Zoroth Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Seriously, Bioware. Are you even watching your own metrics, lately? I mean, do you even realize how ridiculously imbalanced (read: OP) the pre-mades are compared to solo queued? What's so bad about pre-mades? Well, let's compare solo and group queue: Pre-mades - more often done by seasoned PvP'ers who know how to play and often use voice chat like Ventrilo or Teamspeak to coordinate their attacks. Even if you're a bad player, you can just follow the leader and provide help as cannon fodder, because 3-4 organized people is usually enough to lead the group on. Solo groups - more often done by intermediate to newbie players who have no idea how to team up properly, because most people don't have that kind of meta-game experience. Whereas the pre-mades are usually done by a specific player type, solo queues are much more general (I am sure your metrics can easily show this, if you even have these types of metrics to begin with). Even if you're a great player, you playing like crap because you're a minority against an enemy majority. Conclusion: There is simply no way most solo groups can ever match the level of most groups that includes a pre-made. Therefore, the current policy MUST change. Solution: Pre-mades is prolly one of the worst ideas ever for pre-ranked PvP. A nice thought for RANKED PVP though. So until you add ranked PvP to the game and couple people up against eachother based on their actual player skill level, you DO NOT allow pre-mades in the game. It totally destroys people's PvP experience when they realize their up against pre-mades. And it also destroys the match itself, because the minute we realize it, people start farming medals instead of trying to win the match - because they know that they won't. Example: Just a speck of dust in the big picture, but I just played a bunch of matches now for the last 1-2 hours and I won 2 of them. I even have my personal experience damaged because I know the enemy team is telling everyone on vent that I am a healer and therefore I need to be ganked. So imagine that, my record in getting ganked by 3+ players in a match is maybe around 7-8 deaths, if not more. Now how the heck can they do this, if they're not immediately identifying me and singling me out through voice chat? It's like this, I die and then I respawn. I jump out and meet the enemy, often tactically smart with regards to attacking just 1 along a corner or similar. STILL I get ganked in seconds. Thankfully though, the PvP in this game is so gear-focused that I now have less issues because my gear is lv51 or higher. Another stupid feature that hurts the players who just happen to have the wrong gear level, but can still be excellent players. Maybe you should reduce the returns on gear improvements too? Just a thought, cause getting 2-3 shotted in a match when having just basic 50 gear is just too laughable. I'm sorry Bioware, but this pre-made PvP nonsense is complete BS, and I'm sure that many agree. Even pre-mades themselves who find themselves up against ZERO competition and just stand there without scoring the last goal because they just group up and farm medals like the rest. You guys need to seriously rethink your pre-made policies. E.g. set pre-made gear levels to a certain ranked default or whatever. That is all. Edited January 25, 2012 by Zoroth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoroth Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Feel free to discuss and comment, guys. Would really love this to be actually seen by Bioware and hopefully handled. So many patches and still no change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Cruiser Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 PvP isn't so active that you couldn't solo Q your way into a premade either just by clicking the button at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeborne Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 It's not my fault I have 3 friends that want to PvP with me, and you have none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otohime Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 as a premade player i say 1 thing , learn to play the wz as pug and if all pugs know how to play an warzone that becomes a 8 man premade , don't know how is on other servers but many of 50 players do know how to play wz and many times they just talks with left right mid , and rest know what to do , only thing a premade can add to that is that they can call faster when the get ppl in one of the places , and that's it allderan tip if u get zerged on mid split up and let 1 player on left 1 on right and rest stay under and run from 1 side to another if 1 zone gets full zerged dispatch 2 ppl to get mid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arteous Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Seriously if you can't make friends in an MMO to go pvp with and do well. maybe you should be waiting for a single player game instead? i mean seriously what's going to be your next complaint? that you should be able to solo raid/4man content because raids/4mans are overpowered and since you refuse to be social in an Massivley MULTIPLAYER online game and want to solo everything (including pvp). nothing left to see move along, move along. Edited January 25, 2012 by arteous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoroth Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) PvP isn't so active that you couldn't solo Q your way into a premade either just by clicking the button at the same time. Yes, but what about the rest of the players who aren't as lucky? I might be lucky, but it doesn't fix the problem itself. Also, a pre-made consisting of 4 players, means that there's only 4 spots available in an 8-man game. It drastically decreases the chance of joining one. It's not my fault I have 3 friends that want to PvP with me, and you have none. It's not your fault that the meat industry is just dumping 20%+ of the meat in the garbage dump either, to keep prices balanced. Why should you turn a Vegan? You shouldn't, but it's still a problem and it needs to be fixed. You can have your pre-made, but against other pre-made groups or in ranked PvP to make things fair and much less exploitable etc. This isn't about you and your friends, this is about the people who would exploit the feature and deteriorate the PvP for others. Edited January 25, 2012 by Zoroth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otohime Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 premade get less pops then solo ques Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaiz Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I'm a healer as well. I'm also a ball carrier in Huttball. It usually takes 10+ rounds or so before the puggies figure out they need to squish me as soon as they see me, and if they don't catch me with 3 or more at a time, its not happening, and if I can hold myself up through initial barrage, I'll have someone to pass to and get the ball moving forward again. 1) Make friends. 