bearchubbs Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Normally when you make a demand, you provide consequences when the demand is not met. I could not find the consequences if BioWare does not meet your demand. How's losing even more subscribers sound? They've already bled a good portion of their touted "Over 1 million subs" in just a month. Tor status points to more around 600k now and dropping daily. Consequences are already taking place, and quickly I might add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungihoujo Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Every class is both OP and UP. They nerfed them too much and buffed them too much at the same time. Kill trading's still going.. Y'know what? I don't see a problem with the patches- because everything you're whining about is entirely in the players. What's your brilliant solution to kill trading anyway, oh wise one? Go ahead, speak it so that anyone with a brain can rip it to shreds and prove you wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbara Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 They made the changes they felt they need to make, and now both classes can kill people FASTER. elaborate on how this is so for the noobs who don't know what you are talking about. maybe then people will actually be able to make intelligent comments related to what you are saying. how exactly can a character who just had their dps reduced kill 'faster'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demorase Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Every class is both OP and UP. They nerfed them too much and buffed them too much at the same time. Kill trading's still going.. Y'know what? I don't see a problem with the patches- because everything you're whining about is entirely in the players. What's your brilliant solution to kill trading anyway, oh wise one? Go ahead, speak it so that anyone with a brain can rip it to shreds and prove you wrong. Make it so you lose points for dying, so if you kill trade you're back to square one and it actually takes skill to gain valor ranks, OMG problem solved! Your brain=blown. Edited January 31, 2012 by Demorase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solusrath Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Imagine that...yet another failed integration of PvP and PvE in an MMO. It's like watching a train wreck. its like I've said from the beginning. You cannot balance the two on the same ruleset. It does not, and will not *ever* work. The only way you can balance class abilities for pve and pvp is to be able to adjust both independently, like they did in EQ2. Thats the only game that I've played so far to ever get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearchubbs Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Make it so you lose points for dying, so if you kill trade you're back to square one and it actually takes skill to gain valor ranks, OMG problem solved! Your brain=blown. So if you get outnumbered you're never getting points then. Guess republics' **** outta luck eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nmaharg Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 So if you get outnumbered you're never getting points then. Guess republics' **** outta luck eh? Pretty much, But this goes back to the whole server merge issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demorase Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) So if you get outnumbered you're never getting points then. Guess republics' **** outta luck eh? Yeah cause Republic was never ****** right? ps: if you're outnumbered, just stay near your base, if they want points they'll have to come for you and you can fight on equal ground thanks to your defenses and farm them, problem solved, again. Edited January 31, 2012 by Demorase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeltikTwo Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Pretty much, But this goes back to the whole server merge issue. Except ...... every server I've played on so far, has double minimum emp to pub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbara Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 i have read through entire thread and not once has anyone ever explained in detail or even remotely how this patch has caused the specific classes in question to kill faster... w00t i guess we will just take your word for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nmaharg Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 i have read through entire thread and not once has anyone ever explained in detail or even remotely how this patch has caused the specific classes in question to kill faster... w00t i guess we will just take your word for it Quoting someone from the OPs forums. "I understand where you're coming from but the issue is crit chance, not damage. If I typically opened for 5.3K, I NOW open for 4.24K. Given it's only a 1.5 sec stun, I will also follow it up with a 2.5-3.3K hit. So under the BEST scenario for my target, I've taken away 6.75K before they stand up (that's almost 50% HP for most players). Now, after they stand up they can shield, sprint, etc. Before they had a chance to get away, this is no longer the case. If my target tries to gain distance, then I can NOW stun them for 4 seconds. If they break it fast, I STILL get in a hit for 2.5-3K (now they've lost 9.25K). So lets say that under optimum conditions, they break that stun ASAP! They're johnny on the spot. Well guess what, they now either have to stun me (which I will break) or try and run. Either way they're 1.5 seconds (at most) from getting a flash grenade that won't break for 3 seconds REGARDLESS of the damage they take. During which time I guarantee you I will finish them off. With this "nerf", players NO LONGER HAVE A CHANCE TO GET AWAY! It's over." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nmaharg Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Except ...... every server I've played on so far, has double minimum emp to pub My server has more rebs. Merge the two and bingo problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexiekaboom Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 elaborate on how this is so for the noobs who don't know what you are talking about. maybe then people will actually be able to make intelligent comments related to what you are saying. how exactly can a character who just had their dps reduced kill 'faster'? Pre-patch = Reduce target to 40%-20% in a single attack and stun. Target can now, run, heal, use defence cool downs, whatever it has while you try to do the rest of that damage to it. This takes time as the target is now in a state where it can react and survive. Post-patch. Reduce target to 50%-30% in a single attack and stun. Stun again and to the rest of the damage before the target can react in any way. MUCH faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbara Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Pre-patch = Reduce target to 40%-20% in a single attack and stun. Target can now, run, heal, use defence cool downs, whatever it has while you try to do the rest of that damage to it. This takes time as the target is now in a state where it can react and survive. Post-patch. Reduce target to 50%-30% in a single attack and stun. Stun again and to the rest of the damage before the target can react in any way. MUCH faster. ok so the dps is lower, but because of new abilities to stun, the fight is a foregone conclusion; the end is now inevitable. so they can't kill "faster", their chances of killing are better now because of stuns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexiekaboom Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 ok so the dps is lower, but because