Thoughts from an endgame Maurader

[Tazed]

So these are my thoughts after playing in endgame as a maurader about our class. I'm a battlemaster ranked in pvp with expertise close to 700, in pve my guild are up to final bosses in nightmare mode and I have several of the pve T3 pieces as well.

 

 

The thing we have to look at are not those pvp videos where a guy has potions, expertise buffs and critting against lvl 12 as cool as it seems but how to we stack against other WELL GEARED classes. I will elaborate more later

 

 

PVE: As some of you might have heard, this game is extremely melee unfriendly. In eternity vault from the first fight where melee have to avoid stuns and swipes to last boss avoid lighting balls, same goes in the other operation palace again from start to last boss where we have to run to avoid fire and oil. This puts a lot more pressure on healers. Why would they take melee instead of ranged dps? We have no dps meters so can't really tell who does more damage, but as all pvp indicates, range outdps all melee class and they are able to just stand still most of the time and dps while we have to move in an out. As a result, most guilds on my server has very few melee raiding spots. If it wasn't for our bloodthirst, I doubt my guild would bring any mauraders and just all range dps. I don't see a good solution around this since it's good to have encounter mechanics other than just making sure our dps is competitive to ranged.

 

 

PVP: This is where things are very disappointment. Maurader is the ONLY PURE dps class in game, but we don't play that. Any other class have the option to either switch to tank spec or healing spec, but we can only dps, however we are no where near the best dps in actual gameplay. As I mentioned I'm running in champion/battlemaster gear which is near the best pvp gear in game. I have near 17k hp, but an operative can unstealth and with a knock down and 2 backstabs, 2/3 of my hp is gone while I'm just getting up from the knock down. We are BY FAR, the weakest class. If i see a maurader in pvp, I'll go for him first, since I know i can take him down in no time unless he pops undying rage, it's pathetic how weak we are. This a class that can stealth and heal itself, yet can easily burst dps anyday. Operatives/smuggler are not the only class. Try taking on a well geared healer. They can easily out heal our dmg and kite us around with their shield and sprints, nothing we can do. I find this quite pathetic as the dmg class's dps can't beat their healing on a light armor class. Not only with but if they spec dmg, we've all seen the dmg meters in warzones where top dmg ALWAYS comes from ranged. SI/BH can easily break 300k dmg while I RARELY see a melee class break that (we can do it, it just takes a lot of work and luck with people not focusing on us since we're not ranged). We also have difficulty against tank classes. They mitigate physical dmg so well and all of them have great heal cd's that they can outlast us in 1v1s. It's quite frustrating.

 

Now you might be thinking well I've seen mauraders do well. We're not a "bad" class, it's just in comparison to other clases. I do well most wz and have finished 48-0 a couple of times (although never in top cause it's impossible for us to get healing and guardian medals like other classes), it's just that doesn't happen vs. well geared premades.

 

Suggestions: We need more utility in our trees. Talents that make our shields better (not enough to tank) but enough to stand getting dumped on by all classes. We need better escape talent, one of our talent should improve our stealth and perhaps give us damage boost when using it. A talent tree for healing, no necessarily to heal other classes, but a good idea would be a somesort of lifesteal with our dmg attacks. Not to mention knockbacks, other classes have amazing knockbacks, we have intimidating roar which breaks on dmg (force choke doesn't counts since it's channeled).

 

However, the #1 issue is still dmg, our dmg needs to be buffed to make us more competitive with the ranged class. I don't mind having no utility as we all read the description of the class, but if we can't escape/heal/survive then we damn better have the best dps compared to how weak we are. Right now we're not even competitve and we tech. should be the best dmg class. I've tried all talents. Carnage isn't bad for burst dmg, but I've yet to break the 5k dmg single yet with it even with trinkets and bloodthirst while other classes can break that. Rage is too gimicky, why rely on building up stacks to do dmg with an aoe when other classes can just spam chain lighting or backstab right away and rack up insane dmg from afar while untouched? ann is good for 1v1, but not effective for pvp really.

 

 

TLDR: The maurader is prob weakest class in game and seriously need a buff

 

Feel free to contribute to the discussion, but no more posts, I'm lvl 47 and mauraders rock111

[Caliban_Thule]

Snipers are also a pure DPS class.

 

There are 2

[zizzo]

I have pvp a lot and done my share of pve aswell, i kinda feel the same way you do on certain things thats for sure. I have to work twice as hard as many other classes to achieve what other classes get by just playing "casual".

