against any class. I am finishing WZs with 350k Dmg done at 320dps. You either can't play or this class just isn't for you.

 

Could you please FRAPS 2 or 3 of your matches? I'm really interested in seeing this.

[-Pengo-]

Warzone medals are serious business.

[pixelelement]

First off, let me start by saying im in total agreeance that Deception and Madness DPS needs buffed. Now, with that being said, here is why I like the changes, specifically the stance requirements on certain talents.

 

As a Darkness 31/0/10 Assassin tank, I average 8-10 medals a game.

 

2k, 5k, 10k, 50k Protection.

 

10 enemies, 25 enemies.

 

75k damage.

 

Quick-draw Medal.

 

Very seldom i will get the 2.5k hit medal from Assassinate and sometimes i'm lucky to get the Assassin medal for 1v1.

 

Now. DPS spec'd assassin's can throw on Dark charge, throw up guard and easily get the same protection medals, along with getting the 2.5k, 5k hit medal, and 300k damage medal. Not only this, but you are also getting the best part of Assassin defense with no penalty at all. Since defense stats are pretty much useless, aside from Dark Charge of course, you absolutely have zero penalty at all and get the best of both worlds in Assassin defense AND offense. 31 Darkness spec'd assassins are at a huge disadvantage because of this fact. My opinion might feel a little bias, and of course, it's not all about the medals. But if you think about it, you really were getting a huge one up by being able to run dark charge while spec'd into DPS trees.

 

My problem is not with the charges themselves. Adding the 100 FC for swapping saber charges is fine. What I think people are missing is the fact that the Assassin class now has no flexibility. You cant a a have a viable hybrid spec at all. BW may as well assign our skill points based on what tree we pick.

[PringerZ]

My problem is not with the charges themselves. Adding the 100 FC for swapping saber charges is fine. What I think people are missing is the fact that the Assassin class now has no flexibility. You cant a a have a viable hybrid spec at all. BW may as well assign our skill points based on what tree we pick.

 

Almost my thoughts exactly, you're either cookie-cutter 31 point into a tree build, or you're useless; they took out all other alternatives that were viable, and that is what makes most of us mad.

[Astarica]

Flexability doesn't mean the ability to use the best stance (Dark Charge) while being in a tree that's supposed to be completely unrelated to it.

 

The lack of survivailty outside of Dark Charge is a concern, but no you didn't use Dark Charge in hybrid builds to be flexible. It's because it was needed to not die.

[pixelelement]

Almost my thoughts exactly, you're either cookie-cutter 31 point into a tree build, or you're useless; they took out all other alternatives that were viable, and that is what makes most of us mad.

 

A perfect example taking a Darkness Build: Most people will now run a 31/0/10 build. I will myself because I just don't see any other options. What's the alternative?

 

The most creative build I could come up with was a 23/0/18 build but you cant take Raze after 1.1.2 it will not work with DC active. You have the points to make it viable, but because of the restrictions you cant make it work.

 

If they simply added the 100 FC so people cant swap saber changes in the middle of a fight i think that would have been enough. Maybe even add a massive timer like 30mins. I like being creative with build, but you cant be creative with the Assassin class. That IMO is the really issue with these changes.

[DarthRasp]

Seems like many of you guys are reffering to having dark charge active and not allowing us to use some of our better abbilities like assassinate or death field while dark charge is on..? The penalty is only when switching the stance (100 force cost) to something like lightning..? Or am I missing something..?

[kijthae]

First off, let me start by saying im in total agreeance that Deception and Madness DPS needs buffed. Now, with that being said, here is why I like the changes, specifically the stance requirements on certain talents.

 

As a Darkness 31/0/10 Assassin tank, I average 8-10 medals a game.

 

2k, 5k, 10k, 50k Protection.

 

10 enemies, 25 enemies.

 

75k damage.

 

Quick-draw Medal.

