Force Speed should be removed from the game

[Ruwe]

Force Speed is OP???? Good lord man.

 

Force Speed - Grappled back to the middle of the enemy because my two seconds isn't long enough to get me out of range.

 

Force Speed - instant stop almost as fast as you hit it because a DPS spec sage/sorc just used their aoe knockback spec'd to root or a jugg/guardian leaped onto you.

 

Force Speed - instant loss of speed boost AND at half regular speed because you were leg shot.

 

Did I miss a class that can't counter the speed boost?

 

On that note, tracer missile tracer missile tracer missile tracer missile tracer missile tracer missile. (or grav round) Need I say more?

 

Stealth into a HUGE crit, instant half life, global cooldown, your dead. Need I say more?

 

Oh I'm getting my bohonkis handed to me, stealth out of combat quick!!! Need I say more?

 

I'm at 1/4 health, pop my invulnerable skill and take 5 dmg from any skill!!!

 

Every class has an ability that other classes can call OP man, it's all about learning how to counter them and how to utilize your class effectively.

If I see someone spamming tracer missile I interrupt them, then dps, after 4 seconds I stun them, then dps.

If someone stealth's out of combat I immediately begin throwing AOE in the opposite direction they were facing.

If a baddie unstealths and eats 3/4 of my health before I can stand up again, I pop a stun and run as fast as I can.

If someone is spamming lightning and aoe at me, I use interrupt and get out of line of sight.

If I'm about to get the kill on someone and they force speed out, I hit stun, if I don't catch them this time, I had them on the ropes once, not hard to do again.

 

Again, it's all about learning to counter and utilize the class, if someone can't do that then they should stick to FPS's and Mario Kart.

[fungihoujo]

I've already said earlier in this thread that we should give assassins/shadows force leap, because they DO need a gap closer to be effective, but Force speed shouldn't be it because of its many applications as something other than a gap closer.

 

 

 

I know that feel of melee being useless in pvp bro, I sympathize with shadows/assassins. You should get force leap for force speed. But force speed has got to go.

 

So essentially this is your crusade to make sorcs, a light armoured class, be the only class without an escape mechanism?

[WesleyJanson]

So essentially this is your crusade to make sorcs, a light armoured class, be the only class without an escape mechanism?

 

 

 

Hahaha

 

 

 

All their stuns, aoe knockback root, and bubble shield doesn't help them escape?

[fungihoujo]

So an aoe knockback root isn't an escape mechanic? What about a shield that sucks up a bunch of damage? What about all their cc abilities?

 

Because no other class has a knockback on top of an escape/gap closer.

[WesleyJanson]

Oh man so many posts are being deleted right now I can't keep track of what's happening to the thread

 

 

 

I'm gonna wait for them to finish before I keep posting

[BurnsTwoThree]

He tries to make it sound like Inquisitors have a lot of CC

 

 

1 Stun. Trinket-able

 

1 Cyclone, Interruptable and Dispellable

 

1 Slow, Dispellable

 

1 Knockback (only roots in a certain spec) Avoidable, Unaffected if Resolve is full.\

 

 

 

Also no, it's because it's not actually PvP-related. It's an opinion of how you personally think the game should be (without proper knowledge of the game's mechanics).

Edited January 29, 2012 by BurnsTwoThree

[Sibonk]

Hello there!

 

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[WesleyJanson]

Ok I think they're finished

 

 

Anyway

 

 

Because no other class has a knockback on top of an escape/gap closer.

 

 

 

No other class has an aoe knockback root

 

 

No other class has a shield that sucks up all incoming damage

 

 

No other class has all that, plus the stuns they have, plus force speed

 

 

 

You can't look at one aspect of something and compare it to everything else, you have to look at the entire aspect of the class here to understand why it's op

 

 

 

Like I said many, many posts ago, this thing is too good because of the fact that sorcs already have tools that are supposed to do the same thing that force speed does, and then on top of that, they've got the get out of jail free card in the form of force speed. Too much.

[BurnsTwoThree]

We've gone over this.

 

 

 

The shield is basically a 3k instant heal every 20-ish seconds. 3k for most classes is one global cooldown ability. I have 655 Expertise on my Sorc and still get critted by Scoundrel/Ops for 3.5k+ consistently. Most of the good players on my server have Rakata Stims up all of the time, but still it needs a buff if anything.

