Exploit punishment.

[Creslan]

I should amend the post and arguement from Exploits to Hacks and outside programs that alter the game client or server side.

 

Speed hacks, stealth hacks, damage hacks so on. These would be the target of the "character deleted" policy.

 

I understand that people have unintentionally used exploits not knowing it was even an exploit, or being told by one GM it was fine, and then told by another that was an exploit. These are not the targets of my original post.

 

The original post was too vague and was made in error.

 

So with that made clear. I would like to suggest a character delete policy for players that are found to be altering the game client in such a way to gain unintended rewards via "hacks". Obviously these infractions were done with full knowledge and intent of the player. So said character should be immediately deleted, and any mail sent within 1 week tracked and the contents destroyed.

 

No warning, no ban, You hack, that character is deleted.

Thoughts?

Edited February 18, 2012 by Creslan

[Creslan]

no one like this? its an awesome idea

[Raximillian]

Bad idea... At the end of the day, BW/EA needs people that pay... If you ban them, they do not pay. So just a slap in the hand is much better than outright deleting their characters and have a good chance of people quitting.

 

They have to keep doing it the way they are doing. Just a suspension, and a patch to fix bugs/exploits.

[renegadeimp]

Suspension for the first 1-2 exploits then full on ban the next time they do it.

[VLAHD]

Sorry rax, but thats bunk....exploiters and hackers affect the game play of all they come in contact with...I like this idea...After the deletion, give them an appeal process to explain why they needed to hack. Honostly, BW doesnt need hackers playing anyway. If your not hacking, you have nothing to worry about, do you? This seems to be a win win for all...Hackers are gone and non-hackers can enjoy the game. Seems like cres's post struck a nerve.

 

 

And, i believe cres said just delete the toon that was caught hacking on, not the actually account... The hacker can join the rest of us and play within the EULA on another toon if he/she so chooses, but within the rules of the game.

[Baaleos]

I agree that its not the best idea.

 

If there is no risk of being perma banned, people will try to create new ways to hack and exploit with level 1 characters, with no fear of reprisal against their main account and main characters.

 

 

The main incentive to play legit at the moment, is that people dont want to lose access to the characters that they worked so hard on.

 

Deleting a measly level 1 character, that attempted an exploit, wont deter players, because they would know their main's are safe.

 

 

Some dedicated hackers and exploiters make alt accounts - Bioware will close these if they catch them breaking rules etc, but they wont stop a player for whatever reason, making additional accounts, because Bioware likes being able to charge per account.

 

 

Note - I personally havent seen anyone hacking or exploiting, but I was in a Huttball game, and someone shouted out that someone was Speed Hacking (the person who scored)

 

I never actually saw it, but if it is true, that people are speedhacking/exploiting to win in pvp games, then yes, they definitely need to go.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Baaleos

[KiaThas]

Thats simply ruling with an Iron fist.

 

Which puts off quite a large customer base.

 

Don't get me wrong, Exploitation negates many other players, and as a republic player the Exploiters on Ilum effected Pvp to the extent where we didn't win a game for a good week.

 

But I think they've already received their punishment in aspect of ending the fun. The feeling of achievement, which you don't get when you cheat/exploit your way through.

At battlemaster there is literally nothing to do at this early stage, no pvp charts etc.

 

So let them exploit with perhaps a 3 day ban, but when they get back, what will they do?

Edited February 17, 2012 by KiaThas

[Baaleos]

Thats simply ruling with an Iron fist.

 

Which puts off quite a large customer base.

 

Don't get me wrong, Exploitation negates many other players, and as a republic player the Exploiters on Ilum effected Pvp to the extent where we didn't win a game for a good week.

 

But I think they've already received their punishment in aspect of ending the fun. The feeling of achievement, which you don't get when you cheat/exploit your way through.

At battlemaster there is literally nothing to do at this early stage, no pvp charts etc.

 

So let them exploit with perhaps a 3 day ban, but when they get back, what will they do?

 

 

What will they do?

They will feel triumph that they are back again to exploit again, in other ways if not the same way.

 

If a Speedhacker is able to win 25 Huttball games a day, farming alot of credits, and then transfer said credits to a main character, the OP's suggestion for this is

3 Day ban, and delete the Speedhacking Character, with no pennalties to the other characters owned by said Speed Hacker.

Most Communities, and Social Networking websites have rules for Flaming and other anti-social behavior.

3 Strikes and your out is often one of them - depending on the severity.

But they usually all end with some sort of finality, where the offender is forced out of the community.

 

Thats simply ruling with an Iron fist.

 

Which puts off quite a large customer base.

Thankfully, we dont care if we see the Exploiters leaving.

They werent welcome in the first place.

[KiaThas]

I didn't look at it that way.

 

My point about being in a game with an iron fist.

 

I would find it somewhat discouraging to play a game where I know if I did one thing wrong I wouldn't be given a second chance.

 

Perhaps not a character deletion right away, which is what the OP is calling for.

Edited February 17, 2012 by KiaThas

[Raximillian]

Sorry rax, but thats bunk....exploiters and hackers affect the game play of all they come in contact with...I like this idea...After the deletion, give them an appeal process to explain why they needed to hack. Honostly, BW doesnt need hackers playing anyway. If your not hacking, you have nothing to worry about, do you? This seems to be a win win for all...Hackers are gone and non-hackers can enjoy the game. Seems like cres's post struck a nerve.

 

 

And, i believe cres said just delete the toon that was caught hacking on, not the actually account... The hacker can join the rest of us and play within the EULA on another toon if he/she so chooses, but within the rules of the game.

