A few things Dirty Fighters should know

[Leilei]

1. Open wound sucks. It will reduce your dps. Skip that talent.

 

2. Do you honestly think that your vital shot is going to do more damage than a scrapper? It wont unless you use hemo blast or the enemy is at less than 30% hp.

 

3. Pistol whip is something you will be using every time its up.

 

4. Back blast is a strong low energy cost ability. Not using it is gimping yourself as much as a scrapper who wont use vital shot.

 

5. Use shoot first. Seriously.

 

If you played a scrapper before then here are a few conversions for the abilities they have :

 

Flurry of bolts - Flurry of bolts

Vital Shot - Vital Shot

Back Blast - Back Blast

Shoot First - Shoot First

Pistol Whip - Pistol Whip

Flechette Round - Hemmorhaging Blast

Sucker Punch - Wounding Shots

Flying Fists Proc - Shrap Bomb (only if you wont hit CC'd enemies. If your going to, just tap f and toss a sabo charge and keep going)

 

 

See? You have mostly the same moves. Just switch them around a bit and youre fine.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#701bcZGZhRrorMhdGR.1

 

This is the spec and it pretty much plays like a scrapper. Open with shoot first when possible, trash gets a helping of vital shot -> back blast-> pistol whip and jsut DoT as much as you safely can. I rarely ever use shrap bomb but for bosses, its on all the time.

 

Main rules are the following for bosses :

 

If you can open with shoot first, Do so.

Bosses with aoe knockback and slow, save your surrender for those moments. If you take aggro within the first 30 seconds, you can safely burn your vanish -> shoot first.

 

Keep vital shot on boss at all times.

 

Keep shrap bomb at all times BUT these 2 must be staggered so that you dont get energy problems.

Hemo blast used every time it can be used

 

Dont wound shot till you have 2 upper hands

 

When you have 2 upper hands and pugnacity, use wounding shots right before you pistol whip to keep at 2 upper hands.

 

Back blast used every time you can.

 

You need high crit for this to work though. My char has umm...43.56% chance to crit with only crafted gear. o.o

 

DPS BREAKDOWN__________________________________________

 

 

DPS Of abilities on an enemy with no Hemo Blast

Back Blast - 18.3%

Blaster Whip - 17.8%

Hemo Blast - 4.5%

Wounding Shots (no bleeds) - 17.1%**

Wounded (2 bleeds) - 16.5% *

Vital Shot - 15.8%

Shrap Bomb - 9.7%

 

With Hemo Blast debuff

Back Blast - 16.3%

Blaster Whip - 15.8%

Hemo Blast - 0.4%

Wounding Shots (no bleeds) - 15.2% **

Wounded (2 Bleeds) - 19.1% *

Vital Shot - 18.3%

Shrap Bomb - 11.1%

 

** Subject to higher reduction due to armor and subject to being dodged.

* Subject to being dodged if Wounding shots miss

 

So these are the breakdowns. The bonus damage from wounding shots on bleeding enemies was put in a seperate area just to show how significant it is when factored in to the whole dps.

 

What is scary is that umm... The difference between hemo blast debuff and without hemo blast debuff is 10%. Hemo blast debuff will make you do 10% more damage. Not using shrap bomb will result in an 18% dps loss if the fight lasts a full 21 seconds of shrap bomb. The whole thing changes when you factor in trash mobs because of Shoot first so this is only for bosses/enemies that last at a lil over 25 seconds.

 

I didnt factor in flurry of bolts there so those numbers may seem a bit high. On perfect situation where it ALWAYS hits, it will do a little more dps than shrap bomb on a hemo blasted enemy (if factored in the rotation of doing 1 flurry of bolts every 9 seconds)

Edited January 25, 2012 by Leilei

[Minybird]

1. Open wound sucks. It will reduce your dps. Skip that talent.

 

I am a bit confused.

 

Does the phrase "Increases the duration of vital shot by 3 seconds" mean:

 

a) take vital shot total damage, divide by 5 (3 sec intervals, 15s up time), and apply 6 ticks of the same damage over 18 seconds or

 

b) take vital shot total damage, divide by 6 (3 sec interval, 18s up time)

 

Option b would definitely reduce your dps, but option a would keep your dps the same from vital shot, but give you better energy conservation as you don't have to apply it as often.

