Sentinal, the general public vs. the elitist minority.

[Wingzeron]

No, if you cant play the class then play something else, there is only ONE class in the game that is even close to having a skill cap and it is sentinels. So goodplayers sacrifice EVERY other class and you want to take away the ONLY one ? stop being so damn selfish, its like little children crying "i want i want"

 

i bet you play single player games on easy or medium setting instead of nightmare or impossible? why ever apply yourself to become better when you can just bring the settings down or cry till its made idiot proof.........

 

YES leave Sentinels/Marauders aloooneeee

[HiroAyami]

I'm honestly in awe of these 400k claims (yes I've seen some substantiated). I've seen videos and honestly the big difference seems to be staying alive and pocket heals. I also think folks are using overload saber and cyclone slash. I further think they must be completely decked out in BM gear to pull this off and are hitting clothies with little or no expertise. I'm thrilled when I hit 250k.

 

You and me both. I recently pulled off 300k on my Sentinel with a Shadow friend and a skilled Sage (I imagine pulling off 170k heals and 100k+ damage most WZ's is pretty good for a sage), otherwise I'm pretty much between 160k-240k per match now. I'd like to think that's... decent considering most Sents on my server are more on the average of 60k-120k. The Imperial Marauders fully geared against us seem to be hitting 280k+ fairly consistently, or we all really suck. Regardless, the only way I was really able to do 300k was just sticking to my guns and killing everything. Screw objective, just interrupt people and kill as many as I could. Dying less than 10 times certainly helped though.

 

Regardless, I'm amazed at claims to 400k, but I can't really dispute them having seen more than a few now that I've really started committing time to PvP. Not at all unexpected I guess, but still, besides videos which, as stated are only so helpful, I'm slowly progressing. I've opted to spend my levels 40-50 in PvP rather than PvE for my Sentinel since I've already done it with my Guardian. I hope this will help my game with a Sentinel a little.

 

That said, is Focus really the best for high damage? There is a Focus Sent/Guardian player on my server and whenever he is on either of his characters in a WZ he's doing upwards of 290k+ every single time. He's also probably that much better than I am, but still, I'm a Watchman and it's pretty tough to keep up the numbers I'm already pulling.

[Wingzeron]

I agree, and i was a 2200+ hunter/druid ... not that either hunter or druid are hard to get to 2200+ on, but the base difficulty is def higher then what i think people are use to. People have to remember that this game is its own entity, so not everything is going to be peaches and cream like it was in WoW, where the devs bent over backwards to make all the casual baddys happy. This is a fresh start, try reteaching yourself to not use those bad habits picked up in other MMO's.(keyboard turning still? really? click more.......?) Try learning how to play starwars instead of basking in your previous glory, because in retrospect everyone is a noob here still, we are all still learning how to play.

 

however, they could make other classes also hard to play like sentinels. casters are auto turning while casting-_-

[HiroAyami]

however, they could make other classes also hard to play like sentinels. casters are auto turning while casting-_-

 

Oh, you mean Tracer Missile wasn't hard enough? /sarcasm.

[Vodrin]

Interesting thread.

 

I think this thread brings up an interesting and valid point, but we need to be very careful here. I've played two classes in other MMO's that were very much like the sentinel. High skill requirement to do well, but very strong if played well. In both those games the class was modified trying to make it more accessible, and in both cases became one of the more OP classes I have seen in any game. This was followed by a heavy handed nerf that left the class weak and easy to play. In both cases I ended up leaving that game.

 

I'm hoping we don't see the same thing here, and I'm reluctant to advocate changing the sentinel. It's not that I don't think making the sentinel easier to play for the "average" player is a bad thing, I just doubt bioware's ability to pull it off without making the class way too strong for the skilled players thus leading to a heavy nerf.

