What does the 1-49 bracket teach us about PVP gear?

[Tyranoc]

It means that level 40+ love to faceroll the 10-49 bracket, but when they hit 50 with level 40 pvp gear they cry like babies when they don't continue to faceroll the noobs.

 

That has been my arguement all along. But because I think that I supposedly cheat and have easy mode turned on.

[Seriasx]

I've been destroying 40-49s since my toon hit level 10, while my 50 on the other hand gets destroyed by people who randomly peck 1 through 5, they use the tried, tested and true method of casting what hasnt been used yet out of those 5 buttons.

[Tyranoc]

With all the complaining about gear being such a huge factor, I was a little intimidated when I hit 50 last week. The posts here led me to believe that I was going to be getting destroyed without any chance once I got into the level 50 bracket. One week later, there are very few people I square off with 1v1 that I expect to lose against, and it's rare for me to be lower than #2 on my team in DPS.

 

You can blame gear all you want, but I had no problem without it, and it's come a lot faster than I expected. These forums tend to make things out to be a lot worse than they really are. So much propaganda from bad players blaming the game for their own poor performance.

 

Yep, the OP and his followers are just noobs. Bad ones at that. I witnessed a 50 Sniper with nothing but orange gear come 2nd in over all damage and medals in a WZ and had the 3rd least amount of deaths. That was against players (or cheaters as thr OP and many in here would call them) who were in full BM.

 

If he can do it why can't these other terribads do it?

[Abiza]

You know it's sorta silly, if the PvP in a game was enjoyable you wouldn't need an "incentive to keep playing". Having an incentive such as the gear system that swtor relies so heavily on to keep us playing just highlights how terrible the PvP mechanics are.

 

The good PvP mechanics=good incentive to keep skilled players coming back for more

Bad PvP mechanics= build in an incentive since there is not one innately inherent

 

 

You'd think so, but I can tell you with experience that you're very wrong about this. You will burn out with nothing to look forward to and only more of the same. Trust me.

 

I, along with every Grand Marshal/High Warlord, pretty much stopped playing and rerolled alts later on because there was nothing to look forward to. Good PvPrs already know they can destroy you 1v1 without flinching and they also know their team will wreck yours. They could do this with or without gear. Seriously. You bads put waayyyyy too much emphasis on this as your scapegoat. It doesn't take long to get well known in these communities if you're talented. Real PvPrs need something to work towards just as the PVErs desire a grind in contrasts.

 

We all need a ladder to climb in an MMO, no matter what part of the game it is you enjoy. BW is about to throw nearly free starter pvp gear at the fresh 50s, regardless of how unbelievable easy it is to gear out in champ gear so this entire thread is already invalid. If you bads would stop whinning on the forums for a minute and play for just a week you'd see this. Knock out two weeklys, 6 dailies, and about 3 hours(average player playtime) of WZ's a day and you'll be mostly* all champ gear in a weeks time. Listen to all the other fresh 50's that came to this thread saying "dude whats the big deal, its not as bad as I thought it was gonna be."

 

And lastly, gtf o of here with that 10-49 bracket crap. The difference between a 16 and a 49 with gear, talents, and abilities is worlds apart and far greater than some 50 with pvp gear and your day one 50 in oranges. No one takes you seriously.

 

Useless thread is useless. You guys are a joke.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Abiza

[Rhogn]

... good PvP mechanics=good incentive to keep skilled players coming back for more...

 

Agree. Unfortunately this is a business. I'll go out on a limb (not really) and say the majority of the player base is NOT skilled, and thus the business doesn't really cater to them. The majority of the player base like shinies, incentives and playing with an advantage (see FOTM, zerging, 50s camping 30 zones etc... for proof of that). Unfortunately the success of WoW has created a player base that for some reason demands/expects hamster wheels and ever increasing hamster wheels, even a few weeks after launch. Personally wish it were different and hope a happy medium can be obtained - and still looking fwd to seeing how GW2 progresses.

