Anyone else think SWToR is too easy and more of the same?

[Finious]

I understand the argument of the OP. As an old EQ vet myself I would love to see a new game release that brings back the art of leveling by farming mobs. I miss the days of a group camping on a huge rock or "safe spot" while the tank runs in to a castle or dungeon and pulls mobs back for the killing. There was a social aspect to it that you dont get anymore.

 

On the flip side I dont ever see that coming back and I avoid wasting dreams on it.

 

Today's generation is all about instant gratification in a "go go go go go" manner. For games to succeed big and make lots of money they must appeal to the majority which is always going to be the teens.

 

Im sorry but dinosaurs like us are a small percentage of the player base. Even tho i didnt read all the posts for this thread, im sure its full of kids saying "QQ, go back to EQ then, just quit!" and honestly they have the right to. This is their generation now, and just like movies and music, that will remain to be painfully obvious to us wishing we could get back what we once loved.

 

Sorry...

 

 

On a second note. I think BW has done a great job and has beat out all the other GO GO GO GO gen mmos.

Just be glad we have massive zones and slow travel methods like the old days.

[Benagain]

its not about just having a challenge, its about doing stuff that actually matters...

 

as it stands nothing you do in the game really impacts the world or other players (even on PVP servers which is ridiculous)

 

there is no need for an in-game community, no player politics, etc...the whole FP, WZ, instanced structure makes it more like a single player game with a co-op option rather than an mmorpg

 

What you say is true. As I mentioned in my post is that this game like others is very enjoyable to play solo and gives me the optin to group up or pvp on the side.

 

You are among many who may prefer the older way of you-better-get-in-a-group-to-most-crap-done way of playing. I simply don't have the free time to play like that. Luckily for me there seem to be more of my gaming type than yours and Bioware is naturallly going to cater to the group whole will bring in the most profit. I feel bad for you, but as long as the game is like it is now, then I'll have a sub for years.

[Semihages]

Hold on a sec.. Are you saying NM/HM Operations aren't hard enough?

[Skoll]

Perhaps you should consider switching to Korean MMOs. They looooove that grind-til-you-want-to-stab-yourself-repeatedly-in-the-face-with-a-pencil style of 'gameplay'.

[Ansultares]

In response to your thread title, I agree, SWTOR is too easy and more of the same.

 

I disagree with some of the points you raise, but it's more important to break the genre out of this easymode rut.

 

They looooove that grind-til-you-want-to-stab-yourself-repeatedly-in-the-face-with-a-pencil style of 'gameplay'.

Nice logical fallacy; more grind does not equal Korean levels of grind.

 

And he raises a good point in that we're currently just grinding quests. Few of the quests I did on my juggernaut were even interesting.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Ansultares

[Minguss]

IMO this game is 5 years too late, and i agree with, too easy. Not even a voice system? cmon...

 

The engine is not bad, the launch was pretty good IMO, the bugs are not game killers, its just the simplicity and lack of features that is a killer.

[Benagain]

I understand the argument of the OP. As an old EQ vet myself I would love to see a new game release that brings back the art of leveling by farming mobs. I miss the days of a group camping on a huge rock or "safe spot" while the tank runs in to a castle or dungeon and pulls mobs back for the killing. There was a social aspect to it that you dont get anymore.

 

On the flip side I dont ever see that coming back and I avoid wasting dreams on it.

 

Today's generation is all about instant gratification in a "go go go go go" manner. For games to succeed big and make lots of money they must appeal to the majority which is always going to be the teens.

 

Im sorry but dinosaurs like us are a small percentage of the player base. Even tho i didnt read all the posts for this thread, im sure its full of kids saying "QQ, go back to EQ then, just quit!" and honestly they have the right to. This is their generation now, and just like movies and music, that will remain to be painfully obvious to us wishing we could get back what we once loved.

 

Sorry...

 

 

On a second note. I think BW has done a great job and has beat out all the other GO GO GO GO gen mmos.

Just be glad we have massive zones and slow travel methods like the old days.

 

I think you're pretty close to being right on the money, but it's not age or maturity that is the factor just play style. I'll gladly admit that I prefer the go go go style of gaming, but I'm 30. I work 40-50 hours a week, and have a wife and baby at home. I can't stand mtv, and I don't know at what point these kids today all started wearing chics pants.

 

I'm almost positive that you're older than I am, but realize that just to be casual doesn't mean your a teen.

