What do you want......

[croza]

I've seen enough threads complaining about OP nerf...

come on,, what do you want?

Every stealth you can make a oppoenent dead or half dead is not enough?

There should be a time gap between kills...just be patient and wait for CD...

 

And please don't use PVE as an excuse.

I can argue :why sacrifice PVP for PVE? Since you guys are using the reverse version: Why sacrifice PVE for PVP...

 

finally, as far as I know, those who are complaining about the nerf are almost all OP players...

[AdmiralOnasi]

I want people like you to stop posting abject nonsense about things you don't understand. The reason WE'RE complaining about OUR class is because WE know how OUR class works better than the whiners. And complaining about what it's going to do to my PvE damage is perfectly legitimate because I have NO sustained damage and taking the burst away from a class with NO sustained damage makes that class USELESS.

[Tynis]

I want people like you to stop posting abject nonsense about things you don't understand. The reason WE'RE complaining about OUR class is because WE know how OUR class works better than the whiners. And complaining about what it's going to do to my PvE damage is perfectly legitimate because I have NO sustained damage and taking the burst away from a class with NO sustained damage makes that class USELESS.

 

So lets look at it this way...

 

Everyone is talking about this burst damage. So your class was so important because the damage you can do in the first 3-5secs of a fight? There has got to be more than just that. Does not seem like that is even worth having the class to start with. My point is the class has to have more to offer than 3-5sec worth of damage yes?

[Vashiel]

So lets look at it this way...

 

Everyone is talking about this burst damage. So your class was so important because the damage you can do in the first 3-5secs of a fight? There has got to be more than just that. Does not seem like that is even worth having the class to start with. My point is the class has to have more to offer than 3-5sec worth of damage yes?

 

And that's why we, as Operatives, keep trying to stress our points to you non-Operatives. The class does not offer a form of competitive sustained DPS. None at all. We bring nothing to the table but our burst.

 

If you don't believe me, play an Op and prove me wrong. This is why we are so concerned. Our entire tree is about to be destroyed for both PvE and PvP.

[AdmiralOnasi]

So lets look at it this way...

 

Everyone is talking about this burst damage. So your class was so important because the damage you can do in the first 3-5secs of a fight? There has got to be more than just that. Does not seem like that is even worth having the class to start with. My point is the class has to have more to offer than 3-5sec worth of damage yes?

 

There isn't more damage than that, and I don't understand why this is so difficult for the entirety of the SWTOR forums to understand. Here's what happens after a successful FR/SF/BB opener, I chase you around trying to tickle the remaining health out of you with my abilities that strike with all the force of a wet noodle. You pop cooldowns and run toward teammates because they can protect you and I have no way to win against that. After an unsuccessful opener (like if I have a death wish and attack a tank), you turn toward me, laugh, and then proceed to rip my heart out and show it to me as I die.

 

At least half of the crying/lies about the class come from the absurdly overpopulated Sorcerer/Sage community, a class which just happens to be a high value target due to their light armor and healing abilities. Here's the real problem, a good Op/Scoundrel shows up to ruin your day when he knows the odds are in his favor which is almost always when your metaphorical pants are down around your ankles. This is usually when you are low on health and I want to finish you off, or the Sorcerer has his shield down. The class exists to punish players for playing sloppy, and nerfing the class to the ground is going to make it even easier for Sorcerers and Sages to play fast and loose in warzones.

[Redderic]

im not an operative or scoundrel at all.

i play a shadow.

i think that the nerfs are completely unjust and that those who think that they arent are REALLY bad at their toon and need to learn how to kite them or use ccs till their CDs are spent.

[VoXPCS]

im not an operative or scoundrel at all.

i play a shadow.

i think that the nerfs are completely unjust and that those who think that they arent are REALLY bad at their toon and need to learn how to kite them or use ccs till their CDs are spent.

 

Do yourself a favor and duel an OP 5 times. Gear is irrelevant.

 

While your face down on the ground and your CD is blown, watch your health bar. Where did it go?

 

Better yet, PvP. then post. You obviously haven't or you're on a server that lacks any skilled players whatsoever. After seeing what OPs can do, I avoided making one because I too, would like to EARN my kills.

[Treplos]

Do yourself a favor and duel an OP 5 times. Gear is irrelevant.

 

While your face down on the ground and your CD is blown, watch your health bar. Where did it go?

 

Better yet, PvP. then post. You obviously haven't or you're on a server that lacks any skilled players whatsoever. After seeing what OPs can do, I avoided making one because I too, would like to EARN my kills.