 

Dont rly have anything to complain about in pve, we have enough abilities to do good dps and help out our grp. But pvp can sometimes be a *****..

We have little cc compared to other classes, no doubt about it. But adding more cc into this game is something we should try too stear away from. Its already too many these days.

Maybe giving the marauder some passive cc ressist. Because we are beeing pushed around more then a hutball when we try to fight a well played opposing team.

So either a passive ressist on some sort of cc's, or reduce the 2 min cd on our 1 anti cc.

 

All in all i am happy with the class, i dont feel underpowered. I have played alot of pvp in previous games and i now know how to make a class shine in pvp after some weeks with practise. But the marauder is definetly one of the hardest classes to master atm. So to a casual player this class can be a bit hard to play, its not hard to notice that compared to other classes performance.

 

So conclusion: We dont need to controll other classes any more then we do today.

But i would like to see this class a bit more controllable ( on the behalf of the player himself). With all the cc other classes have it is nearily impossible to achieve anything if you arent so lucky having all your cd ready for action. cc ressist on some sort of cc's would rly help this class gaining a bit more controll. Not saying we should be immune to every cc in the game but i think marauders are tierd of being rooted,knockback'd, stunned,snared and chained cc'd over and over without having anything to push back except raw dps and a 2 min cd anti cc.

[milkey]

cloak of pain immunity to cc. That would make life goooooood.

[zizzo]

cloak of pain immunity to cc. That would make life goooooood.

 

Beeing immune to cc would be a bit too much maybe, but ressist %%% would make things interresting!

[chainsawsamurai]

cloak of pain immunity to cc. That would make life goooooood.

 

Immune to cc for 30 seconds out of every minute? Keep dreaming.

 

I'm not max level with my Mara yet, but already I really wish one of the saber throws generated rage. I think the class would benefit an awful lot from an ability to generate rage at further than 4m.

[zizzo]

Immune to cc for 30 seconds out of every minute? Keep dreaming.

 

I'm not max level with my Mara yet, but already I really wish one of the saber throws generated rage. I think the class would benefit an awful lot from an ability to generate rage at further than 4m.

 

We have charge dont we?

[HBninjaX]

In before the 'marauders are fine' crowd

[Sabbathius]

Immune to cc for 30 seconds out of every minute? Keep dreaming.

 

It's not 30 seconds. It's UP TO 30 seconds. All they have to do is stop hitting you for 6 seconds and it falls off.

 

Besides, Snipers already have a 20 second CC immunity, also on 60 sec cooldown, called Entrench. And lest we forget, a sniper's effective range is 35m.

[Tazed]

Another change that I forgot to mention is the range of our saber throw attacks are a joke.

 

Also the set bonuses for the pvp and pve set makes me wonder if they EVER played a maurader...

[Soulfighter]

i'm a marauder with approximativly the same experience as the OP and i agree with most of his post

 

 

we're basicly a dps class who's melee with less CCs and useful tools while dealing prolly as much dmg as other dps classes in a game where mobs mechanics punish only melees

 

thanks god we have that +15% dmg/heal buff

 

 

i'd like to play with multiple ranged dps who have the same equipement as me and do some test with them to check if there's a real difference though. I know i get agroo all the time solely because of my dmg (or it might be thanks to the heals too, that might be a big problem)

[Sayc]

(we can do it, it just takes a lot of work and luck with people not focusing on us since we're not ranged)

 

I'll be quite honest, I stopped reading when I saw this, coming from a mara with 700 expertise.

[calamatiesend]

I have similar gear, no bm yet since im only valor 58 but getting close. I agree completely with the OP and Soulfighter.

 

Our problem does not lie in single target dps as many people on these forums have clearly pointed out, but time on target vs. ranged classes.

 

If you put me and some of my friends, who are both equally geared sniper and operative, on a single target and let us all attack as much as we want then the dps numbers will be somewhat similar, although i think sniper is outdamaging maras if played well(which doesnt make sense since we are both the only pure dps AC's so we should be equal) i can outdamage the op in a sustained fight.

 

however, now add in that in pvp or pve I have 30% less time on target the sniper due to lack of CC or having to move out of Aoe's than all of a sudden my damage is not anywhere near what they can put out.

 

As stated thank god for bloodthirst because it assures some of us a raid spot..... but we need some small tweaks to increase our utility and damage to keep us on par with ranged classes.