[justamemory]

once money is abolished and games are made for enrichment maybe then whipped developers won't pander to lobotomized majorities for dollar signs. Edited January 26, 2012 by justamemory

[Mannic]

MMO's have been taken over by casuals and carebears. It just is what it is.

 

And triple-A developers continue to chase the dream of WoW-like success and believe that to do so they have to go after those casuals, nevermind the fact that back when WoW released, "casual" was someone who played 20 hours a week, and now "casual" is someone who plays half that.

 

More and more casuals want MMO's to cater to the fact that they really don't have time to play an MMO. Rather than doing everyone a favor and just finding a different hobby, they demand that everything be really milktoast easy so that they don't feel like they are somehow disadvantaged.

[Benagain]

MMO's have been taken over by casuals and carebears. It just is what it is.

 

And triple-A developers continue to chase the dream of WoW-like success and believe that to do so they have to go after those casuals, nevermind the fact that back when WoW released, "casual" was someone who played 20 hours a week, and now "casual" is someone who plays half that.

 

More and more casuals want MMO's to cater to the fact that they really don't have time to play an MMO. Rather than doing everyone a favor and just finding a different hobby, they demand that everything be really milktoast easy so that they don't feel like they are somehow disadvantaged.

 

I don't demand anything. If the game is enjoyable to me then I'll play. If not then I'll play an offline game. I have no problem with that. The truth is quite simple. More people like to play casually like me than like you. To put 20 or more hours into any game is silly to me. Good lord man that's a part time job.

[gurugeorge]

MMO's have been taken over by casuals and carebears. It just is what it is.

 

And triple-A developers continue to chase the dream of WoW-like success and believe that to do so they have to go after those casuals, nevermind the fact that back when WoW released, "casual" was someone who played 20 hours a week, and now "casual" is someone who plays half that.

 

More and more casuals want MMO's to cater to the fact that they really don't have time to play an MMO. Rather than doing everyone a favor and just finding a different hobby, they demand that everything be really milktoast easy so that they don't feel like they are somehow disadvantaged.

 

There's nothing in the very idea of massively multiplayer online roleplaying games that necessitates that they be a second job You are not a better person for being able to spend umpteen hours a day on a videogame.

 

Lots of players want a virtual world that they can dip into, not a virtual world that's a Second Life (with combat).

 

You win some, you lose some - having said that, there are still some hardcore MMOs around (EVE, Darkfall, MO) that will grow with you as you spend lots of time in them.

 

But you can't expect AAA money to go to that sort of game, because there's no AAA audience for those type of games (if there were, we would already have seen it).

[Finious]

I think you're pretty close to being right on the money, but it's not age or maturity that is the factor just play style. I'll gladly admit that I prefer the go go go style of gaming, but I'm 30. I work 40-50 hours a week, and have a wife and baby at home. I can't stand mtv, and I don't know at what point these kids today all started wearing chics pants.

 

I'm almost positive that you're older than I am, but realize that just to be casual doesn't mean your a teen.

 

Ya I know i was over generalizing. I just enjoy giving the teens a hard time even tho I was one once.

 

I definitely agree with you. I too am married and work many long hours. The whole reason I dont play EQ anymore is for that very reason. And its also for that reason that I will continue to try every mmo that comes out. Im just looking for that perfect balance.

And yes I think BW has a pretty good balance thus far.

 

So heres to few maybe dozen years of SWTOR!

Edited January 26, 2012 by Finious

[Kryp-Tyk]

What you say is true. As I mentioned in my post is that this game like others is very enjoyable to play solo and gives me the optin to group up or pvp on the side.

 

You are among many who may prefer the older way of you-better-get-in-a-group-to-most-crap-done way of playing. I simply don't have the free time to play like that. Luckily for me there seem to be more of my gaming type than yours and Bioware is naturallly going to cater to the group whole will bring in the most profit. I feel bad for you, but as long as the game is like it is now, then I'll have a sub for years.

 

The irony is that I always played solo classes (Necro in EQ) since like you, I am a casual gamer...it took me a very long time to hit 50 in EQ and by then they upped the level cap (I actually never hit max level out in my time there).

 

The first point i raised is about the actual "impact" to the world. For example in EQ my PVE actions impacted the world permanently...as a human necro I was an evil character who couldnt even walk around in my own starter town without getting KOS'd by the town guards! I had to build up faction to eventually be able to walk around in the open.