 

Very seldom i will get the 2.5k hit medal from Assassinate and sometimes i'm lucky to get the Assassin medal for 1v1.

 

Now. DPS spec'd assassin's can throw on Dark charge, throw up guard and easily get the same protection medals, along with getting the 2.5k, 5k hit medal, and 300k damage medal. Not only this, but you are also getting the best part of Assassin defense with no penalty at all. Since defense stats are pretty much useless, aside from Dark Charge of course, you absolutely have zero penalty at all and get the best of both worlds in Assassin defense AND offense. 31 Darkness spec'd assassins are at a huge disadvantage because of this fact. My opinion might feel a little bias, and of course, it's not all about the medals. But if you think about it, you really were getting a huge one up by being able to run dark charge while spec'd into DPS trees.

 

Medals cant be referance to show class performance.

 

2.5k single heal medal - lvl 11 operative can get it with 1 click. Go to closest fire take damage cast one heal and get medal.

 

protection: Give guard to someone else and slack around the guarded target

 

25 enemies: Prowl around in stealth shot target when they had low health

 

75k damage: Spam aoe

 

75k heal: Take damage from fire and heal yourself

 

3k defenzors: slack around turrets

[DarthCnox]

Seems like many of you guys are reffering to having dark charge active and not allowing us to use some of our better abbilities like assassinate or death field while dark charge is on..? The penalty is only when switching the stance (100 force cost) to something like lightning..? Or am I missing something..?

 

To put it simply (and so another one of my posts doesn't get removed by BW):

1) The Fore cost to switch stances from 50 - 100 is not a huge impact, since spending 50 force in any type of rotation is completely unfeasable. So, they might as well made it a 30 min cooldown or not able to switch in combat. I don't think that this is the thrust of the complaints.

 

2) Induction requiring surging charge. This is a HUGE problem for Darkness/Deception builds. You're in Darkness to get defenses (such as dark ward, being able to use a SHIELD, harness darkness for self healing). You're in deception to hep reduce the cost of shock (which in darkness, they give you talents to cast shock more frequently (the talent that immediately reduces cooldown on shock) but you can't possibly sustain casting shock at that rate without induction. Now, you can't get induction without surging charge, so you're giving up a HUGE amount of durability to gain some DPS (i do not know the numbers).

 

That's pretty much it, but a simple change breaks a lot of things.

 

I don't understand why Sheilds can't be used outside of Dark Charge. But being able to use a shield is one of the primary reasons to be in DC.

 

I think even with this, people with darknes are going to stay darkness because you can't loose out on all the mitigation, and instead go with the madness's chain shock (but you wait, soon chain shock will only proc if you are in lightning charge).

 

I hope this post passes muster with our BW Censor board.

Edited February 3, 2012 by DarthCnox

[pixelelement]

Flexability doesn't mean the ability to use the best stance (Dark Charge) while being in a tree that's supposed to be completely unrelated to it.

 

The lack of survivailty outside of Dark Charge is a concern, but no you didn't use Dark Charge in hybrid builds to be flexible. It's because it was needed to not die.

 

I was a 27/14/0 build m8. I was a tank so DC was always active. My nerf is completely unrelated to your point. My issue is with ability requirements on skills being tied to ANY saber charge. EX: Induction, Raze, and Energize. These are all useful cross class abilities that should be worth reaching for. If the combo was OP then just alter its effect based on the active charge don't just take away the option to make a viable hybrid.

 

Listing to your comments it sounds like the other branches need a little more def (Deception dose have 30% armor buff) Maybe they need a short term bubble like sorcs I don't know. My point is all Hybrid specs are no longer viable for Assassins, and that is very bad game development IMO.

[Astarica]

Induction is not a prerequisite to use Shock if you have HD. In fact, Induction is countetproductive to the range game that deep Darkness possesses and would be rarely used even if it can be obatined for free, just like Exploit Weakness should almost never be used in deep Darkness either even if it can be obtained for free because it means you're forced to get into melee range. Nomrally in Darkness I only get into melee range to Assassinate.