[kuthroat]

1. Open wound sucks. It will reduce your dps. Skip that talent.

 

2. Do you honestly think that your vital shot is going to do more damage than a scrapper? It wont unless you use hemo blast or the enemy is at less than 30% hp.

 

3. Pistol whip is something you will be using every time its up.

 

4. Back blast is a strong low energy cost ability. Not using it is gimping yourself as much as a scrapper who wont use vital shot.

 

5. Use shoot first. Seriously.

 

If you played a scrapper before then here are a few conversions for the abilities they have :

 

Flurry of bolts - Flurry of bolts

Vital Shot - Vital Shot

Back Blast - Back Blast

Shoot First - Shoot First

Pistol Whip - Pistol Whip

Flechette Round - Hemmorhaging Blast

Sucker Punch - Wounding Shots

Flying Fists Proc - Shrap Bomb (only if you wont hit CC'd enemies. If your going to, just tap f and toss a sabo charge and keep going)

 

See? You have mostly the same moves. Just switch them around a bit and youre fine.

 

mind posting your spec and explain your theory on how to play this spec?

[Leilei]

I am a bit confused.

 

Does the phrase "Increases the duration of vital shot by 3 seconds" mean:

 

a) take vital shot total damage, divide by 5 (3 sec intervals, 15s up time), and apply 6 ticks of the same damage over 18 seconds or

 

b) take vital shot total damage, divide by 6 (3 sec interval, 18s up time)

 

Option b would definitely reduce your dps, but option a would keep your dps the same from vital shot, but give you better energy conservation as you don't have to apply it as often.

 

Theere were 2 posts about this already

 

Its B btw.

 

Ill post build later...It was somewhere in the other posts but im on my phone atm x.x

Edited January 24, 2012 by Leilei

[Frostrazor]

wounding shot is terrible. My sucker punch crits for 3-3.5k wounding shot did right around 2k crit max even with both dots on the target. It's not good mainly due wounding shot being "white" damage and sucker punch is "yellow."

[DerPhil]

wounding shot is terrible. My sucker punch crits for 3-3.5k wounding shot did right around 2k crit max even with both dots on the target. It's not good mainly due wounding shot being "white" damage and sucker punch is "yellow."

 

Wounding shot does weapon damage +internal damage for every dot, which also gets the 30% dam buff from hemorraging blast and the 15% dam buff from cold blooded.

It hits far harder than sucking punch.

 

Perfect would be if you could do 3 wounding shots after a hemorraging blast. But you'll have aggro afterwards definitly.

[Frostrazor]

Wounding shot does weapon damage +internal damage for every dot, which also gets the 30% dam buff from hemorraging blast and the 15% dam buff from cold blooded.

It hits far harder than sucking punch.

 

Perfect would be if you could do 3 wounding shots after a hemorraging blast. But you'll have aggro afterwards definitly.

 

I tried DF out tonight so bear with me. (Sawbones/DF Hybrid spec) Wounding Shots critted for around 2k. Is the extra damage from there being 2 dots on the mob (extra 504 damage per dot) come in as yellow damage? I did notice a couple of 1000 yellow crits right around the time I used wounding shot, but I just chalked it up to Vital Shot ticking twice and critting.

 

If that's the case then yes Wounding shot does about 500 damage more than Sucker Punch when Sucker Punch doesn't proc Round Two.

 

I just wish it had a tad more range and wasn't so energy starved. Also a way to proc Upperhand rather than being in melee would be a god send.

[Leilei]

I tried DF out tonight so bear with me. (Sawbones/DF Hybrid spec) Wounding Shots critted for around 2k. Is the extra damage from there being 2 dots on the mob (extra 504 damage per dot) come in as yellow damage? I did notice a couple of 1000 yellow crits right around the time I used wounding shot, but I just chalked it up to Vital Shot ticking twice and critting.

 

If that's the case then yes Wounding shot does about 500 damage more than Sucker Punch when Sucker Punch doesn't proc Round Two.

 

I just wish it had a tad more range and wasn't so energy starved. Also a way to proc Upperhand rather than being in melee would be a god send.