 

The second point is around the MM part of the MMORPG...what is the point of paying a subscription to play with other people when most of what you do doesn't even require or involve them? The way PVP, warzones, and instances are structured....you might as well be connecting to a 3rd party matchmaking service for a co-op minigame and have the main game be standalone KOTOR3

[LavaMoon]

Ehh, I see everyone's point. I played Darkfall online for a bit, full loot, slow travel, dynamic world content, clan politics etc. Painfully slow to level, had to macro skills to compete.

 

While it was fun while it lasted, I would never want to go through that again. Getting wiped after riding for three hours and having your gear taken away got old. On the flip side it was very rewarding to win. However, you had to live in the game to be a decent player.

 

Us old farts have jobs, wives, girlfriends, some have kids, house notes, car payments etc. We don't live in some basement with nothing else going on in their lives other than gaming. I am not knocking that, I was a college student once and had more free time. I've been unemployed and had lots of free time as well, and the more tedious games appealed to me when I had more free time.

 

I think there can be balance. I would love to see roaming Dynamic mobs like that other space game a few years ago.

 

I'm in my mid 40s in SWTOR and hamsteritis is starting to set in...But im still enjoying it, for what it is...

 

Maybe you outgrow mmos?

[Finious]

While were on the subject of EQ....

 

 

Who would love to see a comeback of the old, "OMG A GIANT F*CKING DRAGON IS ATTACKING QEYNOS!!!!!" scenarios.

 

Just once a month a dev could hop on a pre-made boss like Malgus and storm the fleet with an army of Imps. We have 3 hours to take him down and then he leaves to another server win or lose. If you beat him he drops a massive god mode item and your server is listed on the front page as this months conqueror.

 

Ohh god those were the days....so many deaths. So many broken lives.

[Kryp-Tyk]

While were on the subject of EQ....

 

 

Who would love to see a comeback of the old, "OMG A GIANT F*CKING DRAGON IS ATTACKING QEYNOS!!!!!" scenarios.

 

Just once a month a dev could hop on a pre-made boss like Malgus and storm the fleet with an army of Imps. We have 3 hours to take him down and then he leaves to another server win or lose. If you beat him he drops a massive god mode item and your server is listed on the front page as this months conqueror.

 

Ohh god those were the days....so many deaths. So many broken lives.

 

The sad thing is...with the way everything in this game is segregated (instances, factions, etc..) i wonder if they could actually pull off a true "server-wide" event from even a technical standpoint

[Benagain]

Ya I know i was over generalizing. I just enjoy giving the teens a hard time even tho I was one once.

 

I definitely agree with you. I too am married and work many long hours. The whole reason I dont play EQ anymore is for that very reason. And its also for that reason that I will continue to try every mmo that comes out. Im just looking for that perfect balance.

And yes I think BW has a pretty good balance thus far.

 

So heres to few maybe dozen years of SWTOR!

 

I actually understand you completely and what you say makes sense. I think a lot of people are trying to find that balance of hard enoug to be challenging, but not so hard that you play for hours and get very little done.

 

IMO a lot of people who want mmos to go back to the old way of gaming are probably looking for the same balance. It's just one of those things where once you leave home you can never truly go back again. A sad truth when the world moves on.

[Finious]

It's just one of those things where once you leave home you can never truly go back again. A sad truth when the world moves on.

 

 

So true..

 

 

And yes considering the zoning and technical standpoint of the game, there's very little way this could be implemented.

 

You could however have a massive spawn on a random planet.

This is honestly where I thought RIFT almost did right. Only it could have went further. The beaches would be stormed with water creatures yet the near by city would still stand untouched.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Finious

[Ansultares]

Today's generation is all about instant gratification in a "go go go go go" manner. For games to succeed big and make lots of money they must appeal to the majority which is always going to be the teens.

I disagree; that's a myth, as much as it's a myth that bland, generic easymode was the key to WoW's success. What the genre seems to have done is inappropriately correlate WoW's success with the content Blizzard was releasing at the time they were peaking in subscriptions.

 

Ehh, I see everyone's point. I played Darkfall online for a bit, full loot, slow travel, dynamic world content, clan politics etc. Painfully slow to level, had to macro skills to compete.

 

While it was fun while it lasted, I would never want to go through that again. Getting wiped after riding for three hours and having your gear taken away got old. On the flip side it was very rewarding to win. However, you had to live in the game to be a decent player.