 

I will humor you. Tell me what Warzone is build around 1v1 or duels.

[Optimism]

Do yourself a favor and duel an OP 5 times. Gear is irrelevant.

 

While your face down on the ground and your CD is blown, watch your health bar. Where did it go?

 

Better yet, PvP. then post. You obviously haven't or you're on a server that lacks any skilled players whatsoever. After seeing what OPs can do, I avoided making one because I too, would like to EARN my kills.

 

What do you mean gear is irrelevant? Once my new mercenary got 550+ expertise their burst only takes me down to 75-65%. Maybe down further with the expertise buff. After that it's my ole kiting/knockback/carbonize followed up with tracer missles.

 

And yes I've dueled various champion leveled operatives. If they don't crit on their hidden strike and backstab, they pretty much lose the fight against me. Best is when they vanish and try again for a hidden strike crit but that means the operative has absolutely nothing now.

 

If you're still dying to their burst, get more expertise gear or play better. Pro Tip, you're free to do anything after 3 seconds. If you're still taking damage after 3 seconds, you're not moving and it's a L2P issue.

 

From what I'm reading, the operatives that killed you didn't earn their kill because you didn't really do anything to help yourself =/. Please tell me you're not a sorcerer.

 

And if you're curious, I've rerolled mercenary from my operative and never looking back.

[ExiledOne]

Do yourself a favor and duel an OP 5 times. Gear is irrelevant.

 

While your face down on the ground and your CD is blown, watch your health bar. Where did it go?

 

Better yet, PvP. then post. You obviously haven't or you're on a server that lacks any skilled players whatsoever. After seeing what OPs can do, I avoided making one because I too, would like to EARN my kills.

 

So you don't call Taking An Oppertunity to be earning your kills?

 

So you ONLY attack people at 100% hp, never anyone say at 60% or 30%?

You DIDN'T go after lower levels before hitting 50 bracket?

You always start fights you're not sure you can win?

 

Put it this way, at 49, fighting a champion it takes me 3-5 minutes to down him, why you ask?

 

I have to hidden strike, backstab, shiv, and lacerate. Then debilitate and do the rotation again without HS, you know what skills we have outside of those?

 

Frag Grenade, Rifle Shot, Eviscerate, Carbine Burst (requires Tactical Advantage), Corossive Dart, and Sever Tendon, oh and at 48-49 we get Orbital Strike (1 minute cooldown).

 

That is absolutely it, the entire operative class is DEIGNED to be in 10 meter range around those few stabbing abilities, each has it's own CD along with a GCD, three are conditional.

 

Hidden strike requires Stealth to be used, and to be behind opponent. (Cannot stealth if already in combat unless you use cloaking screen and that resets the mob.)

 

Backstab: requires you to be behind opponent

and Eviscerate: Requiers incapicated opponent (cannot be used against Elites, Champions, or Other Players).

 

No really, you people want to whine and moan about operatives I invite you to play one from 10 to 50, Do it, see how fast you level, see how "awesome" you are, and then realize that in PVP we're not the all god kings of damage.

 

You know what I see topping the 10-49 boards, Sorcerers and Bounty Hunters, that's it.

[benificus]

I have a question: What level of stealth damage do people who want Operatives and Scoundrels nerfed think would be reasonable for those classes to do?

 

This isn't rhetorical; it's a sincere question. I don't play either class so I don't have a horse in this race. But they are a stealth class, and they do thusly need to have some benefit to sneaking up, right? So what do people in favor of this nerf consider a reasonable break even point, where the class gets enough benefit out of a properly arranged sneak attack to be fair to them, but not so much to be unfair to the target?

 

I ask because while I don't doubt -some- nerf is necessary, I also suspect there are people complaining simply because they'll never be satisfied as long as it's possible to be killed by a stealth class. Being taken by surprise sort of sucks, but there needs to be some advantage for stealth classes to do it, or there's no point to them. So what people need to consider is exactly where a fair point for these classes to be is, and not simply assume any time they win a fight in which they've used stealth, that it's an unfair surprise.

 

Again, I'm not asking this to make a point either for or against the nerf, I'm legitimately curious to hear honest answers. What level of advantage to getting the drop on someone with stealth would be fair?

Edited January 27, 2012 by benificus

[croza]

Indeed, I don't know very well about OP class. But, BW knows, and they decided to nerf your class. This is the point, why not nerf sent, or commando (maybe in the future.) BW have data and I think they know OP vey well. So, please stop complaining...