[Soulcheg]

You know it's sorta silly, if the PvP in a game was enjoyable you wouldn't need an "incentive to keep playing". Having an incentive such as the gear system that swtor relies so heavily on to keep us playing just highlights how terrible the PvP mechanics are.

 

The good PvP mechanics=good incentive to keep skilled players coming back for more

Bad PvP mechanics= build in an incentive since there is not one innately inherent

 

Classes isn't balanced, skills still broken, what about you talking?

 

 

And do not forget, please, it's a MMORPG, not a single RPG, so there will always be progression and there is always be a gap between old players and a new ones. It's a MMORPG.

[Abiza]

Agree. Unfortunately this is a business. I'll go out on a limb (not really) and say the majority of the player base is NOT skilled, and thus the business doesn't really cater to them. The majority of the player base like shinies, incentives and playing with an advantage (see FOTM, zerging, 50s camping 30 zones etc... for proof of that). Unfortunately the success of WoW has created a player base that for some reason demands/expects hamster wheels and ever increasing hamster wheels, even a few weeks after launch. Personally wish it were different and hope a happy medium can be obtained - and still looking fwd to seeing how GW2 progresses.

 

 

MMO = Hamster Wheel.

Progression = Hamster Wheel.

You = Hamster on a wheel.

[Mackuss]

2 things.

 

1) - There is no such thing as a 1-49 bracket. You can't PvP at level 1.... It's 10-49.

 

2) - I agree with most everything else. I really don't understand why companies don't take EXACT notes from games like Call of Duty and battlefield. There is no gear grind, yet people still remain LARGELY and EXTREMELY interested and look how many people play those games still?

[Delavager]

2) - I agree with most everything else. I really don't understand why companies don't take EXACT notes from games like Call of Duty and battlefield. There is no gear grind, yet people still remain LARGELY and EXTREMELY interested and look how many people play those games still?

 

Fact: People play MMORPG's for gear progression and the like. It's an RPG, not an FPS or RTS or Action game or what have you.

 

Fact: Different games are different.

 

Fact: MMORPG's are about progression and most importantly CUSTOMIZATION. The ability to BUILD your character is what defines an RPG.

 

Fact: Not as many people play those games for as long as they play MMORPGs. MMORPGs have to be bigger and better than CoD and Battlefield in order to be profitable.

 

Fact: Though I too favor equality in PvP I use my brain and realize there exist other people other than me that play this game, nearly 1,699,999 other people in fact. BW must try to cater to as many people as possible to maintain high levels of subscriptions. Just cause you don't like it, doesn't mean everybody doesn't like it. I think they did a really really good job to appeal to both the gear progression fans, the RPG aspects of the game, and the equality aspect of the game. The reality is it does not take that long to get on equal footing with those with better gear than you all things considering. It's a trade off, you get dumped on for a week or two and then you are fine, meanwhile BW still appeases the gear progression, and you are appeased two weeks later with equality.

 

Fact: Ranked Warzones will solve so many problems. Those with UBER GEAR will less likely match up against those with NEWBISH GEAR due to ratings.

 

Fact: There are many ways to curb the disparity of gear between new 50s and bm 50s that most players just ignore. Someone made a post earlier how you could be in full purples (sans bracers and waist) in less than 2 days immediately after hitting 50. Does this solve the problem? No but it makes it much much easier to deal with.

[Torleen]

Exactly. I point this out, but they constantly scream and stomp their feet refusing to believe its them. They can't possibly be bad, everyone else is cheating!!!!

 

It's pretty simple Math.

 

If you were a good player, you would not need a mathematical advantage. The logic is simple and sound. You can call us more names or whatever you have to do to continue to pretend you have in some way gained any leeway in this debate, but you failed. Utterly.

