Crafted items are better then Normal raid drops

[Shodori]

He's correct about the Blue -> T1 Purple -> T2 Purple bit, as can be found on the giant Reverse Engineering thread linked above.

 

But re: armor changes, I think a big part of his point is that the T2 Purple crafted item might sometimes have lower base and primary stat than similar raid drop, but it will have secondary stats (like power and defense) and that say +45 each to those two far outweighs a -5 or so in armor value and primary stat.

 

Interesting points, but I agree I'd need to see more data before making up my mind...

 

 

This is why i included the information on how POWER works.. its very important for the community to see why power exists.

 

Power is a generic stat... their system did not include a way to add the Primary stat to an Item so they created a Generic stat that accomplishes the same goal. Its called Power.

 

Test my theory by swapping augments on a piece of gear and watch your calculated damage /heals change their will be a very small difference.

 

Once you get over that descrpency and merely treat power as your primary stat you will see how crafted gear compares to dropped gear.

 

 

Also to my knowledge there is no diminishing returns on power.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Shodori

[Shodori]

Here is a screenshot of going from blue

To epic, Over kill +47 power

, to Epic Superior +47 acc , overkill +Acc = Hawkeye title

, to Epic mastercraft (aug slot) +28 str

 

http://i43.tinypic.com/1tor2b.jpg

 

there is also another example of Some Shadow tank legs, and a list of just some of my light armor purple recipes notices how names change refer to the R/E guide.

 

Also notice that T2 Epics will also require double the previous epic material to craft. Yes.. thats 8 pieces of Iron it will take to make..

Edited January 28, 2012 by Shodori

[Shodori]

Just an FYI for armor makers looking to find profit, Orange bracers and belts are hard to find.

 

 

Make epics of these and they will sell.

 

Earpieces and implants are also hard to find so cyber's and bio's get to making them.

 

Armstech your hosed.

 

Artiface, Shield generators do okay.

[Gnoxx]

The OP is dead right. The only problem is that you're telling everyone my secerts to crafting gear thats better then Raid drops (without raid mats). The only up side to this is that hopefully demand for my wares will go up.

[CriticalMasses]

So if I'm following this correctly you are saying that secondary stats like Power and Def do more than the boosts you get from primary stats like Str. and End. You've tested this with the POWER stat.

 

But what about the def vs. endurance.

 

If this is what you are saying, then I understand, but convincing the general population will be difficult without screenshots to show the differences clearly.

[Shodori]

So if I'm following this correctly you are saying that secondary stats like Power and Def do more than the boosts you get from primary stats like Str. and End. You've tested this with the POWER stat.

 

But what about the def vs. endurance.

 

If this is what you are saying, then I understand, but convincing the general population will be difficult without screenshots to show the differences clearly.

 

 

Tank gear will have higher endurance as their primary stat so you will not see huge endurance gaps.. plus the endurance augs eliminate the gap.

 

PVP gear doesn't have defensive stats usally... you are getting Superior defensive stats with crafted gear and getting more stats then Mod gear

 

I only explained power, And i did not say power was better, power is by my calculation about 90 percent of what your Primary stat.

 

So 70 power for me would be equal to 63 str.

[CriticalMasses]

He's correct about the Blue -> T1 Purple -> T2 Purple bit, as can be found on the giant Reverse Engineering thread linked above.

 

But re: armor changes, I think a big part of his point is that the T2 Purple crafted item might sometimes have lower base and primary stat than similar raid drop, but it will have secondary stats (like power and defense) and that say +45 each to those two far outweighs a -5 or so in armor value and primary stat.

 

Interesting points, but I agree I'd need to see more data before making up my mind...

 

This is true. At some point the base stats mean less than the stats like Power and Defense because of the diminishing returns (+10 End or +66 to defense. Hmm. heh) You may lose a couple points in Str. say, but you add 40 points to Power, which makes up for the str. and then some.

 

Or, you lose 5-10 points of End, but you gain 60 points of Def or Absorb.

 

I've seen this with the implants I have now and the shields I am making.

 

The thing is, the general public, all they see is their primary stats.

 

And yeah, POWER is a huge stat. It's huge for Healers, and Damage dealers and even some tanks that would like to put out more damage but remain tanks. Power is a stat that almost everyone is over-looking right now.

 

But I'm definitely following what you are saying and what I can agree with is that this makes crafted gear equal in many respects to a lot of raid gear. My only issue is the cost to us as crafters to keep RE'ing the items until we get the secondary stats that we went so that the item is tailored better.

 

And then getting the general populace to see that all that PVP gear may not be as great as they thought it was.

Edited January 29, 2012 by CriticalMasses

[Shodori]

CriticalMasses is right

 

That is the point of this post to bring to light to the crafters of how these stats work and what we are making is viable.

 

We have to turn the opinion of our gear we make around for the crafting community first...

