Darne Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Ok so first and foremost, I AM NOT HERE TO QQ. This is NOT a thread to say that anyone needs nerfing or that we need buffing or anything like that. Also please, no l2p comments. Because yes, that's exactly what this thread is here to do. In this thread, we discuss tactics. More specifically, tactics against specific classes. I am by no means a hardcore PvPer, but I am no casual either. I'm usually top 5 in damage and/or kills depending on WZ and if I'm attacking/defending etc., so I think I do alright in WZs. I tend to do alright against most classes, especially 1v1. They really have no chance if they aren't with their team. The situation that gets me killed >95% of the time however, is when a mercenary/commando joins the party - either 2v1 or shortly after I finish up killing an opponent and so am not at full health. I don't know if it's really just bad luck or if they indeed have the tools to counter me or if there are just tons of them running around. I almost never force charge into a fight in PvP. Knowing that every other class has a knockback, I save my charge to use right after they use their knockback. Going back to my situation though, let's say I kill a sorc/sage or whoever and so I am not at 100% health. Or that I'm coming out of AoE damage in voidstar or civil war. A mercenary/commando starts using his tracer missiles on me. I basically have two options here: fight or flight. If I decide to run, chances are I have camo. But at 4 secs any merc that doesn't have ADD should be able to find me in the nearest corner trying to hide. That is if there is even a corner nearby to hide in to begin with. I usually only get away with that in voidstar when it's a cluster **** around the doors. People tend to not notice if one person goes missing in that scenario. I most likely do not have 30 stacks of fury (and I'm not 50 yet so I don't have frenzy either), so I cannot use predation to build extra distance between us. My only option is therefore fight. So I choose fight. Again, chances are I have either ward or CoP available and immediately pop that to try and save some health while I close the distance. Like most mercs, he just spams those missiles. If it's huttball and he is on the ledge above me, I am forced to charge up. If I am lucky though, I can LoS him and force him to jump down and save my charge. Now that he's on the same level, I'll run in. They hit hard and every time they hit, that's another 4% of my armor rating gone. He gets 1 off as I charge/run in. While he starts his next one, I get disruption in. He panics, and not knowing what to do and uses his knockback. If i fall in acid or fire, that's my fault, but assume I was positioned correctly and don't. I am now forced to use my charge (If I haven't already. If I have, it's a guaranteed death) since his knockback also snares. But my disruption is only for 4 secs, and by the time I get back on him, he's right back to those tracer missiles. At this point I am always fighting a losing battle. A few more missiles and I am dead - probably taking a good amount of his health with me, but still dead. People always say sorc/sage are OP, but truthfully I think I struggle more with mercenaries/commandos. What's your go to strategy for fighting off those tracer missiles? Do you always run? Should I always be running if I'm not near full health or don't have all my CDs ready? Is there anyway to prevent his knockback/snare? What are my options after he does and how do I guage whether to try and reinitiate combate or try and run? Can they wear heavy armor or what other abilities do they have that make them seem so hard to kill? I need more info to counter them! I am not looking for a super buff that lets me 2v1 or a nerf to the mercs. I am looking for help on my situational awareness as well as asking for more detail on the merc class since I have not played one myself. Also, feel free to discuss strategy against other classes. Examples, how do you deal with those force lightning spamming sorcs or those self-healing vanguards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayc Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Camo to get into melee range is useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darne Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 Camo to get into melee range is useful. There is an interesting idea. I always considered camo as an escape mechanism. I will have to give that a try. At what point should I do that though? Before or after his knockback? I am anni, so I am not spec'd into the "removing all movement impairing" form of force camo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodokai Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) There is an interesting idea. I always considered camo as an escape mechanism. I will have to give that a try. At what point should I do that though? Before or after his knockback? I am anni, so I am not spec'd into the "removing all movement impairing" form of force camo. After but only if you're being focused. For example if you're being tracerlol'd, insta force camo(assuming charge is on cooldown) to avoid him getting casts off. Then just lock him down with silences, force joke etc. Also use force camo to run thru fires on huttball, if you've specced into the 100% less dmg talent. Undying rage is you're best ability, http://www.torhead.com/ability/91opIPj/obfuscate is also strong. Edited January 31, 2012 by Kodokai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memoriesofprey Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) If you're spec'd to get the 6-second interrupt and use it on every other grav round (you want to try and delay them from hitting 5 grav rounds- think of the grav round as their Battering Assault or Choke/Charge for their Smash) you're pretty much settled. Smart ones will push you back and hit you with a 4 second stun, which is when your cooldowns come into play. If you're