 

do we do a lot of damage...... yes we do but in comparison to other classes in actual combat when you have to move to avoid aoe's or deal with kiting we are not as useful and cannot sustain the same amount of damage.

[LordValkyran]

The fundamental problem with the Maurader is that it is underpowered when COMPAIRED to its rivals.

 

Ive got an assassin which by comparison I can practically "faceroll" to 2K hits every god damn backstab, being the second melee dps class in the game (with tanking options) I can easily outdoo my level 50 maurader with some champion gear.

 

Does that make me a poor player?

 

No, It makes the fundamental design of the spec poor. Maurader has several big problems:

 

- DPS doesnt happen frequently enough, especially for a class dependant on "raw" DPS.

- Cooldowns are FAR too long for melee abilities.

- No CC, no real combat equaliser.

- Both Carnage and Annilhation are utterley broken specs.

 

 

Problems with Carnage:

 

- Too much chance to DPS with cooldowns.

- Not enough consistant DPS when compaired to other classes.

 

Problems with Annihilation:

 

- DOT's tick too slowly to be of any consistant damage against any healers present.

- Most powerful ability has a 12 Second CD if you have used it 3 times, 15 if you havent.

- Again, too much cooldown length.

 

 

Mauraders Need:

 

- Less cooldowns for a class that depends strongly on doing punishing MELEE damage.

- More ways to get up close and personal to the enemy faster and more brutally.

- Being squishy is fine, being squishy and not hurting anyone isnt.

 

All in all id like this class to be a berserker, something that can pound a mass of hp out of anyone that gets too close but lacks the surviability to last long in a fight without support. Right now it got one part right, the latter, it lacks the former.

 

What mauraders need is to be an utterly offencive melee dps class that can PUNISH you with dps in close range but MUST be able to reach that range to balance it.

 

Right now, it does a max of 3K ticks no matter what expertease rating you have, you really will never go that much higher and trust me, I know.

 

I would want my abilities to be able to hit people for 10K a hit, but force me to be in almost dick hairs length with them to do so. This way ranged dps can slow us down while we take quick deaths but if we get close enough, you know to be afraid.

 

Im a maurader, not a school bully.

 

I want to tear somethings heart out and present it to the horror striken face of its owner, not stab it a few times with minor lacerations only for it to laugh and run off with cuts.

[eisteh]

Another change that I forgot to mention is the range of our saber throw attacks are a joke.

 

Also the set bonuses for the pvp and pve set makes me wonder if they EVER played a maurader...

 

Not only the set bonuses are a joke. We don't even have a real set, it's just a weak last minute attempt to put something in that's not even supposed to exist. I mean, cmon, everyone knows that the marauder lacks A LOT of stuff from all kinds of vendors.

[Warlordomega]

The fundamental problem with the Maurader is that it is underpowered when COMPAIRED to its rivals.

 

Ive got an assassin which by comparison I can practically "faceroll" to 2K hits every gosh darn backstab, being the second melee dps class in the game (with tanking options) I can easily outdoo my level 50 maurader with some champion gear.

 

Does that make me a poor player?

 

No, It makes the fundamental design of the spec poor. Maurader has several big problems:

 

- DPS doesnt happen frequently enough, especially for a class dependant on "raw" DPS.

- Cooldowns are FAR too long for melee abilities.

- No CC, no real combat equaliser.

- Both Carnage and Annilhation are utterley broken specs.

 

 

Problems with Carnage:

 

- Too much chance to DPS with cooldowns.

- Not enough consistant DPS when compaired to other classes.

 

Problems with Annihilation:

 

- DOT's tick too slowly to be of any consistant damage against any healers present.

- Most powerful ability has a 12 Second CD if you have used it 3 times, 15 if you havent.

- Again, too much cooldown length.

 

 

Mauraders Need:

 

- Less cooldowns for a class that depends strongly on doing punishing MELEE damage.

- More ways to get up close and personal to the enemy faster and more brutally.

- Being squishy is fine, being squishy and not hurting anyone isnt.

 

All in all id like this class to be a berserker, something that can pound a mass of hp out of anyone that gets too close but lacks the surviability to last long in a fight without support. Right now it got one part right, the latter, it lacks the former.

 

What mauraders need is to be an utterly offencive melee dps class that can PUNISH you with dps in close range but MUST be able to reach that range to balance it.

 

Right now, it does a max of 3K ticks no matter what expertease rating you have, you really will never go that much higher and trust me, I know.