[Torleen]

Its not an exploit. Its the game mechanics. Nor did I say I would use exploits. I simply said if you get rid of expertise and/or PvP armour people like myself will use Rakata. You would then whingge about that because you didnt have that, and its was leaving you butt hurt... Then you'd want BW to give you Rakata or get rid of it, in which case we would find some other armour set or trinket to give us an advantage over the skilless players like yourself. Thats not exploiting its using the gear available to maximise potential. Optimisation! No hacks. No Cheats. No exploits. The items exist in game and can be used in game. Its smart people out smarting dumb people by using the best gear they can find for advantage over the competition... Welcome to survival of the fittest!!!!

 

You obviously don't make the cut. Hence the crying.

 

The two of you just cant accept the fact that you can't play. Hence you not having gear. Everyone here is admitting how easy it is to get it. So use your "skills" to get it already and stop crying!

 

Or better yet cancel your subscription and go back to your "real pvp" games.

 

Maybe if you repeat this completely illogical garbage enough people might agree with you?

 

People who need a gear crutch are bad players.

 

Good players do not need a gear crutch.

 

Please explain to me what about having a code advantage does to somehow make you "good"?

 

Please explain to me how a game that creates those handicaps is somehow producing "better" players?

 

This is the point you continually try to ignore, and the reason why is because it spits in the face of your "logic" is that if you were a "good" player you would not need an advantage. You could win on equal terms consistently.

 

You have failed to address this simple logic more then once, and have relied instead solely on name calling and other lo brow tactics. You are barking up the wrong tree if you think cyber-bullying is going to win you anything here. You have lost.

[Torleen]

Yeah I know what you mean.

 

Dont forget, he is the "internet soldier" ... the one and only.

 

I dont want to waste my time conversing with him anymore.

I just dont have time for immature, rude and clueless adolescents.

 

Anyways great post you have here Torleen.

Appreciate the time and effort you've put in this. And we share a common interest in PvP where skills comes first. Unlike wannabe pvpers.

 

What is amazing is how they continue to try and delude themselves and the PVP community to believe that they are the "good" players.

 

It is a basic rule of competition that all competitors start on the same footing. Anyone who suggested that they should start on the 50 yard line at the 100 meter dash would be laughed off the field. If they tried to brag about any "wins" they were handed with such a handicap against their opponents they would be disgraced.

 

The sheer absurdity of this "logic" is just astounding. The entitlement to "winning" spits in the face of anything competitive. Watch as they try to conceal the truth behind insults and other nonsense. It's all they have left when someone pulls aside the curtain to reveal the Wizard Of Oz is just an old guy with some special effects.

[Torleen]

Trust me, if there where no gear to blame - most people would start blaming other things, like class imbalance, adrenals / stims, latency etc etc etc.

 

Bad players will always be bad, no matter how easy the devs make it for them.

 

Excessive gear disparity is about the devs trying to make PVP easy for grinders who cannot learn to play.

[Torleen]

Let me Paraphrase the OP here:

 

I enjoy twinking a level 49 and facerolling level 10s in the 10-49 rather then get to 50 and have it done to me in the same manner.

 

I am too lazy to work for the gear that was provided at 50 which is NOT that hard to get to be honest. If I would of Played warhammer online I would of thought that to be a ton harder then this game to get gear.

 

SO I will tell everybody on this forum that 10-49 is better...

 

end of paraphrase....

 

LOL are you kidding... you are doing exactly what you hate you at 50... by twinking a 49 out in gear with crafted items and orange gear and facing off on level 10's is just the same as what happens to fresh 50s in the 50 bracket.

 

whats the difference?

 

anyway, people like this make me laugh. Same type of person decked out in BM is the same as a twinked 49...

 

IRONY

 

Lets work on a little thing called reading comprehension. I just suggested that I do not like gear disparity. I did not say a word about enjoying being a twink, or playing a twink. So basically you just pulled this nonsense out of thin air based on nothing. If I don't like gear disparity at 50, why would I like it at 49? Or any level?

 

You totally fail.