 

I'm not saying that BW should turn a blind eye on exploiters. But they should not hit everyone with an iron hammer either. There are cases where people may unintentionally commit an exploit.

 

In my opinion it is better to generate an understanding that BW will fix exploits in the game when reported, instead of just simply putting the fear of rah into people that they will fear trying to explore up that cliff because they may be suspended or banned for exploiting.

 

I prefer BW just fixes exploits, than have everyone living in fear all the time.

[Frigidman]

Both sides here have valid arguments.

 

I would like to see more punishment for repeat offenders. However I know legit people then get fearful of being wrongly accused and affected against. So I don't want to see fascist rulings either.

 

Its a tricky balance that must be done.

 

However I think everyone will agree that BW needs to plug exploits as fast as they can humanly do so, so to take the toys away from the ingrates who are deliberately exploiting. Sure the fools will find new ways to be a putz, but when they do, people report the issue, and BW fixes it (or should fix it).

 

So, I think the temporary 'go sit in a corner' works for now, as it gives BW time to fix the exploit while the exploiters are off server.

 

Of course REPEAT OFFENDERS should have more consequences... that's a given, and that's how the real world works too.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Frigidman

[Baaleos]

Its true, I may be sort of blurring the lines between people who intentionally attempt to benefit from hacks or speedhacking etc, and people who stumble across a treasure box that respawns every 4 seconds.

 

 

People who accidentally find something in game, that gives them an edge or benefit, that may not be intentional - I would probably exploit that too, and then I would report it. Being honest here, if I found a treasure box that granted me 1000 xp per click, and it didnt vanish after use, I would gain a few levels by using it. I would report it to Bioware, and they would likely allow me and anyone else who used it in the interrim to get away with it, until they fix or disable it. Most developers are nice like that, they acknowledge their programming error, and then thank the players for reporting it, and turn a blind eye to the possible mis-use it could have posed before that time.

 

People who use external applications to alter gameplay experience to gain a benefit. I would say smack these people down with not just an Iron Hammer- Use a flippen Wrecking ball.

 

They grab the huttball, turn on speedhack to a barely noticable level such as 10% speed increase, which on its own, isnt much, but that becomes alot more with things such as Sprint, and Force Speed turned on. They end up being able to solo to the finish line, moving faster than the persuing team.

 

This is obviously a serious matter, as it wrecks economys, because they win more, they get more medals, get more valor, get more credits, get more xp, and the opposing team gets less of all of the above.

 

One team win's due to a speedhacker, means another team HAS to lose.

Do you want your team to be the losing team because another player on the enemy team is speedhacking?

 

I say do a 0 tolerance approach to Speedhackers, or at the very least. Temp Ban, and then let them crawl to Bioware asking for reinstatement.

2-3 infractions, and then they should be booted out permanently.

[VLAHD]

If your not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about, period. End of story, end of discusion. Cheesy bans dont work. At most they get kicked for a week and then they come back to hacking again. They might not use the same exact hack, but they will find a way to hack again. Its too easy to do with a decent compiler and some knowlege of code. BW will never catch all the hacks and its very hard to write the ghost script to detect them. Think of the hacks as a virus, constantly evolving to beat your immune system.

 

Its easier to get rid of the hackers, most cant write the code needed to hack in the first place. Yes, its ruling with an iron first, but the iron fist gets rid of habitual problems, and makes others on the fence think twice before hacking (kind of like the death penalty).

 

Here is why the current bans dont work:

 

Yesterday, during a voidstarr WZ, I encounter an agent stealth hacking (thats what im calling it anyway). I was watching an empty door when i get the message a bomb has been planted. The agent and the bomb flash into view when the message goes off. I thought this was suspicious but i chalked it up to lag or something. Then, on the next door it happens again. I run a high end puter with a 12mb isp...no way it was lag twice. Of course we lost the match.

 

I reported the person (leaving name out here) and jumped to my assasin to talk to the person. I told them they had been reported for the hack. The person actually laughed at me and said "what if i was hacking? What are they going to do, ban me for a couple days??? who cares and move along". I captured all this on logs. My point is, a small ban is not enough to deter hackers...losing a lvl 50 battlemaster is. Yes, they can just make a new toon and start hacking all over, but they will get caught again eventually. Delete that toon too. If it happens a 3rd time, just delete the account, they have been given enough chances.

 

Here is something else to think about for all of you who think BW cant afford to lose the hacker accounts. Everytime one of us reports a hacker, a CS agent has to investigate the claim...thats alot of wasted manhours that could be used for something constructive like class balancing, or bug fixes, or new material. The costs will probably balance them selves out with less reports, and game play for us would improve 2 fold (old problems could get more attention, and hackers are gone).

 

I personnally live by this moto: you made your bed, now you have to lay in it. BW needs to get rid of these people.

 

This will work.

[Phinion]

I partially agree with OP. Once caught the first time give them a 7 day ban. The second time caught hacking the toon is deleted. Also any items credits, etc... that toon recieved within the last 2 weeks and mailed to another toon on same account is deleted. The third time caught the account is banned completely. This gives people a chance to play the game properly and have a second chance.

 

For those that think they will have their buddy setup a bank account for their hacking friend... all transactions are monitored and you are an associate of a known hacker who has been sending tons of stuff to you. Send them an in-game mail telling them they would face a ban also for being an accessory to hacking.

 

Someone mentioned the real world... can't get more realistic than that. They have a chance to play the game. You can be an accessory to murder or a bank robbery so there ya go. Problem is solved.

[Space_Gimp]

I fully support hardware bans for repeat offenders.