Kunovega Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I know tracer is the build up for heat singaturs, armor reduction, blah blah blah But what are we building up to? Rail shot? Heat seeker? Unload? The problem I am seeing is that even a full built up Rail Shot or Heat seeker is simply not out damaging my tracer missles, which makes me wonder why I should even be using them? Yes Unload can out damage tracer, if it procs the 30% damage boost, but why are heat seeker and rail shot not landing for more than my tracers? Im in a mix of end game gear (columi and rakata) and fighting end game content and Im watching my tracer missles land anywhere from 3k to 5k right on up to the occassional 9k with a good crit Yet heat seeker and rail shot which Im supposed to be using tracers to improve will rarely hit for more than 3k, its almost not worth the time to even work them into a rotation and makes me wonder if I should not be partially spec'd into a hybrid tree so I could toss in an incendiary missle for damage ticks while just launching more tracers Anyone else experiencing this where the "big hits" from rail shot and heat seeker are simply being out shined by our tracers? And before anyone makes a dumb comment: im not asking for tracer to be nerfed, im feeling like heat seeker and rail shot need to be buffed in some way, they simply arent the stars they should be, even with 5 tracer buffs the way they are intended to be used arsenal mercs are already a one trick pony, we are pure dps, our magic formula is supposed to be tracer tracer tracer: heat seeker, rail shot, but there are days i feel like i might as well never use anything but tracer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheJollyRogers Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 What? How on earth is your Heatseeker only hitting for 3k while your Tracer for 9k? I have 4/5 Rakata and I've cleared all of HM-EV and 3/5 HM-Karagga's, and my tracer hits for around 2.5k and criticals for about 4.1k, while Heatseeker hits for around 3.5k and criticals for about 7-8k. Post a play of a HM fight. I want to see these 9k tracer missiles (and don't post a fight of Heavy Fabricator). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Duck Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 never gotten a 9k hit on anything ever.done most hard modes ... rare that I see anything over 5k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunovega Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 What? How on earth is your Heatseeker only hitting for 3k while your Tracer for 9k? I have 4/5 Rakata and I've cleared all of HM-EV and 3/5 HM-Karagga's, and my tracer hits for around 2.5k and criticals for about 4.1k, while Heatseeker hits for around 3.5k and criticals for about 7-8k. Post a play of a HM fight. I want to see these 9k tracer missiles (and don't post a fight of Heavy Fabricator). 9k is only reached with multiple mercs debuffing armor, and its still pretty rare, but it does come up in nice big bold yellow still, my normal tracers average in the 3 to 5k range, its just my heat seekers and rail shots are not out damaging this anyway, so whats the point? i mean,i can mouse over the bar and heat seeker even with 5 build ups is not even listed as higher damage than tracer, thats why im asking, it doesnt make sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunovega Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 never gotten a 9k hit on anything ever. done most hard modes ... rare that I see anything over 5k. last time i did ev, 16 man normal, 15 people died on a boss, he was enraged and i was last alive, he had just under 10k hp left, i killed him with a single 9k crit and there was much rejoicing they are rare, but they do happen. it should be noted that we had something like 6 mercs on that raid and all had debuffed him with tracers before damage like that was possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheJollyRogers Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) That mathematically doesn't make sense. I'm looking at my tooltips right now. Currently, Tracer Missile says 1712-1763 while Heatseeker says 1735-1822. Take into account that Heatseeker's damage is increased by 25% with Heat Signatures (1778.5(1.25)) = 2223.125. Also take into account the Arsenal talent that increases the critical bonus of Heatseeker and Unload by 30%. I have never seen my Heatseeker hit lower than my Tracer Missile unless I used it without any heat signatures on my target. Please post a video OP. EDIT: Also, the Tracer Missile's armor penetration debuff does not stack. It only shows up to remind each Merc what Heat Signature they are stacked on. The armor penetration reduction for the boss is a straight 20% and nothing more as long as you have at least one Arsenal Merc or one sundering Juggernaut. Edited January 24, 2012 by TheJollyRogers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungy Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) I've had some abnormally high heatseeker crits when multiple arsenal bhs have stacks of heat signatures up. I know the armor debuff doesnt stack but I think for some reason the +5% damage boost on heatseeker is being effected by allied heat signatures as well. Edited January 24, 2012 by Hungy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunovega Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 That mathematically doesn't make sense. I'm looking at my tooltips right now. Currently, Tracer Missile says 1712-1763 while Heatseeker says 1735-1822. Take into account that Heatseeker's damage is increased by 25% with Heat Signatures (1778.5(1.25)) = 2223.125. Also take into account the Arsenal talent that increases the critical bonus of Heatseeker and Unload by 30%. I have never seen my Heatseeker hit lower than my Tracer Missile unless I used it without any heat signatures on my target. Please post a video OP. EDIT: Also, the Tracer Missile's armor penetration debuff does not stack. It only shows up to remind each Merc what Heat Signature they are stacked on. The armor penetration reduction for the boss is a straight 20% and nothing more as long as you have at least one Arsenal Merc or one sundering Juggernaut. i know what the tooltips say, and it never plays out that way for me, which is why i asked i dont know whats supposed to stack with what, i only know it does, if thats a bug, its not my problem but i routinely get much higher damage with multiple mercs than if i am the only one. in fact the last few raids we've done our DPS has been 90% or more from mercs for exactly this reason. we have 1 agent and an occasional sorc, never bother to bring melee dps anymore, our raids are 1 tank, a few healers and than as many mercs as possible i dont have anything to record with or anywhere to host it if i did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheJollyRogers Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I've had some abnormally high heatseeker crits when multiple arsenal bhs have stacks of tracers up. I know the armor debuff doesnt stack but I think for some reason the +5% damage boost on heatseeker is being stacked for allied