 

I would want my abilities to be able to hit people for 10K a hit, but force me to be in almost dick hairs length with them to do so. This way ranged dps can slow us down while we take quick deaths but if we get close enough, you know to be afraid.

 

Im a maurader, not a school bully.

 

I want to tear somethings heart out and present it to the horror striken face of its owner, not stab it a few times with minor lacerations only for it to laugh and run off with cuts.

 

or it could be nothing and that you excel at the assasin better than you do the mara? as for me i have troubles with the sin and his need to be behind BS but on my mara im just kickin some serious ***

[Beyaco]

At this point, people want to nerf/buff everything. I am here to just show you that it has everything to do with gear and running with competent teammates. You may not be able to play a Sent as good you can play a Scound, does that mean Sent needs a buff or Scound needs a nerf?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZzvhacEdZY&feature=plcp&context=C3bae2a3UDOEgsToPDskI4tX_uVcLNn8ORRjhqLg05

 

 

Sent doing 480k damage with 90k healing. Enjoy, and before anybody jumps to conclusions, this is post 1.1 and against all 50s.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Beyaco

[kashaun]

I'd like to see our saber throw have double the range and rather then watching the hotkey bar for cooldowns and stacks, I'd rather weave attacks together into combos for our heavy hitting attacks and effects. I think the three trees offer enough damage and utility wise, but being nearly entirely melee should include more character visual indicators and animations. Edited January 26, 2012 by kashaun

[bliapis]

with that much support, there is no class that cant excel.

[SirJahi]

ooo how about saber ward actauly being 100% to deflect all ranged attacks and reduce all force / aoe damage by 30%

 

makes no sense why i run around with 2 lightsabers and only deflect with one

 

example.

 

me = rooted vs sniper from afar in cover

 

sniper charges *** lawl shot

me , saber ward

sniper lawl shot!

me, popped in the face....

 

now i know i have other skill obviously which i use now... but the fact is before i had just one light saber and had 50% chance.. now i have 2 and still only 50% chance... WHY?!

 

new saber ward {100% deflection + 50% force and aoe damage reduction}

the skill dosent last long enough for it to be op.

[Hellion_X]

I am as far as you are content and gear-wise. Several Battlemaster pieces and almost all Rakata pieces. I disagree with you on almost everything you have said. I have been playing Annihilation in both PvP/PvE and imo it is the best spec for both.

 

We definitely do the most damage if we can stay on our target. I know for a fact I do the most damage in the PvE operations. There's a reason Force Camoflauge is also a threat reducer. I pull aggro all the time because of our damage output. The fact our damage can still be so high compared to the ranged in PvP means we crush their 1v1 damage (unless you're Rage spec, then it's obviously not 1v1 damage). If you're anywhere near the top damage at the end of a wz and you're Annihilation/Carnage spec, that means even when all the ranged classes doing their AoE attacks, you still managed to come close or even beat them in damage, proving we are the superior 1v1 damage dealers.

 

Here are some screenshots of post 1.1 patch of my Annihilation spec in wz:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/74902119@N02/

 

I average 7-10 medals every wz still (unless it's huttball since I'm usually scoring for us since the Ferocity talent literally wins huttball games). Losing the two medpac medals made it harder. If it is Civil War or Voidstar I ALWAYS get > 300k damage, that is simple, even if I have a bad team and were losing I will still manage to get at least 300k (in a lengthy game, getting streamrolled obviously not). I still get the 5k single hit medal obviously, and yes it still takes all the stims/expertise/adrenal/relic use, but it is easy on light armor classes unless they have a shield, even medium armor you can still get it.

 

I think Marauder class is just fine how it is right now as I obliterate wz with ease. As Annihilation, no one can 1v1 me either, haven't lost a duel in ages. Marauders are gear dependent. If Bioware does end up buffing us more (I won't argue against it and would receive it with a smile) then you will see the people who have Marauder mastered make people scream OP all over the forums.

 

If you would like further proof that Marauders (especially Annihilation, what the streamer uses) are pretty amazing where they are at right now, then watch Stamp's stream:

 

http://www.twitch.tv/glutenfreegaming

 

^ Great guy and an amazing player. I really do encourage any Marauders losing faith to watch his stream.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Hellion_X

[Draexnael]

At this point, people want to nerf/buff everything. I am here to just show you that it has everything to do with gear and running with competent teammates. You may not be able to play a Sent as good you can play a Scound, does that mean Sent needs a buff or Scound needs a nerf?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZzvhacEdZY&feature=plcp&context=C3bae2a3UDOEgsToPDskI4tX_uVcLNn8ORRjhqLg05

 

 

Sent doing 480k damage with 90k healing. Enjoy, and before anybody jumps to conclusions, this is post 1.1 and against all 50s.