[pixelelement]

To put it simply (and so another one of my posts doesn't get removed by BW):

1) The Fore cost to switch stances from 50 - 100 is not a huge impact, since spending 50 force in any type of rotation is completely unfeasable. So, they might as well made it a 30 min cooldown or not able to switch in combat. I don't think that this is the thrust of the complaints.

 

I don't mind both even. Keep the 100 FC, and a 30min timer, and no use in combat.

 

2) Induction requiring surging charge. This is a HUGE problem for Darkness/Deception builds. You're in Darkness to get defenses (such as dark ward, being able to use a SHIELD, harness darkness for self healing). You're in deception to hep reduce the cost of shock (which in darkness, they give you talents to cast shock more frequently (the talent that immediately reduces cooldown on shock) but you can't possibly sustain casting shock at that rate without induction. Now, you can't get induction without surging charge, so you're giving up a HUGE amount of durability to gain some DPS (i do not know the numbers).

 

I was a 27/14/0 build so this was my nerf as well. I think them adding HD buff to Wither would have been enough I dont understand the need to take this away from Hybrids. You cant have both wither, and Induction.

 

The same goes for the 23/0/18 Hybrid the change to Raze makes this build worthless.

 

I think even with this, people with darknes are going to stay darkness because you can't loose out on all the mitigation, and instead go with the madness's chain shock (but you wait, soon chain shock will only proc if you are in lightning charge).

 

That is the only option I could find as a Darkness build. 31/0/10 build. After 1.1.2 every SI tank on the server will be this or something very close to it.

[DarthCnox]

Induction is not a prerequisite to use Shock if you have HD. In fact, Induction is countetproductive to the range game that deep Darkness possesses and would be rarely used even if it can be obatined for free, just like Exploit Weakness should almost never be used in deep Darkness either even if it can be obtained for free because it means you're forced to get into melee range. Nomrally in Darkness I only get into melee range to Assassinate.

 

Perhaps it is counterproductive to YOUR playstyle, but your playstile (as a range tank assassin?) does not fall in line with the abilities you get DEEP in the darkness tree:

 

1) Spike out of stealth. Can you spike at 30m?

2) Forcepull. That's pull, not push. So you will be in MELEE with the mob, not range.

3) Energize: Procs on thrash and lacerate. Those are melee attacks, last I checked.

 

Contrast that to what? Harness Darkness which, with 3 stacks of energize (which comes from thrash and lacerate, remember) you get a more powerful force lightning. That's your range game. Wither is only 10m. What r"range game that deep Darkness possesses" are you talking about?

 

To the Darkness/Deception, you play in the face of your enemy, you are trying to quickly build energize and critical shocks. Deception makes this manageable. With this change, you're now going to fall back to saber strike a LOT because in order to leverage your Energize procs, you're going to be force starved.

[Krytycal]

500K+ damage is currently doable in full length voidstars with both 0/33/8 and 31/0/10 (and BM gear). The patch will give a slight buff to both of these builds, so their numbers will likely go up.

[DarthCnox]

500K+ damage is currently doable in full length voidstars with both 0/33/8 and 31/0/10 (and BM gear). The patch will give a slight buff to both of these builds, so their numbers will likely go up.

 

Can you please provide 2 or 3 FRAP'd games of you doing this? I'm very interested in seeing this.

[pixelelement]

Induction is not a prerequisite to use Shock if you have HD. In fact, Induction is countetproductive to the range game that deep Darkness possesses and would be rarely used even if it can be obatined for free, just like Exploit Weakness should almost never be used in deep Darkness either even if it can be obtained for free because it means you're forced to get into melee range. Nomrally in Darkness I only get into melee range to Assassinate.

 

This is the big difference between people who use cookie cutter builds, and people who like hybrid builds. You see no use, and others see a very high level for use.