 

Once we stop saying our crafted gear sucks we can spread the word of how awesome it really is.

 

 

This does not fix the flaws in reverse engineering, the relearning of recipes already known.

 

That is a different fight... Start making awesome things push it.. REBEL against mod armor

 

I am in full crafted + my 2 piece tier drop.

 

RIP AGRO off tanks and say i'm doing this with my Awesome crafted gear.

 

Be an awesome tank with your ungodly defensive stats ... You just have to craft the right combo.

 

We just need the right campaign... be the flag bearer for your server and get people to the GTN instead of those mod vendors.

 

FYI.. 700k in sales just today.

[lykor]

Cool, looks like I took the right decision for me going Armormech.

 

What about PVP though, can we craft viable pvp items? Or are professions like Sythweaving and Armormech only PVE oriented?

 

Thanks for this post!

[Shodori]

PVP Items

 

 

 

People really don't go after PVP items till level 50 because they know they will just out level their gear at lower levels. So most people will pvp usually in just PVE gear to have a little fun before 50 , ecluding the people that will try to level off just PVP which are totally missing out on the real game and story.

 

 

Post 50

 

Here is what i have learned from my PVP friends. If you have all the expertise gear you will have around 11 percent bonus damage/heals vs players and 11 percent damage reduction from players hitting you.

 

So if you go against someone in PVE gear you hit 11 percent harder and take 11 percent less damage.

 

if you go against someone in PVP gear its an even fight.

 

 

Now given that PVE stats give you higher hit percentages, overall higher damage stats its kinda sucked away by their Reduction.. and your pve gear gives you no defensive protection.

 

I fight in my PVE gear and usually in the top 5 for damage.. which is okay i think as a sentinal , not having ranged attacks or stuns.

 

As far as i know my guildies raid in their PVE gear , we are working on hard modes now though we are fully normal moded out and the stats are just better then our PVP gear we think.

 

So in the end.. Crafted will be better then fighting in dropped rares and not fully upgraded mod gear, but isn't designed to beat pvp gear in pvp.

[lykor]

PVP Items

 

 

 

People really don't go after PVP items till level 50 because they know they will just out level their gear at lower levels. So most people will pvp usually in just PVE gear to have a little fun before 50 , ecluding the people that will try to level off just PVP which are totally missing out on the real game and story.

 

 

Post 50

 

Here is what i have learned from my PVP friends. If you have all the expertise gear you will have around 11 percent bonus damage/heals vs players and 11 percent damage reduction from players hitting you.

 

So if you go against someone in PVE gear you hit 11 percent harder and take 11 percent less damage.

 

if you go against someone in PVP gear its an even fight.

 

 

Now given that PVE stats give you higher hit percentages, overall higher damage stats its kinda sucked away by their Reduction.. and your pve gear gives you no defensive protection.

 

I fight in my PVE gear and usually in the top 5 for damage.. which is okay i think as a sentinal , not having ranged attacks or stuns.

 

As far as i know my guildies raid in their PVE gear , we are working on hard modes now though we are fully normal moded out and the stats are just better then our PVP gear we think.

 

So in the end.. Crafted will be better then fighting in dropped rares and not fully upgraded mod gear, but isn't designed to beat pvp gear in pvp.

 

So I assume that it's not possible to craft PVP gear? Just because I'm thinking of going Cybertech now..just for pvp purposes

Edited January 29, 2012 by lykor

[Shodori]

Nope there are no pvp recipes any crafter can make.

 

only thing really useful for pvp is reusable medpacks for biochem, wouldn't be surprised if they will nerf that soon so everyone has to use the pvp stims/medpacks.

[Battilea]

So if I'm following this correctly you are saying that secondary stats like Power and Def do more than the boosts you get from primary stats like Str. and End. You've tested this with the POWER stat.

 

But what about the def vs. endurance.

 

If this is what you are saying, then I understand, but convincing the general population will be difficult without screenshots to show the differences clearly.

 

Def vs endurance is actually the most obvious and the most clear cut case where the crafted stuff is better, at least when it comes to tanks.

 

When it comes to gearing a tank, the first thing you go for is enough hp to live long enough for the healers to heal you, survive some spikes, that sort of thing. The amount of hp this requires varies based on content, but there's usually some goal, that is below what the max you can achieve is. If you cannot live long enough to get healed, you are not a good choice to soak hits. Once you hit that goal, the next step is increasing your aggro to a sufficient level. A tank needs to be able to acquire and hold it. Otherwise, he's just a crappy DPS with higher survivability. And once those two goals are met, it is about making the life of healers easier. This means lowering the damage you take, possibly tacking on some more safety margin (aka more hp), that sort of thing.

 

Most tanks are pretty tough. They don't have a problem with the first criteria. They also have enough threat output, though Juggs are worse off than the others, an issue the devs are aware of. And that means damage reduction time, because the less damage you take, the more powerful healing becomes, the less HPS is needed to keep you up.

