grathom Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) Build 1-This build I have compiled after reading the forums for a rage juggernaut, getting the most out of smash. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101crZhZGMRrdrMbGo.1 Build 2-Someone who had end game pvp experience with the juggernaut recommend this build, still using smash as the main offense. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101ZhMrZG0RrdrRbGR.1 My question is, which build do you like better for pvp? I don't like how the second build is lacking battlecry. It also has 2 points in sundering throw which some have told me isn't worth it because of poor dps and the lack of any points in single saber mastery. That being said unyielding does look very nice, and the first build doesn't have it. Edited December 15, 2011 by grathom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quor Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) Build 1-This build I have compiled after reading the forums for a rage juggernaut, getting the most out of smash. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101crZhZGMRrdrMbGo.1 Build 2-Someone who had end game pvp experience with the juggernaut recommend this build, still using smash as the main offense. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101ZhMrZG0RrdrRbGR.1 My question is, which build do you like better for pvp? I don't like how the second build is lacking battlecry. It also has 2 points in sundering throw which some have told me isn't worth it because of poor dps and the lack of any points in single saber mastery. That being said unyielding does look very nice, and the first build doesn't have it. My personal opinion is that a Smash-focused build is something of a one trick pony. Yeah, it's a LOT of potential damage you can put out, but it requires such a build up and often comes at the cost of using not being able to use Guard that it's quite conditional in it's usage. Having said that, I'm more a fan of the second of these two. Unyielding is always nice, because CC is everywhere in pvp, and you're a prime CC target since you'll be such a nuisance to have around. That will also help ensure you have the rage necessary to use your moves, which mitigates the lack of a free snare and Scream. The biggest knock against this kind of build is.....you can't be guarding someone to make the most out of it. The greatest asset a Jug brings to pvp is the Guard skill, and being in Soresu form wastes a lot of the talents in this tree. As long as you don't need to guard someone I could see this build working quite well for what it does. You just have to plan your killing blows around the burst damage the beefed up Smash will provide. Also, pick up Gravity, because it *should* reduce the cost on Force Crush (after all, FC is a snare is it not?). Edited December 15, 2011 by Quor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grathom Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 My personal opinion is that a Smash-focused build is something of a one trick pony. Yeah, it's a LOT of potential damage you can put out, but it requires such a build up and often comes at the cost of using not being able to use Guard that it's quite conditional in it's usage. Having said that, I'm more a fan of the second of these two. Unyielding is always nice, because CC is everywhere in pvp, and you're a prime CC target since you'll be such a nuisance to have around. That will also help ensure you have the rage necessary to use your moves, which mitigates the lack of a free snare and Scream. The biggest knock against this kind of build is.....you can't be guarding someone to make the most out of it. The greatest asset a Jug brings to pvp is the Guard skill, and being in Soresu form wastes a lot of the talents in this tree. As long as you don't need to guard someone I could see this build working quite well for what it does. You just have to plan your killing blows around the burst damage the beefed up Smash will provide. Also, pick up Gravity, because it *should* reduce the cost on Force Crush (after all, FC is a snare is it not?). I understand to really get the full usage out of a Juggernaut would require focusing less on damage talent points, and more on the utility talents. However I am mostly interested in getting the biggest bang out of my saber, even at the cost of being a one trick pony. That being said, if I was to still go with the second build, is it worth the 2 points in sundering throw? I have had a mixed bag of reception with sundering throw. Thank you for your feeback! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quor Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) I understand to really get the full usage out of a Juggernaut would require focusing less on damage talent points, and more on the utility talents. However I am mostly interested in getting the biggest bang out of my saber, even at the cost of being a one trick pony. That being said, if I was to still go with the second build, is it worth the 2 points in sundering throw? I have had a mixed bag of reception with sundering throw. Thank you for your feeback! It's five seconds off of your throw CD, which makes it 25 instead of 30. That isn't terrible, and is comparable to the CD reduction you get on Choke from the Ravager talent at the bottom. Plus it applies two stacks of sunder, which is always nice since you can get four stacks on in 2 GCD's between SA and Throw. Most importantly though, it's better than the alternatives (with the exception of Stagger, which is about on par in pvp, so really more a matter of personal preference). What I'd suggest changing is dropping the Enrage talent, Relentless, and grabbing Enraged Sunder instead. On the one hand, Enrage will instantly give you two free rage, but consider this; SA with Enraged Sunder gives you three rage a hit on a 4.5s CD. That's two extra rage every nine seconds. Relentless in Enrage gives you an extra two rage every sixty seconds. In the time it takes you use one Enrage and assuming you use it every time it's available, Enraged Sunder gives you 13 extra rage (that's in addition to the normal two rage it provides). Put quite simply, if there is any talent in the Juggernaut tree that is a "must have" I think Enraged Sunder is it. It benefits any spec, all the time. Edited December 15, 2011 by Quor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herrunterberg Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Dodnt know for sure, but wouldn't a hybrid of immortal/vengeance build be even better für smash usage? Ruin, heavy handed, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quor Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Dodnt know for sure, but wouldn't a hybrid of immortal/vengeance build be even better für smash usage? Ruin, heavy handed, etc. That'll get you 45% increased damage on Smash. But with procs, deep Rage will get you 130% increase damage on Smash thanks to Shockwave + Decimate. Yeah, ruin is nice in Vengy, but if you want big Smash numbers you need to spec deep rage for Shockwave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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