 

 

 

The AoE root is not for all Inquisitors/Consulars, therefor you cannot group the other specs into this argument.

[fungihoujo]

Hahaha

 

 

 

All their stuns, aoe knockback root, and bubble shield doesn't help them escape?

 

All their stuns? You're no doubt referring to the CC build, which has weak healing in return. If you want to have a build that can get heals off- you have to forego the root, instant mez with stun.

 

Furthermore- WW stun gives full resolve- meaning once it's done, they can leap you and you can't do anything to them, including no knockbacks.

 

If you spec specifically for CC- it makes sense that yes, you'd have good CC. For those who specced for higher damage and the ability to decently heal without being interrupted every time- you lose most of that CC and are reduced to...

 

A knockback, stun, snare and mez- plus channelled snare but you're immobile during that.

 

 

Regardless- you say stuns, bubble, etc...

 

What about other classes all having better armour? Mitigation bonuses? Defensive CDs? Cover?

 

Give me heavy armour, a few defensive CDs and some taunts- sure, take the bubble away- you're only gimping every other class which can also be bubbled.

 

Other classes also have CC- it seems to escape you guys, but sorcs aren't the only class with a stun, gasp!

 

If I need to escape, I don't have two seconds to cast WW- stun will be trinketed, which is only sensible- snares are annoying but leaps both interrupt and root.

 

What about annoying sentinels who trinket the stun, leap after my knockback? Stun, high damage saber throw which also debuffs healing another 20%- bringing trauma to make my 3 second heal only 50% effective.

 

 

But we don't complain about that because we see the big picture- we see the counters, the abilities we have and the ones they have.

 

It all balances out, and quite well.

[WesleyJanson]

We've gone over this.

 

 

 

The shield is basically a 3k instant heal every 20-ish seconds. 3k for most classes is one global cooldown ability. I have 655 Expertise on my Sorc and still get critted by Scoundrel/Ops for 3.5k+ consistently. Most of the good players on my server have Rakata Stims up all of the time, but still it needs a buff if anything.

 

 

 

The AoE root is not for all Inquisitors/Consulars, therefor you cannot group the other specs into this argument.

 

 

 

 

The shield is still going to suck up all incoming damage, and if he uses it right before Force Speed he's pretty much guaranteed to get away. In the time it takes for you to get rid of his shield he's either doing real damage to you, healing himself, stunning you, using his aoe knockback root, or just escaping without any consequences. It's an incredibly versatile tool, and would be acceptable if force speed didn't exist. But it does, and the bubble turns force speed into the get out of jail free card.

 

 

Wait, shield needs a buff? wat.

[Ruwe]

Ok I think they're finished

 

 

Anyway

 

 

 

 

 

 

No other class has an aoe knockback root

 

 

No other class has a shield that sucks up all incoming damage

 

 

No other class has all that, plus the stuns they have, plus force speed

 

 

 

You can't look at one aspect of something and compare it to everything else, you have to look at the entire aspect of the class here to understand why it's op

 

 

 

Like I said many, many posts ago, this thing is too good because of the fact that sorcs already have tools that are supposed to do the same thing that force speed does, and then on top of that, they've got the get out of jail free card in the form of force speed. Too much.

 

 

The knock back is the lowest knock back range of anything ability in the game, you have to Spec 3/4 into a tree to get the root, go ahead and take the root away, won't phase me or most sorc/sages one bit. Guardian's knockback is like 10 miles and I can't ever seem to stand back up after they knock me down.... Same deal for troopers.

 

That bubble your complaining about? It will soak up half of ONE crit (about 3k, 3.3 if your spec'd for it, just in case you were curious, and yes I am positive it's that low, I've tested it with a bunch of different guildies). The only class that I can think of that can't pop it in one hit is another sorc/sage.

 

Plus the stuns we have? Please expound upon that one We have ONE stun that's instant, and one that's a long cast time, breaks on any dmg and can be cleansed. There are other classes with just as much utility, again it's all about learning to play what you've got.

[Jooji]

We've gone over this.

 

 

 

The shield is basically a 3k instant heal every 20-ish seconds. 3k for most classes is one global cooldown ability. I have 655 Expertise on my Sorc and still get critted by Scoundrel/Ops for 3.5k+ consistently. Most of the good players on my server have Rakata Stims up all of the time, but still it needs a buff if anything.