2) Learn to Pvp, share knowledge with friend 3) Queue as a team, steamroll. Or, you know, whine about premades on a forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madcatyoji Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Yes, but what about the rest of the players who aren't as lucky? I might be lucky, but it doesn't fix the problem itself. Also, a pre-made consisting of 4 players, means that there's only 4 spots available in an 8-man game. It drastically decreases the chance of joining one. It's not your fault that the meat industry is just dumping 20%+ of the meat in the garbage dump either, to keep prices balanced. Why should you turn a Vegan? You shouldn't, but it's still a problem and it needs to be fixed. You can have your pre-made, but against other pre-made groups or in ranked PvP to make things fair and much less exploitable etc. This isn't about you and your friends, this is about the people who would exploit the feature and deteriorate the PvP for others. You missed his point/ pre mades won't disappear they'll get on vent count to 3 and all Q solo. this will usually put them on the same team at the same time. Not always but usually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoroth Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Seriously if you can't make friends in an MMO to go pvp with and do well. maybe you should be waiting for a single player game instead? I'm sorry, but you're such a complete egotist. But why wouldn't you, you're probably getting 10+ medals because you're able to hide behind a team, rather than getting them for your actual, individual skill level. I don't know, but your reply completely avoids the issue by making it about me and whether I got friends or not. What if I did have friends and I was part of the pre-mades? The problem would still exist for everyone else who didn't. So essentially, you're telling us that, if we don't have friends to play with in PvP, then too bad we shouldn't play PvP at all. Well, again I find that to be an incredibly egotistical notion. No offence. It's got nothing to do with me, it's an in-game feature that's utterly broken. Edited January 25, 2012 by Zoroth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoroth Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) You missed his point/ pre mades won't disappear they'll get on vent count to 3 and all Q solo. this will usually put them on the same team at the same time. Not always but usually. You make a good point, I guess the only solution is to introduce ranked PvP, so that truly skilled players are singled out from the poor ones, regardless of pre-mades. But waiting till march to get ranked PvP, and if that's even a meta-pvp system or a separate pvp thing alltogether (like arenas)... meh, we'll see. My point is that I don't want to rely on pre-mades to be able to win in warzones, that kinda defeats the whole purpose of going solo to begin with. Of course I can just make friends and do pre-mades, but that's not solving the problem it's avoiding it by doing like the rest. It doesn't fix the mechanics. Edited January 25, 2012 by Zoroth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lasica Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 You missed his point/ pre mades won't disappear they'll get on vent count to 3 and all Q solo. this will usually put them on the same team at the same time. Not always but usually. We tried this once and got 5/8 into the one game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skotish Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 It should have a single Que for solo and a party Que for ranked where all the elites so called players can kill other so called elites but great post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolsaber Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Its a system pre-mades will fight to keep. Because of the following. - They get to run over pugs - They have a massive advantage (Vent coordination) - Queue times are short (because of all the solo queuers) - Generally they do not necessarily fight other Pre-mades. - When pugs see pre-mades they quit and so the games tend to end quickly. Pre-mades do not want pre-made queues because of the following. Queue times would be crazy long (with no cross server) They would have to fight other pre-mades (uh oh) No more pug stomping (uh oh) Longer games and slower gear progression (ie more challenge) PVPrs will take the path of least resistance and this current system is just that, I fully understand why they would fight to the death to keep the status quo. The problem is the majority of people PUG and solo queue and so it should be adjusted for fair play in their direction and cross server pre-made queues should be made for those who want to play with their friends. It seems pretty obvious to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otohime Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 to be honest i would like 8 premade vs 8 premade , atleast u know who to blame if u lose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaiz Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 BlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlah BlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlahBlah forum whiners will take the path of least resistance Fixed that for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolsaber Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Hi I troll people I don't agree with because I'm bad at pvp Yes you are.. Yes you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kakokun Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 So you don't want to give me the opportunity to grab a few friends and run some warzones? If they don't allow me to have that then I'll just stop PvPing all together. It's the only part that's actually enjoyable with PvP right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seriasx Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 So you don't want to give me the opportunity to grab a few friends and run some warzones? If they don't allow me to have that then I'll just stop PvPing all together. It's the only part that's actually enjoyable with PvP right now. Of course you can, you should just be matched up against others who do the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kakokun Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Of course you can, you should just be matched up against others who do the same thing. But that'll slow down queue times even more. Sometimes I just wanna do a few matches for fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoroth Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Thanks all, for opinions and input. keep em coming, I want Bioware to see this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoroth Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) So you don't want to give me the opportunity to grab a few friends and run some warzones? If they don't allow me to have that then I'll just stop PvPing all together. It's the only part that's actually enjoyable with PvP right now. And why is it the only thing that is enjoyable?... Edited January 25, 2012 by Zoroth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydrott Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Troll moar!! Edited January 25, 2012 by Hydrott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlaid Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) I really don't care how they do it, but I want a way to solo queue and get nothing but people solo queueing. I don't want to see premades with multi hour long queues, I don't want premades to go away. But I think it's ridiculous how easy it is to farm as a premade. They should at least have to fight other premades and not random pugs with 13k health. I can't imagine any scenario in which people who premade would WANT to fight pugs....unless they are just that bad and that's the only way they can win. Otherwise it should be premade vs premade and pugs vs pugs. A proposed solution I have put up before Premade Queue: Cross-server queue, fights premades from a bunch of servers to speed up queues Solo Queue: Fight only solo queuers from your own server, only tries to pull in solo queues from other servers if the queue lasts longer than x minutes. Edited January 25, 2012 by Vlaid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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