Well, there's a balance somewhere between the two.

 

Darkfall is the furthest end of the spectrum. I don't know if I'd say SWTOR is quite at the opposite end, but it's close.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Ansultares

[Benagain]

The irony is that I always played solo classes (Necro in EQ) since like you, I am a casual gamer...it took me a very long time to hit 50 in EQ and by then they upped the level cap (I actually never hit max level out in my time there).

 

The first point i raised is about the actual "impact" to the world. For example in EQ my PVE actions impacted the world permanently...as a human necro I was an evil character who couldnt even walk around in my own starter town without getting KOS'd by the town guards! I had to build up faction to eventually be able to walk around in the open.

 

The second point is around the MM part of the MMORPG...what is the point of paying a subscription to play with other people when most of what you do doesn't even require or involve them? The way PVP, warzones, and instances are structured....you might as well be connecting to a 3rd party matchmaking service for a co-op minigame and have the main game be standalone KOTOR3

 

I don't think having your actions reflect a more visible impact in the world would be a bad thing necessarily, but would it be enough change in itself to satisfy those "why can't mmos play like they used to" players?

 

Not bashing your idea. I would really like to know if this would make people happy, or cause some problems that I can't predict. I don't see how it would harm my enjoyment of the game so why not.

[Qoojo]

I have seen harder PvE hard fights while leveling in SWTOR than any previous MMO released in the past several years. If you don't have someone telling you the instance fights, those can get real interesting at times too. Once or twice per planet something brings me close to death, which is more than I can about the other MMOs.

 

So no, I really don't have the problems mentioned. I guess you all should move on if you are not having fun.

[Benagain]

So true..

 

 

And yes considering the zoning and technical standpoint of the game, there's very little way this could be implemented.

 

You could however have a massive spawn on a random planet.

This is honestly where I thought RIFT almost did right. Only it could have went further. The beaches would be stormed with water creatures yet the near by city would still stand untouched.

 

I agree. RIFT was on the right track, and I really did enjoy the open world pve aspects, but your right and it needed just a little more help.

[Benagain]

I have seen harder PvE hard fights while leveling in SWTOR than any previous MMO released in the past several years. If you don't have someone telling you the instance fights, those can get real interesting at times too. Once or twice per planet something brings me close to death, which is more than I can about the other MMOs.

 

So no, I really don't have the problems mentioned. I guess you all should move on if you are not having fun.

 

Are you refering to solo pve or group pve content?

[Finious]

One thing I can say, Healing as a trooper in FLashpoints and PVP is really hard and exciting for me. Hard in the sense that not a second goes by that Im not mashing 4-8 hot keys at a time, target changing, LOS'ing enemies, trying to avoid LOS'ing team mates, and managing CC where possible. Its a rush and really exciting just like old times.

 

I cant vouch for the other classes. Tho I can say that Sage seems to have inherited the easy "press this, press this, repeat. I hardly have to look at life totals or change targets" ,method.

 

SO,....if I had a point I guess it would be, ROLL A HARDER CLASS. Which would basically mean a Force Tank or Troop/Hunter Healer. All the dps Force'ers seem to have it pretty easy.

[Ansultares]

I have seen harder PvE hard fights while leveling in SWTOR than any previous MMO released in the past several years.

That's what we're saying; they've gotten too easy.

 

WAR and AoC were both much harder than this; so was pre-BC WoW. This feels more like DAoC, after they put in the personal instances. Actually, it feels alot like that. And it's a fraction of the difficulty of AC, my first MMO (I never did EQ or UO).

 

How do you reconcile this, black bisector? Wouldn't farming green perpendiculars be more satisfying? And don't throw any of that double silver junk in my face; double silver packs are so rare, but really the issue is how they've integrated the content.

 

One thing I don't see anyone pay any heed to is the advanced quest tracker. No one agrees that this really sucks the adventure out of questing? As annoying as it was to check thottbot or alakhazam when a WoW quest wasn't explicit enough in its description, it was still much better than being shown where every quest objective is. It's not even really an option to turn it off in this game, because the quest log information is so sparse because the advanced quest tracker allows it to be. Further, having to check one of those sites, or even just spamming general chat for an answer, is a more social activity than following the advanced quest tracker; years of thottbot comments actually proved to be interesting sometimes, and did play into a sense of community.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Ansultares