Forsbacka Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 You didnt even play and you know all these things about it. I played for 10 years, quitting briefly for other games. Tried WoW, tried AoC, WAR, SWG. I had fun on other games but the PvP was always lacking. I love the PvP in this game, its just the gear. If you never played the game you wouldnt undertsand how people feel about it. Sure it had 250k at peak but millions have played it through the years. Its not huge on PvE although you have to PvE for certain items. Its end game PvP is untouched by anything else that has come out yet. How you mean untouched? Lots of players left from DAOC to WoW where only less than 1% of people had access to best PvP and Pve gear in vanilla. I would like to see "earning" gear going to that direction in MMOs of these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tic- Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Failed hard means in my book that if game of this genre loses over haf of its players in 3 years time span. What coems to part what it is now, im sure there is less than 5k people playing lots of other "greates" games of all times also. Ahh, so you mean Trials of Atlantis "failed Hard"... I guess i could agree with that, and I'm sure more than a few agree. But to say that DAoC failed hard is a pretty big stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bejay Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 i cant say anything about TORs end game yet cause im only 46 but in wow once u get to 85 every1 is running around in endgame gear that is identical for each class,i like modded gear now because u can get a look that u like and look different from any1 else.can u still do that at 50 or is every1 stuck looking the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I wish crafting was more useful than it is in it's current form. Don't get me wrong on that. I just don't think that for the most part gear from crafting should be comparable to gear gained from PVP or PVE. In PVE you need gear to take on more challenging content so you should be doing the content to gain the gear to begin with. Maybe a middle of the road approach would work where a slot or two could be comparable BIS. WOW did this somewhat with having crafted boots, for example, be close to BIS. Or, sorry to use the WOW reference again, but something like JC or Enchanting were crafts that absolutely were necessary to players participating in PVP and PVE at a high level. Wasn't necessary to be one yourself, but definitely needed to buy gems or enchants from one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsbacka Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Nope, not buying that argument. Crafting sucks, regardless of how it's implemented. Make the top crafted stuff that is equivilent to PvP /raid gear bind on create so they can't sell it. For me, I'll raid regardless. I'll PvP regardless. I value those modes of end-game content because they are fun, not because I'm chasing a digital piece of armor. Where else are you going to USE such high end gear except in PVP or raids, anyway? There's certainly no questing you can do at 50 except daillies, lol. Maybe you wold do end game then ut majority wouldnt. Wzs would be empty if people could get same gear by buying em from AH or via crafting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HileyQuiggley Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 Do you really not get it? It's very simple: People would just stop raiding / pvping. There are a lot of people who only participate in those activities because of the loot. And they are in the same groups / guilds with people who enjoy the challenge in raiding / pvping itself. And all those groups / guilds would fall apart if the best gear could be acquired from somewhere else. Would people visit operations? Yes. But how many times? And also in HM/NM? Not as much as today I'd say. BW would have to introduce much more content (which isnt just the same instance with different numbers) compared to now. You cannot give the best gear to people via something "trivial" (asuming it's not bind on acquire) like crafting in a game where the whole endgame content is based upon "Please do flashpoints / operations / warzones". Making crafted gear the best wouldnt stop all that from happening. Like I said just add a different reward system along with gear. Add Mods or Credits or Speeders, trophies etc ect. There are alot of things that could be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Failed hard means in my book that if game of this genre loses over haf of its players in 3 years time span. What coems to part what it is now, im sure there is less than 5k people playing lots of other "greates" games of all times also. If 500,000 are playing this in three years would TOR have 'failed hard'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HileyQuiggley Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 How you mean untouched? Lots of players left from DAOC to WoW where only less than 1% of people had access to best PvP and Pve gear in vanilla. I would like to see "earning" gear going to that direction in MMOs of these days. Untouched as in, best pvp endgame of any game out. If you pvp and havent played it then you wouldnt understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsbacka Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 If 500,000 are playing this in three years would TOR have 'failed hard'? It would prolly make EA get its money they spent back but since its company that tries to make as much money as they want, it would be atleast huge disappointment for em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsbacka Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Untouched as in, best pvp endgame of any game out. If you pvp and havent played it then you wouldnt understand. I know the basics how it was and discusses it, more so lately, but its PvP endgame hasnt been copied cause there simply aint enough people that wants to do world PvP, take over cities etc. Thats why game developers creates PvP enviroments that appeal the masses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HileyQuiggley Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 It would prolly make EA get its money they spent back but since its company that tries to make as much money as they want, it would be atleast huge disappointment for em. EA does own DAoC also just to throw that out there. They would probably be happy with 500k after 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsbacka Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 EA does own DAoC also just to throw that out there. They would probably be happy with 500k after 3 years. Well keeping it up to less than 5k players aint much cost to em. Even sale figures of 1.5 million copies of this game cause their company to lose 900 million in market value in 1 month since release. Just think how big