Phaymous Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Hey all, I had not personally determined what the issue is. Below is the quote from the post below me. Those of you who are Carnage specced may have noticed this, especially if you have done many operations. I first noticed it on the world boss on Belsavis, and then confirmed it later against Karagga in Karagga's Palace and on Graj in the Eternity Vault. Ataru Form is not affected by increased hitbox size. A larger enemy typically has a larger 'hitbox' at which range is calculated; for these large enemies, being in melee range is not calculated from their center but from their edges. All melee attacks work this way on these enemies (Want to see? Go fight a Wild Rancor in the Belsavis Bonus Area. Other enemies are also large enough and easy to get to but this is the one I most quickly remember). Even Ranged attacks have a larger range due to a boss's increased hitbox. Essentially, it is expected that every form of attack is affected by the hitbox size. The proc from Ataru Form, however, is not. Against a larger enemy, being in range for your melee attacks does not mean you are in range for Ataru Form. This is extremely easy to test. Stand at the outer edge of a giant enemy and use Massacre. You'll attack him as normal, deal damage, spend rage, etc. But you won't get your Ataru Form proc, even though it is supposed to be guaranteed. In fact, if you continue hitting the mob at this range, you'll find that you never get an Ataru Form proc. Ever. "Big Deal," some of you may say. "Just stand closer." While, at the moment, that is obviously the only recourse against the bug (and since Ataru Form says nothing in the tooltip about it functioning different from every other single attack in the game, I assume it is indeed a bug and not a feature), it isn't sufficient and doesn't mean the bug should not be taken seriously. Against a boss like Karagga, being in range for Ataru Form can mean being required to stand in deadly, deadly fire. And when soloing, large enemies cannot even be within range. As soon as you move closer to them, they move back a step to be at the edge of their hitbox as well. This is easily demonstrated by the Wild Rancor mobs on the Belsavis Bonus Area. It is impossible to hit these enemies with Ataru Form. And being unable to get Ataru procs gimps the Carnage spec immeasurably, a spec that is already (by some metrics) inferior damage-wise to Rage and especially Annihilation. This is an easily reproducible bug that needs to be better known. Watch out if you plan on going Carnage, and Bioware: you need to get on this. Thanks ProjectAwesome, now let's just hope they go do something about it >.>! Edited January 24, 2012 by Phaymous Someone else posted same time, with cause of bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProjectAwesome Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 It is an issue with the hitbox. Ataru Form is not affected by a larger hitbox on mobs like Karagga. Move in right under the center of the boss and you'll find your Ataru Form procs going off again. Better description here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=229775 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaymous Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Thanks, edited OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasymodeX Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Good find. I would add an additional note ... may be difficult for players to test, but maybe someone who's played with Carnage for a long time may have more input: If Ataru strike has a separate distance check from the attack that it rides (per the bug above), does it also have a separate LOS check, and does this event cause Ataru strikes to fail to execute in PvP, specifically on moving targets? Sounds like the base Ataru bug above is centered on the concept of its animation. If that is the case, then this effect may be the reason that Carnage seems to often underperform in PvP at random times. Edited January 24, 2012 by EasymodeX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrolleunHunter Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 So carnage sucks even harder then previously known. I knew I hated this specialization for something other than it's shyt damage and survivability. So annihilation is broke with bleeds not incurring bleed out, and now hit box and los might effect ataru's damage check. Le-GD-sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProjectAwesome Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Good find. I would add an additional note ... may be difficult for players to test, but maybe someone who's played with Carnage for a long time may have more input: If Ataru strike has a separate distance check from the attack that it rides (per the bug above), does it also have a separate LOS check, and does this event cause Ataru strikes to fail to execute in PvP, specifically on moving targets? Sounds like the base Ataru bug above is centered on the concept of its animation. If that is the case, then this effect may be the reason that Carnage seems to often underperform in PvP at random times. It is hard to say. Certainly since Ataru Procs are always at the end of the attack animation (Basically at the end of the GCD) I could see a scenario where you start an ability (Let's say massacre) and halfway through the target walks behind a corner. Assuming Massacre finishes (Not sure if it does), the Ataru Proc may very well not go off, since it may check the LoS at the end of the attack. But that's all speculation; I haven't tested that and it may very well not be related to the bug at hand in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naethion Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Really? Craap there is always something.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yillin Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Well, you all know what to do. Sentinels got the bugged talent brought to light. We can get this brought out as well. When you log in, create a bug ticket for it. Also, if theres some other outlet to submit a bug report, do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zilrota Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Hi all, We are going to go ahead and close this thread and ask that you continue your discussion in the original thread. This is very helpful as it keeps the discussion and feedback together. You can find the original thread here. While we greatly appreciate reporting issues to us, do not forget to report these issues in game as well. We strongly encourage you to submit bugs in-game through the Customer Service Portal (click the ? in the top navigation bar) or by entering "/bug" into your chat panel. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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