 

When u use wounding shot, there is 1 white damage from the shot followed by 0-2 yellow damage ticks from each bleed on an enemy.

 

So

No bleeds - just white damage

1 bleed - white damage ad 1 yellow damage

2 bleeds - white damage and 2 yellow damage

[Minybird]

I tried DF out tonight so bear with me. (Sawbones/DF Hybrid spec) Wounding Shots crited for around 2k. Is the extra damage from there being 2 dots on the mob (extra 504 damage per dot) come in as yellow damage? I did notice a couple of 1000 yellow crits right around the time I used wounding shot, but I just chalked it up to Vital Shot ticking twice and criting.

 

If that's the case then yes Wounding shot does about 500 damage more than Sucker Punch when Sucker Punch doesn't proc Round Two.

 

I just wish it had a tad more range and wasn't so energy starved. Also a way to proc Upperhand rather than being in melee would be a god send.

 

From the tests I have done,

 

sucker punch - hits for ~ 1500 non crit, with FF procs of ~ 400 non crit. Average damage, 1700 non crit. (Only one FF every two SP on average)

 

Wounding shot - hits for ~ 1k non crit, with ~ 450 non crit damage per DoT. Average damage, 1900 non crit.

 

However... Wounding shot costs 4 more energy, and there is no UH refresh. With the proper build (energy conservation) and rotation, that UH refresh can lead to a 3rd sucker punch in the rotation every 10-12 seconds, meaning a total of around 4.9k-5.5k damage versus just under 4k with wounding shots for a default 2 upper hands at the cost of 7 more total energy.

 

On the other hand, If you spec to the 31 point talent in dirty fighting "Hemorrhaging Blast", apparently the wounding shot extra tick damage will do much more damage (30%) (I have no tested this). Thus, wounding shots for 2 UH =~ 2.2k damage a shot (30% more on 450), and thus 4.4k damage total. This is still about 500-1.1k damage lower than sucker punch.

 

Personally, I prefer Sucker punch over wounding shot since it produces a significant amount more damage with a very minimal energy cost difference and that 6 m range difference is not a problem for me. I could definitely see wounding shots preferred more in PvP.

[Kutsus]

From the tests I have done,

 

sucker punch - hits for ~ 1500 non crit, with FF procs of ~ 400 non crit. Average damage, 1700 non crit. (Only one FF every two SP on average)

 

Wounding shot - hits for ~ 1k non crit, with ~ 450 non crit damage per DoT. Average damage, 1900 non crit.

 

However... Wounding shot costs 4 more energy, and there is no UH refresh. With the proper build (energy conservation) and rotation, that UH refresh can lead to a 3rd sucker punch in the rotation every 10-12 seconds, meaning a total of around 4.9k-5.5k damage versus just under 4k with wounding shots for a default 2 upper hands at the cost of 7 more total energy.

 

On the other hand, If you spec to the 31 point talent in dirty fighting "Hemorrhaging Blast", apparently the wounding shot extra tick damage will do much more damage (30%) (I have no tested this). Thus, wounding shots for 2 UH =~ 2.2k damage a shot (30% more on 450), and thus 4.4k damage total. This is still about 500-1.1k damage lower than sucker punch.

 

Personally, I prefer Sucker punch over wounding shot since it produces a significant amount more damage with a very minimal energy cost difference and that 6 m range difference is not a problem for me. I could definitely see wounding shots preferred more in PvP.

 

And all of this is without even considering that wounding shots takes 2 high energy cost attacks worth of setup before it does reasonable damage. One of those being a 12s cooldown so it can be difficult to change targets quickly in fast paced battles, especially when assisting other DPS.

 

Not only that, but the primary hit on wounding shots is a white hit that can be shielded and dodged/deflected while sucker punch is a tech attack that can only be resisted. Considering everybody has 0.0% resist unless under the effect of a cooldown (assassin 100% tech bubble for example), this is another big advantage in that scrappers can avoid accuracy all together.

 

I really, really want dirty fighting to be a strong spec line, but as it stands it's just inferior. Even with the nerf to scrapper, it is inferior. WTB some redesigning.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Kutsus