 

Induction makes shock much more practical to use, and thus makes Energize more powerful along with HD. EW is very useful to a class with good CC ability. I make use of both of these abilities all the time or at least I did.

 

Now BW is essentially forcing us to create a cookie cutter build , and THAT is why so many of us are upset.

[Krytycal]

Can you please provide 2 or 3 FRAP'd games of you doing this? I'm very interested in seeing this.

 

I don't have fraps, best I can show you is a screenshot of a Voidstar as a Deception sin.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Krytycal

[DarthCnox]

I don't have fraps, best I can show you is a screenshot of a Voidstar as a Deception sin.

 

No good. We need to see what abilities you are using and the context. If that's all AOE damage, then big deal. If you're somehow mauling everyone, let's see that. If you're critting a lot, we'd like to see that too.

 

Screenshots don't show anything. If you plan to make such enormous claims, you should be able to back it up with some actual proof.

Edited February 3, 2012 by DarthCnox

[Arnathis]

No good. We need to see what abilities you are using and the context. If that's all AOE damage, then big deal. If you're somehow mauling everyone, let's see that. If you're critting a lot, we'd like to see that too.

 

Screenshots don't show anything. If you plan to make such enormous claims, you should be able to back it up with some actual proof.

 

Yea I have to agree. I really could care less if you're just aoe'ing the entire time. I consider myself an above average player and the most single target damage I've ever been able to muster up is 250k ish, and that match I really felt went extremely well. I can't imagine doing twice that amount being remotely possible unless you're just lacerating the entire time.

[Krytycal]

No good. We need to see what abilities you are using and the context. If that's all AOE damage, then big deal. If you're somehow mauling everyone, let's see that. If you're critting a lot, we'd like to see that too.

 

Screenshots don't show anything. If you plan to make such enormous claims, you should be able to back it up with some actual proof.

 

Deception sins don't have any AoEs worth using. If you look at my action bars you'll notice I don't even have an AoE attack bound. All that damage was single target.

 

I don't have to fraps my games to state that assassins can break 500k. I know it because I've done it. If you want to believe me or not that's up to you.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Krytycal

[Astarica]

Building 3 stacks of HD is one of the worst way you can play a Darkness spec until the Wither procs HD in PvP.

 

Spike is only used to interrupt spells for all practical purposes (the stun is too short to be of meaningful value in terms of mitigation). I don't need a second interrupt to deal with non-Commando/Merc healers, and for Commando/Merc you need Electrocute to even have a shot at killing them when they're bubbled.

 

People grossly overrate Energize and end up playing the class much worse than its potential. Then again people overrate Exploit Weakness too. Just because you get a proc to do something, doesn't mean it has to be used.

 

A lot of you just don't get that this game is heavily in favor of ranged. I can get top DPS medal as a level 12 Merc spamming only Power Shots. It's got nothing to do with how good or not the enemy is. It's the fact that ranged DPS gets the ability to hit enemy from a spot where an enemy with shorter range cannot retaliate. While 10m isn't as good as 30m, it's still a lot better than 4m. And here's a rather funny part of this game. KBs only have a range of 4m, but they effectively counter someone with a range of 10m if they land (due to terrain, and some KBs toss you further than 10m). But if you started 10m away, KB no longer works on you. There's a reason why the classes people call OPed are all heavily ranged. While you cannot never be a 30m range DPS, you can definitely hit people from 10m and it's the next best thing.

[PringerZ]

Deception sins don't have any AoEs worth using. If you look at my action bars you'll notice I don't even have an AoE attack bound. All that damage was single target.

 

I don't have to fraps my games to state that assassins can break 500k. I know it because I've done it. If you want to believe me or not that's up to you.

 

I've broken 500k as 23/0/18 and 2/31/8, all it meant was that my team had good healers and the other team had good healers, so I wasn't dying and the enemies were getting healed for a majority of the damage I did.