 

Some quick tips for those looking to get better. I have more than 30 keybinds I use regularly in PvP, so figure out a setup that allows this kind of thing and go for it (I use a G13 keypad, but a standard keyboard works just fine with some creative keybinds). Also, never force leap to a target unless you are sure they already burned their knockback. Force cammoflage is great for breaking force lightening on the way to a sorc, and it's fine to stack focus attacking a tough target, and switch to another (preferably one you know has burned some CC's and their bubble already) and unload. And for those that are combat spec, remember that 100% armor penetration means tanks are just as squishy as the guys they guard.

[McVade]

You and me both. I recently pulled off 300k on my Sentinel with a Shadow friend and a skilled Sage (I imagine pulling off 170k heals and 100k+ damage most WZ's is pretty good for a sage), otherwise I'm pretty much between 160k-240k per match now. I'd like to think that's... decent considering most Sents on my server are more on the average of 60k-120k. The Imperial Marauders fully geared against us seem to be hitting 280k+ fairly consistently, or we all really suck. Regardless, the only way I was really able to do 300k was just sticking to my guns and killing everything. Screw objective, just interrupt people and kill as many as I could. Dying less than 10 times certainly helped though.

 

Regardless, I'm amazed at claims to 400k, but I can't really dispute them having seen more than a few now that I've really started committing time to PvP. Not at all unexpected I guess, but still, besides videos which, as stated are only so helpful, I'm slowly progressing. I've opted to spend my levels 40-50 in PvP rather than PvE for my Sentinel since I've already done it with my Guardian. I hope this will help my game with a Sentinel a little.

 

That said, is Focus really the best for high damage? There is a Focus Sent/Guardian player on my server and whenever he is on either of his characters in a WZ he's doing upwards of 290k+ every single time. He's also probably that much better than I am, but still, I'm a Watchman and it's pretty tough to keep up the numbers I'm already pulling.

 

Focus is kinda gimmicky. It encourages suicidal tactics in order to get decent damage. If you can get off a Biochem+ Expertise Buff + Relic + Force Sweep on 5 or so people, you're gonna hit for a ton of damage. 25k easy in one move.

 

In either case, to pull high numbers, you run into a pack of dense Imperials, wait 4-5 seconds for Force Exhaustion or Stasis to tick through, then Force Sweep. Do the math. Once done, you typically get a free ride back to the spawn point.

Edited January 28, 2012 by McVade

[ReithKanaka]

Interesting thread.

 

I think this thread brings up an interesting and valid point, but we need to be very careful here. I've played two classes in other MMO's that were very much like the sentinel. High skill requirement to do well, but very strong if played well. In both those games the class was modified trying to make it more accessible, and in both cases became one of the more OP classes I have seen in any game. This was followed by a heavy handed nerf that left the class weak and easy to play. In both cases I ended up leaving that game.

 

I'm hoping we don't see the same thing here, and I'm reluctant to advocate changing the sentinel. It's not that I don't think making the sentinel easier to play for the "average" player is a bad thing, I just doubt bioware's ability to pull it off without making the class way too strong for the skilled players thus leading to a heavy nerf.

 

Some quick tips for those looking to get better. I have more than 30 keybinds I use regularly in PvP, so figure out a setup that allows this kind of thing and go for it (I use a G13 keypad, but a standard keyboard works just fine with some creative keybinds). Also, never force leap to a target unless you are sure they already burned their knockback. Force cammoflage is great for breaking force lightening on the way to a sorc, and it's fine to stack focus attacking a tough target, and switch to another (preferably one you know has burned some CC's and their bubble already) and unload. And for those that are combat spec, remember that 100% armor penetration means tanks are just as squishy as the guys they guard.

 

A very thought out post. You and I think differently.

 

Hoping to see more posts like this.

[Nyteblades]

I wish more people would ask the devs for this.

 

That being said if you think about it the one thing to me that would help sents/maras without taking away from thier over all complexity yet also making them easier for the casual player.

 

Would be to give force push we had in beta back. With the push reset of leap it would help in so many ways to close gaps buy time and make movement room during pvp and pve.