Carnage, you'll be using your roots. If you're Annihilation and spec'd for Fury, you'll have 30 every 3 minutes or so and you can juggle between Predation/Berserk for anti-kiting and health. In addition, you'll want to work Crippling Slash in to make sure he's always moving like a turtle. The easy answer is basically that you'll be fine once you hit 50 and get some Tier 2 gear. You seem to be doing everything right. Later on, you'll want to rely heavily on Deadly Saber|Rupture/Gore/Prepared Smash depending on your spec to get the armor penetration necessary to rip a Trooper apart. Edited January 31, 2012 by memoriesofprey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darne Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) If you're spec'd to get the 6-second interrupt and use it on every other grav round (you want to try and delay them from hitting 5 grav rounds- think of the grav round as their Battering Assault or Choke/Charge for their Smash) you're pretty much settled. Smart ones will push you back and hit you with a 4 second stun, which is when your cooldowns come into play. If you're Carnage, you'll be using your roots. If you're Annihilation and spec'd for Fury, you'll have 30 every 3 minutes or so and you can juggle between Predation/Berserk for anti-kiting and health. In addition, you'll want to work Crippling Slash in to make sure he's always moving like a turtle. The easy answer is basically that you'll be fine once you hit 50 and get some Tier 2 gear. You seem to be doing everything right. Later on, you'll want to rely heavily on Deadly Saber|Rupture/Gore/Prepared Smash depending on your spec to get the armor penetration necessary to rip a Trooper apart. That makes sense. Try and interrupt as much as possible. I guess three skills I tend to forget I have are obfuscate, crippling slash, and predation. I mostly PvE and aside from some elities/champions here and there, those three skills aren't all that useful. I need to work them into my priorities, which I guess is something I need to try to remember for PvP. They seem to really shine there from what I hear. As for the fury comment, I finally reached the end of the anni tree and got defensive forms in the carn tree too. That fury builds up like it's my business now. It's awesome Thanks for the tips guys. Edited January 31, 2012 by Darne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yescek Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Just in case you ever decide to go Carnage, here's my 2 cents. I more or less fight most classes the same owing to the way the main carnage rotation works. There are a few differences though. Mara vs Mara - They're gonna most often be running around like a spaz. This is probably the ONLY instance where you can backpeddle to keep them on one side of you and get away with it. Aside from that, burn em. Mara vs Jugg - Same as above, only harder to kill. Still not that bad if you keep Gore up as much as possible. It also helps to use Gore > Ravage rather than Gore > Massacre > Scream. Mara vs Assassin - Not much trouble here, just be sure to save smash and sweep for when they inevitably cloak out so you can pop em. Mara vs Sorc - Pray to all that is holy that you see him before he sees you. Not all of the Sorc's attacks (Green DoT) are as visible as Force Lightning. Not to mention that you're CC'd when they do their Knockback. This is ALL about keeping them in range. Typically a losing fight as it stands, but some less geared ones can be killed. Will post more later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBninjaX Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) from an Annihilation perspective: against casters twist your interrupts: force leap, disrupt, force choke I like to try to save a force choke for the end if I can, against all opponents. Folks tend to spam their "oh $#%#" buttons when they're going to die, so a good force choke can prevent that. Under your opponent's health bar you'll notice a casting bar appear over their avatar when they begin to cast or use a channeled ability. That is a helpful prompt to use your interrupt. Also use crippling slash because these guys can use force speed to get away against troopers/BH: twist interrupts against their gravity rounds/tracer missiles. use crippling slash to keep them slowed and deadly throw when they get below 50% in case they get a heal off. Use cloak of pain when you begin taking damage, and saber ward if need be. Finally use obfuscate if you start to get low and then undying rage + a medpac to give you further staying power. Keep reapplying deadly sabers and puncture, and use vicious slash and annihilation liberally to reset puncture. Use berserk asap. If you cannot block a gravity round/tracer missile you can use force camo to avoid another shot and give your cooldowns a chance to refresh + reapply deadly sabers and get into position. against scoundrels/ops: start with cloak of pain, move to saber ward, and finally obfuscate, undying rage as needed. Battering Assault, deadly sabers, rupture, crippling slash, etc. Use unleash ASAP. I read some strat where you wait to use it, but I disagree. You want to burn these guys down fast because they're going to do the same to you. If they get the jump on you then have unleash, your defensive buffs, and undying rage + medpac ready to go. Ravage - it's a channeled ability and it can be pretty useful if you want damage at no rage cost. You can cancel the channeling by using another ability, so what I do is wait until 2 hits register then cancel ravage with annihilation, vicious slash, puncture, or even assault. The final hit of ravage hits the hardest but it takes far too long so in effect you lose dps. Canceling with annihilation remedies that. Even better if you're able to go ravage>cancel>annihilation>retaliation that is a good burst of damage Edited January 31, 2012 by HBninjaX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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