downhill the stocks would take if they say that they got 500k subs atm or in few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HileyQuiggley Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 I know the basics how it was and discusses it, more so lately, but its PvP endgame hasnt been copied cause there simply aint enough people that wants to do world PvP, take over cities etc. Thats why game developers creates PvP enviroments that appeal the masses. Not sure if you have read much of the boards or not but there are tons of people that want just that. People do want open pvp, people want pve just the same. But there sure as hell is enough that wants it. Look at everyone drooling over GW2. Its a PvP game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsbacka Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Not sure if you have read much of the boards or not but there are tons of people that want just that. People do want open pvp, people want pve just the same. But there sure as hell is enough that wants it. Look at everyone drooling over GW2. Its a PvP game It is, and i like only PvP aspect of these games. But WoW and all its competitors has shown that there is only very little part of player population that wants to do world PvP so its not worth it to make it as pvp "endgame" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HileyQuiggley Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 It is, and i like only PvP aspect of these games. But WoW and all its competitors has shown that there is only very little part of player population that wants to do world PvP so its not worth it to make it as pvp "endgame" WoW is not a PvP game, it is a PvE game. Leave WoW out of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsbacka Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 WoW is not a PvP game, it is a PvE game. Leave WoW out of it Well i just say any MMORPG since DAOC then. If people wanted to do world PvP, they would do and demand it and game developers would make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notebene Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 ... whats the point in end game Raid when you can just make better gear from crafting. From what I keep reading and being told over and over and over again through all the games like this I've played, raiding is awesome, and everyone should want to do it. So wouldn't it be still awesome and challenging and rewarding if I can make a shirt as good as what you get in there? It's my belief that the sub-text of all this is the fact that humans are little green monsters, and sadly for many, reward and achievement are measured in relation to someone else 'not' getting something. It should be enough that you feel satisfied accomplishing something special. Why is there always this "Oh, and I 'realize' that I'm special because I have more of the pie than you, and you couldn't have gotten into the special awesome raiding fraternity anyways, so I win." Which is why we ought to let the bees have a shot at it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aisar Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Humans are competetive by nature. I want to be better than you, look at my shiny suit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HileyQuiggley Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 Humans are competetive by nature. I want to be better than you, look at my shiny suit Have the raid gear look better, i dont care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invitcted Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 The only way crafted gear could be as good as raid gear is if the mats dropped in raid which would make it a moot point since the boss could just drop loot instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsbacka Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 The only way crafted gear could be as good as raid gear is if the mats dropped in raid which would make it a moot point since the boss could just drop loot instead. Could yes, but in that other game also trash dropped mats for some BiS or close to it items. Also boss drops were totally random and lots of people wanting same items but if your guild gave you mats for an item it was 100% "drop". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabe Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 The problem that raiders have is they know that their endgame system is actually crappy. They know that the majority of people that take part in it would no longer do so if there wasn't a shiny that couldn't be gotten anywhere else. That is why they become so aggitated when someone recommends a system that could possibly mess with their inflated egos. There is obviously no intrinsic reward for raiding and as such the participants must be forced to take part in this form of endgame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bladedakoda Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 While i don't agree it should be BIS, i do agree it should be on par with Fp's. I don't agree though that it should be better then raid gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsbacka Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 The problem that raiders have is they know that their endgame system is actually crappy. They know that the majority of people that take part in it would no longer do so if there wasn't a shiny that couldn't be gotten anywhere else. That is why they become so aggitated when someone recommends a system that could possibly mess with their inflated egos. There is obviously no intrinsic reward for raiding and as such the participants must be forced to take part in this form of endgame. Just as same as for PvPrs, WZs would be far more unpopular if it awarded same gear easier from some other venue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Grissom Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Meh The days of crafted being the best (How i love you Ultima Online and miss you dearly) is gone. People now rely on the raid for gear as BIS or DIE. Crafters your gear is not the best. Look, I am better then so and so standing next to me on fleet, or in Stormwind becuase I have the ZOMG BBQ raid gear. The competative nature is what keeps people on the hamster wheel of the gear treadmil. Without the competition people wouldnt play. With the exception of myself of course. Am I competative in video games? No is the simple answer. If I wanted competition, i would do somthing IRL and compete for somthing to better myself and my family. Competition in video games doesnt do that so I live without it. It just isnt worth it to compete for the biggest epeen. So sorry OP. The days of the best gear being aquired from crafters and mmorpgs being about fun and immersion in a different world where you ARE the charcter, are gone, dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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