 

Since neither earrings nor implants have armor values, they make the best choice to switch over first. Same deal with shield generators, I'd guess, except willpower tanks don't get that choice currently.

 

That said, the one big horrible flaw in all this though is that, for crafted gear to really be viable, it needs that augment slot. And the chance of critting on this stuff is way, way too low. I've made a lot of purple earrings. I've critted all of 3.

[Shodori]

I dealt with this argument all the time in WoW with my DK tank , that useless blood shield that was only absorbing 20 percent of their deathstrikes over the last 5 seconds which meant like a 2khps compared to actually dodging a 50k hit.

 

Tank crafted gear has 82 end base, when you slap in a 28 endurance augment they go up to 110 endurance.

 

Also aug slots on bracers and belts supply a FAR bigger advantage because stats are smaller on those items, but augs stay the same. So yeah when you slam a 28 endurance bracer in those peices and rock 90 endurance bracers they are practicly BIS let alone the extra stats you get

 

http://i42.tinypic.com/5bemok.jpg

Edited January 29, 2012 by Shodori

[Shodori]

I will be posting a screenshot of all my sales that happened today... get ready for a surprise.

 

all the items were crafted items.

[Amdarius]

This is a very helpful thread. Thank you.

[pokota]

Just an FYI for armor makers looking to find profit, Orange bracers and belts are hard to find.

 

 

Make epics of these and they will sell.

 

Earpieces and implants are also hard to find so cyber's and bio's get to making them.

 

Armstech your hosed.

 

Artiface, Shield generators do okay.

 

While I would kill for an Orange belt, purple earpieces aren't hard to find. I keep them up on the GTN constantly, and they don't really sell very well.

 

If you're talking about purple earpieces with augment slots, then yeah, there is a very good reason they're hard to find. I chew through zal alloy like crazy, and for every Mastercraft I get, I have ten pieces with no slot. I have an entire bay filled with unslotted purples that I will probably have to end up REing soon. Frankly, it sucks.

[firesprite_ea]

On the topic of orange belts. It is another thing that is a bit unfair right now.

There are heavy armour belts (seen only jedi knight variants), on The Progenitor the sell for 100k a piece, same as the bracers.

THere are medium belts / brecars that are CLASS restricted to soundrels so no goodies for sentinels (yes, I am one) - same price.

And .... there are light armour moddable social belts that cost 60 commendations..... and are moddable... and available to all light armour users.

 

So again, social armour is gimped to all but light armour users

[DamienStark]

This is why i included the information on how POWER works.. its very important for the community to see why power exists.

 

Right, I understand and agree with your point about Power.

When I say I'm looking for more data, I mean more specific examples of T2 crafted stuff (and did it come from Crew Skill Trainer schem, or rare dropped schem?) and comparison to specific high-end PVP or PVE gear.

 

I agree with you that I'd rather have an item with 95 armor and 95 primary stat plus 50 power and 50 crit or surge, as opposed to an item with 105 armor and 105 primary but no power/crit/surge. I'm just not sure if that's the real apples to apples comparison. Most of the PVP 50 gear has high primaries plus some secondaries (power/crit/surge depending on which set you pick)

 

And as another person commented, to compare to PVP you have to overcome the Expertise gap. I'd actually prefer gear with 8% higher stats and no Expertise, that way I can wear that same gear in PVP and PVE/questing. But if's a question of equal stats and no Expertise, that would make PVP rough...

[Forkrul]

Have anyone tried REing the blue lightsabers you can craft (costing 3 biometric alloys)? I'd like to know if there actually is a chance of improving it before I spend 3 more alloys on it.

[Shodori]

Have anyone tried REing the blue lightsabers you can craft (costing 3 biometric alloys)? I'd like to know if there actually is a chance of improving it before I spend 3 more alloys on it.

 

I know you can craft those special peices and get an aug slot... as for artificing I don't know and most don't have the mats to try multiple times.

[livnthedream]

Have anyone tried REing the blue lightsabers you can craft (costing 3 biometric alloys)? I'd like to know if there actually is a chance of improving it before I spend 3 more alloys on it.

 

as shadori said you can crit and get an aug slot, problem is the t2 weps are still better atm due to sheer weapon range. there are no hilts that match up to that level. however once there are they basically become bis

[KiranK]

A big portion of this effect is that a lot of raid drops are very poorly itemized. Rakata gear in general has schizophrenic stats. My tank gear has surge on it. Surge? Really? Why in the hell would I want that? Some of the Columi gear is the same way. I wouldn't object to there being a way to modify drop stats, much like there is in WoW(yes I know, I said the "W" word), and the raid gear being re-itemized to actually make sense. I also wouldn't object to a total crafting system over haul. For some items, yes, crafted can actually be better, but not for all of them. The rare drop sentinel head piece actually has more end than str. Uhm... why is that? Why would a sentinel want to stack end?