 

Turned it off once its dam obvious he has a pocket healer.

 

480k on Voidstar with a pocket healer is average at best.

[Pappus]

If at all those melee unfriendly things put more pressure ON YOU. It is part of your job description to avoid it and still maintain effective dps.

 

Annihilation based to start going through EV with you:

 

Annihilation droid:

You can obfuscate the rocket phases making it uneeded to break LoS at all throughout the encounter. The swipes aren't even to be dodged just get your *** behind the guy and everything is fine.

 

If the big rocket targets you, you can either undieing rage it or force camo it not even needing healer attention.

 

Storm protocol: Just running around a bit into the enemy a bit left is not even worth considering melee unfriendly given how tiny those spots are.

 

Gharj:

Pound => Force Cloak, next pound into Cloak of pain then comes the frenzy. Especially if you have defensive rolls skilled you can easily take the hit it won't put pressure on good healers and don't think ranged go without dmg they will go into the lava occasionally while you won't.

 

Pylon & Infernal council:

No difference picking a melee over a ranged class for such simple encounters.

 

Soa:

Unfortunately he is unchargeable due to a bug. That makes it a bit harder to switch targets for you or more likely going back to soa could cost you a predation/camo if you really want to switch fast.

 

During the phases where you have to go down you won't need any heals, because you can charge from platform to platform taking 0 dmg except the 200ish dot that ticks on everyone.

 

Palace:

First boss due to problems with the hitbox charge is not very good, however running behind him is no challenge at all especially given you could just use predation/camo if you really made a mistake. Also through cycling of your defensives you will need less attention then any other class.

 

Sorg and jona was the second if I remember correctly? You can charge after that guy that like to sit up there and keep interrupting and damaging. Your interrupt is very handy here and not all ranged classes even have interrupts to begin with or high CD's.

 

The next boss would be that fat something, when he starts striking like a mad men you can obfuscate it. With the AoE you can help or not depending on your mood and if you ever happen to be close to a rock smash you can just camo out of it easily.

 

Fabricator:

You can clear half the minefield if you want, but so can ranged peeps so I think I would give ranged the edge here, but it isn't melee unfriendly so to speak.

 

Unyielding -> You are the black hole? Camo in the right moment, no dmg. Not sure if he can be obfuscated but he was no big problem at all or melee unfriendly. Those little spikes not sure if they only hit melees but dmg was neglectible.

 

TL;DR use the tools given to you

[Spiderbubble]

I am legitimately going to hit 50 on my Marauder and quit playing it until it gets buffed. I'm getting quite fed up with this class. It's frustrating, because on paper, it should be MY class. THE class I should be playing. I should LOVE this class...

 

But alas, I can't bring myself to even like it as it is.

 

Healers outheal us (and shut up about that pathetic -20% healing debuff. It's awful and doesn't seem to do jack sh-t)

Ranged DPS out-DPSes and out-CCs us

Tanks tank too much of our HP

Assassins stealth away if we even get near killing them

 

 

This is a typical Marauder game: Get pulled to enemies, CC-locked into place. Die.

 

Or:

 

Jump to enemy. 8 enemies come out of stealth. Die.

 

Or:

 

Jump a low health healer. They heal back to full health. Die.

 

Or:

 

Join a WZ. Die.

 

 

Die.

Die.

Die.

Die.

Die.

Die!

 

http://files.g4tv.com/ImageDb3/183758_S/The-Silver-Surfer-Movie-Dead-Or-Alive.jpg

[BKatt]

On the PvE point of view. Atleast in EV, im having no problems being effective, even more so on first boss than any other class out there(on nightmare). My fellow Marauder and i, take turns to obfuscate the boss at his rocket phases, and takes nearly no dmg while standing and dpsing the boss, that resulting in a constant dps from our part, even more so than any other dps class ever could.

 

I agree with you, the game at times can be very rough on melee, tho overall I've enjoyed my Marauder beyond what i can express.

Keeping in mind, that for every crazy melee unfriendly boss out there, downing the boss(es) inspite of that, makes the kill so much the sweeter