[Torleen]

Stopped reading here. Time spent doesn't amount to skill. It could arguably lead to becoming more familiar with the class, but seriously? Just how difficult are the mechanics in this game to require any more than levels 1-49 to learn to play your class?

 

After that, it's just whoever has the most amount of time to spend grinding it out, and has absolutely nothing to do with being skilled. I've seen so many people in full Champion gear and gearing out Battlemaster who honestly don't know what to do after their ability gets canceled and just stand there with their finger up their butt.

 

Speaking of which, the fact that so many people got Battlemaster by sitting in Ilum all day trading kills with the opposite faction. That equals skill too, I bet. In fact, a good amount of them start bragging about how great they are for being Battlemaster. It's like, dude, you stood in a group and got AOE'd by Republics, respawned and typed /stuck, then AOE'd them back a few minutes later, back and forth, for 10 hours straight. So much skill!

 

lol yeah...

[Tyranoc]

It's pretty simple Math.

 

If you were a good player, you would not need a mathematical advantage. The logic is simple and sound. You can call us more names or whatever you have to do to continue to pretend you have in some way gained any leeway in this debate, but you failed. Utterly.

 

There will always be someone with an advantage. There is NEVER an even playing field.

 

For someone who is supposedly "skilled" and a good player you sure do complain and cry alot. Especially since you can buy all gear now, so you shouldnt have any issues fighting geared ppl.

 

But by all means continue complaining

[Delekii]

There will always be someone with an advantage. There is NEVER an even playing field.

 

For someone who is supposedly "skilled" and a good player you sure do complain and cry alot. Especially since you can buy all gear now, so you shouldnt have any issues fighting geared ppl.

 

But by all means continue complaining

 

Of course there will always be some sort of advantage, that really has no bearing on the DECISION to impose that advantage to such a large degree. That's like when people say x or y should be legal because people do it anyway. Whatever the reality, the GOAL should be to have skill be the only deciding factor, and all actions should be based around achieving that goal. Any argument to the contrary is an argument against skill based pvp.

[Seriasx]

There will always be someone with an advantage. There is NEVER an even playing field.

 

For someone who is supposedly "skilled" and a good player you sure do complain and cry alot. Especially since you can buy all gear now, so you shouldnt have any issues fighting geared ppl.

 

But by all means continue complaining

 

Yeah, but the advantage should be class and game knowledge, not something you found inside a bag.

 

But hey I like how you think his problem was that he didn't want to be owned by people in the BM gear when he was actually talking about the entire siutation where even people in BM gear fighting noobie 50s with no pvp gear should be the ones asking for gear to be brought to an even playing level. If he were at all concerned with pvp that is.

 

 

 

 

I think the real problem is that pvp wasnt created to be an entire game or playstyle, nor was it ever meant to have tangible rewards for participating, the entire purpose of pvp was to face challenging content from an enemy who could not be anticipated.

 

What its turned into is bad players needing gear to press 1 through 4 at random intervals while being too inept to grasp whats happening around them.

[caultonpos]

1-49 is not balanced. A level 49 will wipe the floor with a level less than 20. Much more dps.

[Seriasx]

1-49 is not balanced. A level 49 will wipe the floor with a level less than 20. Much more dps.

 

Wrong.

 

 

My level 36 was killing everyone with ease from level 10 till now, the only difference is they get more abilities but the base dmg/crit/surge levels all remain very close to one another.

 

I don't expect you to grasp the differences between a new 50 vs. a BM'd 50, nor do I expect you to understand the differences between a level 10 and 49 under the bolster system, but it sure would be nice if you didn't reply as if you did know~

[Torleen]

There will always be someone with an advantage. There is NEVER an even playing field.

 

For someone who is supposedly "skilled" and a good player you sure do complain and cry alot. Especially since you can buy all gear now, so you shouldnt have any issues fighting geared ppl.

 

But by all means continue complaining

 

For someone who claims to be good you sure do spend a lot of time defending your gear crutch.

 

By the way, you can keep calling legitimate arguments "crying" if that suits your trolling. Logically you lost this argument dozens of pages ago.