of new abilities to stun, the fight is a foregone conclusion; the end is now inevitable. so they can't kill "faster", their chances of killing are better now because of stuns. No, they kill FASTER It's really not that hard, but I guess I'll break it down even further. Pre-patch: Hit guy. Guy moves. I move to guy (PLEASE NOTE: MOVING TAKES TIME). Guy puts up shield to reduce my dps or heals (PLEASE NOTE: INCREASE YOUR DEFENCE OR RESTORING YOUR HIT POINTS MAKES IT SO KILLING YOU TAKES MORE TIME). Guy stuns me and run away, and I have to break and catch up (PLEASE NOTE: THIS ALSO TAKES TIME). Then I kill him. Post-patch: HIt guy, hit guy again, hit guy again, dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbara Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) No, they kill FASTER what i mean is they dont dish out faster dps, the opponent dies faster because they are stunned. You can finish them off on the spot, and you dont have to spend time chasing them around, and watch as they are able to pop a medical kit and gain some hp. according to your explanation they die faster, but not from faster dps, from being stunned. Edited January 31, 2012 by Gilbara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexiekaboom Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 what i mean is they dont dish out faster dps, the opponent dies faster because they are stunned. You can finish them off on the spot, and you dont have to spend time chasing them around, and watch as they are able to pop a medical kit and gain some hp. according to your explanation they die faster, but not from faster dps, from being stunned. Correct. And the patch notes said it was done to stop "faster then expected PVP kills" not to "lower dps". So the patch did the exact opposite of what it was meant to do as the "faster then expected" kills are now "REALLY faster then expected" kills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbara Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Correct. And the patch notes said it was done to stop "faster then expected PVP kills" not to "lower dps". So the patch did the exact opposite of what it was meant to do as the "faster then expected" kills are now "REALLY faster then expected" kills. if you are right, then it is a major screw up. i agree that this has happened in the past with other 'fixes' as well. very strange, and not a good sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JansanRuno Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Every patch seems to fix bugs. Good job by Bioware. I think you are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evesman Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Look, there are inarguably issues with the game. But blanket comments are not fair or productive. The truth of the matter is that if there were no nerfs applied to the Smuggler and IA classes, people would be upset with that as well. People have different ideas of what they would like to see in a particular class. When that doesn't happen, they are disappointed. But accusing Bioware, and it's employees of incompetence because of a players disappointment is taking it too far. For the title to be true, everything that they fixed down to the smallest bug repair would have to mess up the thing that they were trying to fix, and that hasn't happened. I am sorry if your experience was diminished, but that happens in MMO's as they are trying to make a great experience for thousands of people. Commence flaming... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbara Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Look, there are inarguably issues with the game. But... Commence flaming... OK why do you use the gold font similar to what the forum mods use? are you hoping that others will assume you are a mod or psychologically associate your post with moderation in short, are you trying to impersonate being a mod? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexiekaboom Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 Look, there are inarguably issues with the game. But blanket comments are not fair or productive. The truth of the matter is that if there were no nerfs applied to the Smuggler and IA classes, people would be upset with that as well. People have different ideas of what they would like to see in a particular class. When that doesn't happen, they are disappointed. But accusing Bioware, and it's employees of incompetence because of a players disappointment is taking it too far. For the title to be true, everything that they fixed down to the smallest bug repair would have to mess up the thing that they were trying to fix, and that hasn't happened. I am sorry if your experience was diminished, but that happens in MMO's as they are trying to make a great experience for thousands of people. Commence flaming... OP: Patches never do the things they say they are going to do Reply: OPERATIVES NEEDED TO BE NERFED!!! Follow up reply: Not saying they do or don't, just saying the patch said x would happen (they would kill players slower) and y happened (they kill players faster) Reply: *** HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THE OPERATIVE NERF!! IT NEEDED TO HAPPEN Reading is hard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeonidasSith Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 OP: Patches never do the things they say they are going to do Reply: OPERATIVES NEEDED TO BE NERFED!!! Follow up reply: Not saying they do or don't, just saying the patch said x would happen (they would kill players slower) and y happened (they kill players faster) Reply: *** HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THE OPERATIVE NERF!! IT NEEDED TO HAPPEN Reading is hard You're fighting a losing battle dude. They don't even understand what you're trying to say. The said thing about being stupid is, you don't know you're stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evesman Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 OK why do you use the gold font similar to what the forum mods use? are you hoping that others will assume you are a mod or psychologically associate your post with moderation in short, are you trying to impersonate being a mod? Not trying to impersonate a moderator, just liked the font. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evesman Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 OP: Patches never do the things they say they are going to do Reply: OPERATIVES NEEDED TO BE NERFED!!! Follow up reply: Not saying they do or don't, just saying the patch said x would happen (they would kill players slower) and y happened (they kill players faster) Reply: *** HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THE OPERATIVE NERF!! IT NEEDED TO HAPPEN Reading is hard I am assuming that you think I am saying that operatives need to be nerfed? Even though I didn't say that? Are you confusing me with someone else? My point was concerning nerfing or not nerfing and whether or not something is working seems to be subjective. For example, I haven't had any problems with the patch. I find that it did exactly what it was supposed to do. But you seem to have had the opposite result. And others have had that as well. But that doesn't mean that you are wrong or I am right, just different results. Regardless, I am simply trying to point out that there are just as many folks upset with the nerfing as with not doing so. What I mostly object to is making statements about your gameplay in such a way that generalizes it for everyone else. i.e. I am having issues, and so are my friends. Therefore everyone else is having issues and Bioware is not doing what they said they were going to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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