tracers as well. I've done hard modes with my guild where I've either had no other Mercs (except for a Bodyguard) or two other Mercs. I would certainly notice if my Heatseeker was somehow double-tipping and taking 50% extra damage. The OP says they have never seen a Heatseeker hit for above 3k. I am not trying to call the OP a liar. I want to see a video of a fight and see the proof. I've never seen Heatseeker hit lower than Tracer as long as I have 5/5 heat signatures up. There are times where Heatseeker has gotten up to 10k criticals, but that's usually when I pop my Attack Adrenal + PvE Power Trinket for a 900 power boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aett Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I don't have numbers to back it up, but I've also been noticing that both Heatseeker Missles and Rail Shot do less damage than Tracer. Not sure why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheJollyRogers Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 i dont have anything to record with or anywhere to host it if i did http://www.livestream.com/ I just talked to the three other Mercs in my guild. None of them are having cases where Tracer Missile hits remotely as hard as a 5/5 Heatseeker. Until I see a video, I am going to have to assume you are bugged and should put a ticket in. Also, I definitely do not notice a 90% increase in damage with other Mercenaries in the raid. We time all of our hard mode boss fights (in order to improve) and the times where we bring either just me or several other Mercenaries is not large enough of a gap to conclude that I or them are doing almost double damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunovega Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 I've done hard modes with my guild where I've either had no other Mercs (except for a Bodyguard) or two other Mercs. I would certainly notice if my Heatseeker was somehow double-tipping and taking 50% extra damage. The OP says they have never seen a Heatseeker hit for above 3k. I am not trying to call the OP a liar. I want to see a video of a fight and see the proof. I've never seen Heatseeker hit lower than Tracer as long as I have 5/5 heat signatures up. There are times where Heatseeker has gotten up to 10k criticals, but that's usually when I pop my Attack Adrenal + PvE Power Trinket for a 900 power boost. thats just it, if you are saying its just from trinkets and adrenals than this would be numbers i see when soloing. i have no trouble killing certain lvl 50 champions with over 100k hp when i farm solo i sit and watch my numbers for hours when i solo and never reach the damage i do during raids with other mercs around ive never crit for more than 5k ish range while soloing even with trinket and adrenal, i only do it in raids with other mercs i just find it weird that tracer 3 in a row will land for 3 to 5k (and occasioally more) and than the 2 hits im supposed to build up for that "should be better" with heat seeker and rail shot do not do more damage than the tracers im throwing rail shot especially seems to have a rediculous failure rate for me and rarely lands for more than 2k even with a 5 tracer build up (yes, 5, not the 3x2 required for heat seeker) what am i building up to? 2 more hits that land for around tracers damage? im not sure why people are focusing on the 9k or the bigger crits i mentioned, that wasnt really the focus here, i want to know why heat seeker and rail shot dont land for more than what tracer is already doing because if thats how they are, is there a point in using them when i could get more versatilty from a hybrid spec that simply includes tracer in it somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheJollyRogers Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) thats just it, if you are saying its just from trinkets and adrenals than this would be numbers i see when soloing. i have no trouble killing certain lvl 50 champions with over 100k hp when i farm solo i sit and watch my numbers for hours when i solo and never reach the damage i do during raids with other mercs around ive never crit for more than 5k ish range while soloing even with trinket and adrenal, i only do it in raids with other mercs i just find it weird that tracer 3 in a row will land for 3 to 5k (and occasioally more) and than the 2 hits im supposed to build up for that "should be better" with heat seeker and rail shot do not do more damage than the tracers im throwing rail shot especially seems to have a rediculous failure rate for me and rarely lands for more than 2k even with a 5 tracer build up (yes, 5, not the 3x2 required for heat seeker) what am i building up to? 2 more hits that land for around tracers damage? im not sure why people are focusing on the 9k or the bigger crits i mentioned, that wasnt really the focus here, i want to know why heat seeker and rail shot dont land for more than what tracer is already doing because if thats how they are, is there a point in using them when i could get more versatilty from a hybrid spec that simply includes tracer in it somewhere? You hit harder in raids because you're fully buffed up. Not only do you generally have the four standardized class buffs, but other classes are debuffing/buffing during the boss. Classes like Marauders bring buffs like Bloodthirst that increase the entire raid's damage by 15%. Rail Shot generally hits about 500-600 damage more than my Tracer Missile for me. Considering that the ability is only 8 heat, I always use it when I have Tracer Lock at 5/5. I am definitely not seeing what you are seeing. What's your spec like and what's your Aim/Power/Crit and Surge at? Edited January 24, 2012 by TheJollyRogers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungy Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I've done hard modes with my guild where I've either had no other Mercs (except for a Bodyguard) or two other Mercs. I would certainly notice if my Heatseeker was somehow double-tipping and taking 50% extra damage. The OP says they have never seen a Heatseeker hit for above 3k. I am not trying to call the OP a liar. I want to see a video of a fight and see the proof. I've never seen Heatseeker hit lower than Tracer as long as I have 5/5 heat signatures up. There are times where Heatseeker has gotten up to 10k criticals, but that's usually when I pop my Attack Adrenal + PvE Power Trinket for a 900 power boost. Maybe I was just getting some lucky big crits or had some other buff I was not aware of when I was getting those much larger heatseeker crits when grouped with another arsenal merc. This also occurred awhile ago, it could have just been a bug that they have since patched. I'm certainly not as well geared as you or even doing ops yet, but I agree that my rail shots (with 5/5 tracer lock) and heatseeker (5/5 heat sigs) do more than my tracers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yazule Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 this thread makes my epeen shrink, i have never seen numbers anywhere near that (but not doing nightmare mode yet so we will see i guess) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts