Sorceror/Sage are seriously OP

[SensualPanther]

Not sure if they're OP or not but just played a Voidstar with 7 Sorcerors on the Empire team.

 

that happened to me yesterday lol

[Theagg]

ya the only thing I would like to see is to see the 50% slower movement removed from force lightning. Especially since the entire other team just spams it, I'm walking like a snail for the entire game

 

Yep, that. Once my scoundrel pops into view, I seem to be a force lightning magnet from the multiple sorcerers lining up on the opposing team. (Once the BH's join in the ranged attack it gets even worse) Trying to crawl out of LoS, once I'm slowed is hard work after that.

 

I can dispel some of those effects but the cooldowns are horrendous ( Escape is 2 minutes, Lucky Dodge a minute, Disappearing Act a full 3 minutes ) so when being spam slowed and range targeted it's lucky if I get out alive before making it to cover. If any of the opposing team give chase whilst I'm walking through treacle, well thats even tougher

 

Admittedly though I'm not the best PvP player on the block but that has less to do with lack of knowledge and more to do with dexterity issues using the keyboard...

 

One other annoying aspect is where you get the message "You cannot do that while in combat" when you are running away, and the other player is no longer attacking you. This alone also slows you down and makes you vulnerable. Unless there is a disengae from combat skill further up the tree that I have missed, this need to run X metres away before combat breaks is daft really.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Theagg

[Spootybeaver]

the problem is that they usually put up their bubble when I go 1 on 1 with them. And while they have their shield up, they usually start healing. And seriously, I'm only level 30. You go through pvp warzone right now for people who aren't level 50, and the highest single crit you'll see out of all the players is usually around 3.6k. Dunno, I guess sorcs are a lot harder to beat when you're not 50.

 

not only that but unlike force lightning, a lot of attacks have cooldowns so we can't spam it.

 

Just take away the movement speed slowdown that force lightning has and the class will be fine. You can't LoS when every single player on the team is spamming that attack and you're walking like a snail.

 

If you go 1v1 with a sorc/sage and they pop a bubble and start healing, your in luck! all you need to do is keep attacking them. By the time they get there 3sec heal cast off, you should have easily burned down the shield and rendered the heal that is about to go off completely useless. It is a terrible strat for a sage/sorc to pop bubble and start healing, total waste. I can understand that at level 30 it would be harder to burn down the bubble, but it can be done.

At level 50 you will kill ANY sage/sorc that tries to do that tho, because the shield only absorbs one good attack.

 

Only a TERRIBLE sage/sorc would stand in an open fight spamming heals (unless they are a healer spec)

I hope people realize that for a DPS spec sage/sorc the only viable heal is a 3sec cast, and it only hits for 3k when it crits.

[TetraCleric]

This just in, people in their 30's struggling with PvP in a system that is balanced at end game. gasp.

 

Seriously, why do people think it's even remotely feasible to balance any sort of ability system for varying levels?

 

That said, to the poster above me, my dps sorc can crit for 5k in combat on DI.

Edited January 24, 2012 by TetraCleric

[zeroburrito]

you're crazy if you think they're gonna nerf a class that is being played by at least 60% of the total swtor population. that's financial suicide. they will probably buff the other classes so we can have instagib pvp.

 

 

People making balance suggestions that aren't level 50 are stupid. You don't balance 1-49. You can't balance 1-49. You balance end game, at level 50, because that is where skills stop relying on variable levels. If you cannot understand this, you are a lost cause and should quit playing MMO's.

 

10-49 has less variation in power than the 50 bracket, even with all the missing spells/talents. if you thought sorcs were strong in the 10-49, wait till you see them at 50.

Edited January 24, 2012 by zeroburrito

[Astarica]

honestly play as the republic for huttball. you're going to be a snail for the entire game.

 

"Deals 4089 energy damage to the target over the duration of the effect. Also slows the movement speed of the target by 50% and immobilizes weak and standard enemies."

 

4089 damage in 3 seconds for a 6 cooldown spell that also slows down movement is really not that bad.

 

I'm guessing you get that from Torhead which still has some totally nonsensical numbers on tooltips. I remember when Torhead claimed Surging Charge Discharge did 6000 internal damage when it really did 1000. I actually picked that up thinking I'm going to one shot people with one button only to find out the game doesn't care what Torhead claims.

 

Force Lightning do around 2300 damage with full BM gear. It's still a lot of damage but it's not anywhere close to 4089. It is mitigated by armor, so it'll usually do significantly less than what it claims to do.

[TetraCleric]

10-49 has less variation in power than the 50 bracket, even with all the missing spells/talents.

 

How do you figure?

 

Also the poster above, my FL does 2960 over 2.77 sec in full champ gear right now.

Edited January 24, 2012 by TetraCleric

[DestyOwn]

Yeah, 1k shield. I mean, dots aside, is there any damage specced class that cannot oneshot throught that shield with one damage ability?