 

 

 

The AoE root is not for all Inquisitors/Consulars, therefor you cannot group the other specs into this argument.

 

Well here's the thing, and I know this because I have both a trooper and a sorc. If I'm a trooper and I'm getting focused I pop my damage shield(only 25% dmg reduction) and can survive a bit, but my mobility is awful. I have to talent AND use a 2pc to get my knockback to the same CD as where the sorcs is baseline.

 

Now if a sorc is getting focused you can literally sprint away at 20%, LOS, then heal up, GG. That isn't even factoring in the utility of sprint in huttball. The sprint just needs to be toned down a little and it'll be fine.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Jooji

[Ntranced]

This thread should really be deleted to save the original poster any more embarrassment.

[WesleyJanson]

All their stuns? You're no doubt referring to the CC build, which has weak healing in return. If you want to have a build that can get heals off- you have to forego the root, instant mez with stun.

 

Furthermore- WW stun gives full resolve- meaning once it's done, they can leap you and you can't do anything to them, including no knockbacks.

 

If you spec specifically for CC- it makes sense that yes, you'd have good CC. For those who specced for higher damage and the ability to decently heal without being interrupted every time- you lose most of that CC and are reduced to...

 

A knockback, stun, snare and mez- plus channelled snare but you're immobile during that.

 

 

Regardless- you say stuns, bubble, etc...

 

What about other classes all having better armour? Mitigation bonuses? Defensive CDs? Cover?

 

Give me heavy armour, a few defensive CDs and some taunts- sure, take the bubble away- you're only gimping every other class which can also be bubbled.

 

Other classes also have CC- it seems to escape you guys, but sorcs aren't the only class with a stun, gasp!

 

If I need to escape, I don't have two seconds to cast WW- stun will be trinketed, which is only sensible- snares are annoying but leaps both interrupt and root.

 

What about annoying sentinels who trinket the stun, leap after my knockback? Stun, high damage saber throw which also debuffs healing another 20%- bringing trauma to make my 3 second heal only 50% effective.

 

 

But we don't complain about that because we see the big picture- we see the counters, the abilities we have and the ones they have.

 

It all balances out, and quite well.

 

 

 

You really need to stop bringing up heavy armor because all dps builds are designed to either penetrate armor or ignore it. I'm sure this will matter later once heavy armor is actually useful but as it stands now unless you spec in tanking abilities (and even then, still pretty damn close to useless) heavy armor doesn't matter at all. My merc wears heavy armor and still melts when I get focused, but if I could just activate an aoe knockback root and then zoom off I'd be fine.

[WesleyJanson]

This thread should really be deleted to save the original poster any more embarrassment.

 

 

 

This implies I feel embarrassed though. I don't, in fact if you read earlier I'm quite proud of this thread because it's the most popular thread I've ever had. I also feel like we've opened up a good dialogue in regards to ability balance and this thread being moved to the suggestion box makes me feel like this might be seriously considered.

 

 

 

So deleting it would be a bad thing and I'd be very upset.

[WesleyJanson]

I'm sorry, but our shields can't repel derp of that magnitude.

 

 

 

Please contribute in a meaningful manner instead of just calling me a derp.

[Jooji]

This implies I feel embarrassed though. I don't, in fact if you read earlier I'm quite proud of this thread because it's the most popular thread I've ever had. I also feel like we've opened up a good dialogue in regards to ability balance and this thread being moved to the suggestion box makes me feel like this might be seriously considered.

 

 

 

So deleting it would be a bad thing and I'd be very upset.

 

Honestly OP, anyone who's arguing against a sprint nerf IS an inquisitor or consular.

 

I have both a sorc and trooper and the one thing that makes my trooper feel extremely gimp is the lack of sprint, but tbh that's mainly just an issue in huttball. Sprint doesn't add much to void/civil war.

[WesleyJanson]

Oh there's another part of this post I wanted to respond to

 

 

Furthermore- WW stun gives full resolve- meaning once it's done, they can leap you and you can't do anything to them, including no knockbacks.