 

But with so many ccs stuns and slows it wouldnt make us over powered nor would it take away from the needs of a skilled player to be a very good sentinel.

 

But what it would do is make it easier for casual players to enjoy the class.

[Cancerianmoth]

I'm no pro either- but slowly I'm getting higher on the war zones (the more abilities we get the better we get). However as I pve in flash points and pvp in the war zones its becoming very clear to me that maybe we aren't as pure of an dps class like we think we are. I think we are more support/dps. When I realized this I did alot better in pvp. I tried my best to focus on interrupts and getting my transcendence up. Because as long as you do Dmg and stick with the group, you'll get alot more medals this way. Or atleast I do. Transcedance counts towards defensive medals right? Because that's why I think I get so many of them.

[Strah]

I've got a valor rank 4x BH and currently playing a valor rank 53 sniper.

My friend recently rolled a marauder.

I was laughing at that at first, but now and again i'm watching him play, am dueling him constantly, and am paying more attention to marauders on warzones trying to pull them off and engage in 1v1 with them.

 

There is no other class but ops/scoundrels (that are getting nerfed) who can handle me as easy as marauders and sentinels. I'm not saying what they can do with a pocket healer considering they've got endless resources unlike other classes.

 

 

In the hands of a skilled player sentinels and marauders are a wrecking ball, and that is why i am rerolling one tomorrow.

 

 

That applies to PVE as well.

We always challenged each other on who can kill x faster ( hard move ev infernal council for example ), and he was always close to my sniper, even though i'm considerably better geared, and i do run out of resources eventually.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Strah

[pagansaint]

Making the class simple would be ripping away much of the reason the people who play sent/mara play the class.

 

There isn't a compelling reason given yet to make the class easier to excel with that I've read to date. The complaints of needing to "work harder" are countered by the rewards for that thought investment.

 

If there was a requirement of hitting exactly the right abilities at exactly the right time with exactly the right gear, then there could be an argument. But you do not need exact timing, perfect gear, or a cookie cutter rotation. So that argument doesn't apply.

 

It is not straight forward. It is not simple. It is challenging. It requires thought. It is why people play the class.

Edited January 28, 2012 by pagansaint

[pagansaint]

Focus is kinda gimmicky. It encourages suicidal tactics in order to get decent damage. If you can get off a Biochem+ Expertise Buff + Relic + Force Sweep on 5 or so people, you're gonna hit for a ton of damage. 25k easy in one move.

 

In either case, to pull high numbers, you run into a pack of dense Imperials, wait 4-5 seconds for Force Exhaustion or Stasis to tick through, then Force Sweep. Do the math. Once done, you typically get a free ride back to the spawn point.

 

If you're solo diving, yeah that is going to go for every class. How is it exactly a problem with one specifically?

[Toppins]

I love the complexity of this class and would be sorely disappointed if the "general public" gets its way. This isn't even about damage numbers in a warzone. There is exactly 1 class in this game that gives a [Watchman] Sentinel problems (Sniper), and in every other case the Sentinel has the advantage (Assassin, Powertech, Juggernaut, Operative), or a huge advantage (Mercenary and Sorceror). By the way, those two classes are the most played and most complained about classes the Empire has right now... so... playing a Sentinel just feels like easy-mode right now. That's not even getting into how perfectly suited Sentinels are to shutting down healers.

 

Maybe if the Combat tree turned into a truly different playstyle that was easier and worked well in PvP it would be OK, but if general Sentinel abilities were made easier... oh geez, nerfs would come down hard about two months later.

 

I'm confident that, given time, more people will have success with this class. Even "average" players. Do they have the patience to stick with it? I don't know.

 

Fundamentally changing this class will kill its appeal.

[McVade]

If you're solo diving, yeah that is going to go for every class. How is it exactly a problem with one specifically?

 

As a Watchman, I don't run into a group of 5 Imperials. I'm better off waiting for people to pick targets then going on a healer.