 

This is further evidenced by your inability to address the very real issues raised in this thread. Maybe if you just act like a high school bully reality will change?

Edited February 8, 2012 by Torleen

[Brutem]

Yeah, but the advantage should be class and game knowledge, not something you found inside a bag.

 

Game knowledge/player skill/teamwork should be the main factors pvp, if players need a "carrot" then give them something cosmetic. I do not buy the "I need a carrot on a stick" arguement, when those using it are saying they are dedicated pvpers, perhaps dedicated to gear but not pvp. PvP should be about teamwork, competition and most of all fun, not gear. Thanks to PvP gear you have the current state of Ilum, kill/cap trade to get that "carrot".

 

The only issue, if there wasn't pvp gear is, whomever has the best PvE gear would be the dominate force. The solution, start of the WZ or when entering a world pvp zone, you automatically equip a set of pvp gear, which you have picked of a certain item level. While you are in said area or WZ you can only have that gear on, no swapping. This in turn would eliminate gear from being a factor at all, then player skill and teamwork will be the major factors and not gear.

[caultonpos]

Wrong.

 

 

My level 36 was killing everyone with ease from level 10 till now, the only difference is they get more abilities but the base dmg/crit/surge levels all remain very close to one another.

 

I don't expect you to grasp the differences between a new 50 vs. a BM'd 50, nor do I expect you to understand the differences between a level 10 and 49 under the bolster system, but it sure would be nice if you didn't reply as if you did know~

 

 

You are truly clueless.

 

Yes the base damage is bolstered.

 

As a level 10 marauder I have a few skills - with cooldowns and my dps is low.

 

As a level 30 marauder I have a ton of skills and 1v1 I will rip my level 10 counterpart apart in no time.

 

not to mention as a I level and gear up my crit goes UP

 

l2p

Edited February 8, 2012 by caultonpos

[Jebi]

You are truly clueless.

 

Yes the base damage is bolstered.

 

As a level 10 marauder I have a few skills - with cooldowns and my dps is low.

 

As a level 30 marauder I have a ton of skills and 1v1 I will rip my level 10 counterpart apart in no time.

 

not to mention as a I level and gear up my crit goes UP

 

l2p

 

The L2P argument doesn't really work when you're trying to convince someone why THEY SHOULD BE LOSING.

 

Damage is bolstered, gear is bolstered, skills are bolstered, HP is bolstered, stats are bolstered etc...

 

Sure, you don't have all the abilities of the higher level's, but if you actually know how to play your class, and how to use the environment to your advantage... you can easily take down much higher level players.

 

As a level 15 jug I got my solo kill medal from taking down a level 43 jug (one on one, at a cap point, nobody else around). Then, he came back and tried again. Same outcome (minus the medal unfortunately).

 

As a level 20 merc I was topping the damage chart, and objectives, and don't fear any class 1 v 1 regardless of level.

 

As a level 40 sorc I have zero problems topping healing AND damage even against level 49 twinks.

 

Maybe it's you who needs to L2P.

 

And nobody is saying 10-49 is perfectly balanced, but it's FAR better than the level 50 gear discrepancy garbage we are currently stuck with.

 

For someone who claims to be good you sure do spend a lot of time defending your gear crutch.

 

By the way, you can keep calling legitimate arguments "crying" if that suits your trolling. Logically you lost this argument dozens of pages ago.

 

Yeah, but you had to admit he's entertaining. Poor kid doesn't know when to give up.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Jebi

[xrizxriz]

The issue I see with PVP now is similar to watching a NFL team play against a High school Foot ball team. Too much of the time one team is noob to PVP 50's against a team that most of the players do nothing but play PvP. What happens is just not fun to to losing side and though I know it's fair in terms of the game, why should someone even bother with PvP unless that's all they want out of the game?

 

A lot of people like to play basket ball besides professional NBA players but is it fun if the regular guy can only play against NBA players?