 

 

This is all well and good except resolve is very broken right now and isn't working the way it should. What happens instead is resolve fills up and then you're still able to be stunned like your resolve bar is empty. We can revisit this issue when resolve is working properly but right now it's too inconsistent for this to be brought up.

[fungihoujo]

Ok I think they're finished

 

 

Anyway

 

 

 

 

 

 

No other class has an aoe knockback root

 

 

No other class has a shield that sucks up all incoming damage

 

 

No other class has all that, plus the stuns they have, plus force speed

 

 

 

You can't look at one aspect of something and compare it to everything else, you have to look at the entire aspect of the class here to understand why it's op

 

 

 

Like I said many, many posts ago, this thing is too good because of the fact that sorcs already have tools that are supposed to do the same thing that force speed does, and then on top of that, they've got the get out of jail free card in the form of force speed. Too much.

 

AoE knockback root- only if you give up any decent healing ability while targetted.

 

Stuns they have- again, to have TWO stuns, the max amount, you give up healing ability while targetted. So, generally, it's ONE stun.

 

AoE knockback is also very short range AND not instant- it's quite easy to grapple or push a sorc and watch them waste it five seconds after they tried to use it when they land.

 

Bubble blocks 3k damage, whoopdedoo.

 

 

If we're goig to play the 'these classes don't have X' game.

 

Sorcs don't have a leap ability, can't grapple enemies to them. Poorest armour mitigation in the game. No defensive CDs beyond the bubble, can't use cover, no ability to become immune to damage, snares, roots or knockbacks for a period of time, no instant aoe unspecced mez, no single target burst ability, burst abilities that crit under 2.5k against same geared enemies. No tanking abilities, no ability that has a gap closer interrupt and snare all in one.

 

I imagine I could go on about things we don't have, since that seems to be the only way you can understand balance is by 'equal and the same', rather than 'different but equal'.

[Ruwe]

I think your thread being moved wasn't necessarily a hint that it's being reviewed mang, it just meant that a mod saw it, read it and decided that it was more in the form of a suggestion than a standard PVP discussion, as in how to win at huttball, voidstar tactics ect. But that's my opinion and everyone's entitled to their own

 

And why would anyone stick up for a sage/sorc but a sage or sorc? Why would any other class in the game care if our speed boost was removed? The only effect it would have for them is to make a squishy class even squishier.

 

But since the Op/Scound nerf happened I guess Sage/Sorc have moved into the lime light of the new QQ class, I am just crossing my fingers that it's not a complete game breaking nerf bat that hits us. Just wait, once the almighty nerf bat hits us, Troopers/BH are next.

[Roldo]

Does the job that other talents should be doing and is way too overpowered, no other class has such an easy escape ability whenever they find themselves out of position or outnumbered

 

 

 

Dear God what the hell were they thinking when they made this ability

 

I didn't bother to read through all of the posts on this thread, but..

 

Marauders have force camo.

 

Ops have vanish.

 

You get 5 golden trollpoints if not one idiot brought this up.

[tXHereticXt]

I wasn't aware you were perfectly fine with broken game mechanics.

 

Broken, you have evidence to prove of this? All I see is your personal dislike towards a skill which is not a valid complaint.

[fungihoujo]

Oh there's another part of this post I wanted to respond to

 

 

 

 

 

This is all well and good except resolve is very broken right now and isn't working the way it should. What happens instead is resolve fills up and then you're still able to be stunned like your resolve bar is empty. We can revisit this issue when resolve is working properly but right now it's too inconsistent for this to be brought up.

 

You think that sucks for you? Imagine how it sucks when I as a light armoured class have a full resolve bar, it's white, I take a step and BAM, sentinel snares me in place and I can't move at all, CC break on CD since I used it to get out of the scoundrel also taking away at my health while I stand there- my resolve ticking down, so I can be stunned the moment resolve's down because it ticked away while I was CCed.

 

Think light armour does squat for me then? Or that 3k bubble?

 

No, resolve hurts everyone, it's not a sorc get it easy card.

[Jooji]

I didn't bother to read through all of the posts on this thread, but..

 

Marauders have force camo.

 

Ops have vanish.

 

You get 5 golden trollpoints if not one idiot brought this up.

 

While I do agree for the sake of survival those abilities are on par with sprint, those abilities can't be used to cheese in huttball, then again any leap ability is just as bad in huttball.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Jooji