[bevelian]

had an on off relationship with my 50 sent. heres my 2 cents (BOOM! anyway, srs bisniss)

 

its not cool to have that ONE CLASS that is hard as hell to play. that means you pretty much have to revise for a class as you would an end of year physical examination, or you have to shell out X amount MORE money on a crazy game peripheral to play the damn class.

 

im pretty sure BW wanted this game to be accessible. that was the whole point. casual gamers could play and enjoy it. its frickin star wars not some elitist fantasy game with elves and orcs and the like. its one of the biggest franchises on the planet.

 

people are still posting in here trying to make out its a good thing its really hard to play, and start dishing out numbers they've hit, medals they've earned, mainly in other threads. dont get me wrong on a few occasions ive come in the top 5 on a WZ, but its been through a bit of luck and randomly being able to remember all the keybinds i have to press.

 

i get that elitists want a class they can play. but in the long run, for a bigger market audience, and for people who havent read this forum or played any of the classes yet, why would you keep 1 class that looks pretty cool (2 lightsab0rz lolzzz) and make it very hard to use? that'd turn alot of casual players off and they'll cancel after their free month.

 

i cringe every time i see someone post up the numbers they hit like its proving that actually the class is amazing 'when used well'. not sure why people get off on posting how good they are with a hard class, maybe it gets them off. maybe one of them can tell us at some point in this thread.

Edited January 28, 2012 by bevelian

[Jooommm]

funny how every class in this game is being called the weakest.

[-Arcane-]

The sheer volume of players that think sentinel is weak is realy quite funny.

 

 

 

Sort your gear out - understand the stat values and weighting and at what point one stat becomes more valuable than others, just because you got a battlemaster item dosent mean the stats/mods are correct for min/max gameplay.

 

Learn your rotations - so that you are watching the action not your force bar, this is very important.

 

Enjoy pulling 400k~ or more in warzones and winning 1v2 (or 1v3's vs bads) with no issues whatsoever.

 

Practice makes perfect - Sentinel is not the most simple class to play, you have a lot of buttons and the skill curve is quite high. If someone beats you consider what you could have done better, would a different spec have worked better? could you have interupted better? used your defensive cd's in a different order or at different times?

 

 

It is things like this that make the difference between a sentinel that is an unstoppable killing machine, or a squishey melee dps.

 

 

All of the sentinel specs are viable for pvp, though I think the highest overall dps spec is focus given the sheer aoe dps and the nature of pvp, though combat and watchman also are easily capable of melting faces (5.6k MS in Watchman ftw).

 

 

To those of you struggling with sentinel keep going! Once you master it you should be topping the dps meters in most warzones and capable of soloing any class.

 

 

 

No changes are required, the class is totally fine as im sure all skilled sentinels will agree.

[Renlotho]

How do you know what the stat caps are? Would you mind sharing them (eg str soft caps at 1500)? What secondary stats do you recommend in order after str/end (eg power/crit/surge/acc)? Any other advice you want to dole out? The more specific the better.

[Frontplayer]

when I started out with my Sentinel I wanted to throw him in a corner and be done with it.

 

It was very difficult for me to beat same level strong mobs + 1 weak and elite mobs were a no go without all cooldowns and a decend med pack.

 

But I stuck with it cos I was simply facinated by the dual lightsaber combat.

 

And as I progressed and stoped caring about "how do other classes steamroll their targets" I was able to learn how the sentinel worked. I realized that I was trying to apply either WoW class thinking or Trooper (my other class I play) to the Sentinel. And naturally I hit a wall with this approach.

 

Yes, the Sentinel has double the skills to be used in fights than a Trooper. But it´s nowhere near impossible to handle them. And I am starting to appreciate the diversity a lot now.

 

I also think that another important factor why the Sentinel feels underpowered in general is that we get our healing companion relatively late. When I was running with my Trooper + healing companion I had no downtime whatsoever and cut through mobs without any problems.

 

I´m not an elitist at all but my bottomline is the same:

Learn to play the Sentinel like a Sentinel and do not try to apply other classes principles and playstyles to the Sentinel and complain that they don´t work.

 

I´m nowhere close to these weird numbers people are posting here. I personally have seen only very few Sentinels going past 250k. But then I´m not too often in warzones these days.

 

Yes you are a melee class and you cannot stand in the second row and keep dealing 75% of your max damage as my Vanguard can. And therefore you will get hammered more often. But that cannot be solved by changing the class mechanics.

[Helig]

The sheer volume of players that think sentinel is weak is realy quite funny.

 

<.................>

 

No changes are required, the class is totally fine as im sure all skilled sentinels will agree.

 

I have a Guardian and a Marauder - and I love both to bits. Both are extremely dynamic and complex, and I enjoy the fact that I have more than 4-5 buttons to push regularly (3.5 bars bound on both characters).

 

It's not a typical MMO fighter class. It's not well-suited for new players. But a lot of new players insist on rolling it because glowsticks are awesome and two glowsticks are better than one. They quickly find out that they get flattened by other classes\challenging class content and they start flooding forums with tears, calling people who actually took the effort to learn the class "elitists".

 

Bottomline - Knight\Warrior ACs are late-bloomers, level and gear-wise, with a steep learning curve. Accept them for what they are or roll something that is easier to handle.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Helig

[Nariyna]

I play a Sentinal. I have to say as long as you dont get hit with the delay bug on your abilities, you are doing good. Leveling was very difficult due to bugs, lack of a healer early on, and the ability delay bug, and having to heal after every fight (annoying) but Bioware is fixing those issue so my Sentinal is becoming more fun to play. I still get the ability delay bug on Ilum, but very rarely on Blesavis. I just ignore Ilum for now until they fix it. If you get the ability delay bug, you are toast. I do wish they would buff the off hand light saber some.

[yokubou]

I see a lot of people care about the damage done they have in scoreboard. Some even go Smash spec so they can see big numbers. That's not the point.

 

I usually have 140-180k damage on huttball, but I focus on scoring ball and I hardly meet someone who can kill me, unless it's 1v3 1v4, but I still manage to run away thanks to all of my cooldowns. I just run around melting everyone who stands in my way, not doing any stupid DPS races. Speeding up Ball Carrier or myself with improved Predation (80% speed)

 

Of course I can go around and just DPS healers while they heal themselves and randomly dps everyone around in tunnel vision.

 

But is the top damage what makes class good and strong ? It's not.

Edited January 29, 2012 by yokubou

[Helig]

I see a lot of people care about the damage done they have in scoreboard. Some even go Smash spec so they can see big numbers. That's not the point.

 

I usually have 140-180k damage on huttball, but I focus on scoring ball and I hardly meet someone who can kill me, unless it's 1v3 1v4, but I still manage to run away thanks to all of my cooldowns. I just run around melting everyone who stands in my way, not doing any stupid DPS races. Speeding up Ball Carrier or myself with improved Predation (80% speed)

 

Of course I can go around and just DPS healers while they heal themselves and randomly dps everyone around in tunnel vision.

 

But is the top damage what makes class good and strong ? It's not.

 

This one speaks wisdom. This one understands.

[Metallistic]

Enjoy pulling 400k~ or more in warzones and winning 1v2 (or 1v3's vs bads) with no issues whatsoever.

Do that against equally geared opponents, who have a basic idea of how to play their class.

 

Such statements that you provide as facts look really silly.

[-Arcane-]

Do that against equally geared opponents, who have a basic idea of how to play their class.

 

Such statements that you provide as facts look really silly.

 

 

This IS FACT.

 

Focus spec average warzone damage 400k+ (I see people on my server pulling 500k+ average on voidstar)

 

Watchman average warzone damage 350k+ 100k+ healing

 

Combat average warzone damage 300k+

 

 

 

Just because you cannot pull these numbers does not mean it is impossible.

 

 

And since the lvl 50 bracket all opponents are "equal"