 

 

 

In what planet does cover make you immune to pushbacks? It means immune to ability activation pushbacks only.

 

We do a lot damage, I admit it, but so do sorcs / sages. In fact they are in par with us AND can heal. That's the problem.

 

Trying to paint a picture that gunslinger is somehow NOT squishy is stupid in extreme. We have 20% damage reduction bubble with 3 min cd. We have 1k shield and we have cover that gives 20% damage reduction against our mirror class. And the last and certainly the least 3 second dodge against all the white damage which is like 25% of all the damage spells around. We are probably the squishiest class in game with scoundrel and operative, but we don't have vanish (or whatever it's called here) and healing abilities.

 

Not saying this this class is underpowered though. It is designed to do AND take a lot damage. Just feel like in pvp there's nothing sage / sorc or commando / merc cannnot do as well or better than us.

 

ya they dont get it.

 

An hybrid class that does everything a pure dps class can do and more.

 

Same DPS output (and more) + Heal = Retarted OP ---> Did you say minimum 2 free Heal medals every WZ? (yes i did)

 

Do as much dps as a Sniper + Get healing Medals from Heals.

 

My alt is a sorcerer and its restarted how easy it is, takes a bit more skills that a merc to play tho. So a cat can't probably use this class but a chimp yes.

 

If you are a good sniper, you will probably be a god sorcerer.

Edited January 24, 2012 by DestyOwn

[Vewdo]

This is not news. Sorc/Sage has been ridiculous since launch and also in beta. BW hasn't addressed them yet, but I assume they will. The face that they recently buffed the Guardian is evidence of this. Sage/Sorc will get what's coming to them, just avoid PvP in the meantime be the important tanking commodity in PvE.

 

 

Ya im inclined to agree. I play a bounty hunter. Which most people already think is OP even though they are probably a tad under powered given the type of damage they are supposed to deal. but my point is as a supposed OP damage class i cant touch a sorc of almost any level. The bubble is rediculous, the damage is insane, and they can outheal any combination of damage i throw. Im not the worlds best PvP'er but i can play. Sorc and Sage are very very strong. They get far to many abilities to survive, while also throwing a astronomical amount of DPS. Im not tooo worried though, because its only a matter of time for a nerf.

[Spootybeaver]

ya they dont get it.

 

An hybrid class that does everything a pure dps class can do and more.

 

Same DPS output (and more) + Heal = Retarted OP ---> Did you say minimum 2 free Heal medals every WZ? (yes i did)

 

Do as much dps as a Sniper + Get healing Medals from Heals.

 

My alt is a sorcerer and its restarted how easy it is, takes a bit more skills that a merc to play tho. So a cat can't probably use this class but a chimp yes.

 

If you are a good sniper, you will probably be a god sorcerer.

 

FYI sorc/sage does not have the same damage output.

 

In fact Sage/sorc has a very low damage output, its just consistant. There is NO burst damage what-so-ever, its all dots. Dots that dont hit for much. Project is one of the hardest hitting attacks and hits for 1k-2k and has a cool down. Its not easy to whittle someone down from 15k health with nothing but small dots and the occasional medium damage proc. That is the reason BW gave them so many slows. Its the only way to survive, and you still dont survive long.

 

What level is your sorc? You must be a GREAT mmo player if you really think "its retarded how easy it is". Either that or I would guess you dont actually have much experiance playing that sorc. What is you sorcs valor level?

[NoseNuggets]

i think we need to wait a lot longer before more balancing is done. its still too early.

[DestyOwn]

FYI sorc/sage does not have the same damage output.

 

In fact Sage/sorc has a very low damage output, its just consistant. There is NO burst damage what-so-ever, its all dots. Dots that dont hit for much. Project is one of the hardest hitting attacks and hits for 1k-2k and has a cool down. Its not easy to whittle someone down from 15k health with nothing but small dots and the occasional medium damage proc. That is the reason BW gave them so many slows. Its the only way to survive, and you still dont survive long.

 

What level is your sorc? You must be a GREAT mmo player if you really think "its retarded how easy it is". Either that or I would guess you dont actually have much experiance playing that sorc. What is you sorcs valor level?

 

Wrath + Chain Lightning.... Where am i suppose to go? USE Defensive CD... O wait it only dodges range attack. <--- Im a sniper.

 

Sorc Rotation is easy and its easy to play.

 

Make sure you always have a shield, abuse los and o **** im about to die Force speed.

[SensualPanther]

This just in, people in their 30's struggling with PvP in a system that is balanced at end game. gasp.

 

Seriously, why do people think it's even remotely feasible to balance any sort of ability system for varying levels?

 

That said, to the poster above me, my dps sorc can crit for 5k in combat on DI.

 

woah I never said they were crazy OP. Even at 50, I still don't see how there are changes to get around the movement slow down. Huttball for the republic means running slower than a snail for most the match especially cause there are so many sorcs.

[SensualPanther]

I'm guessing you get that from Torhead which still has some totally nonsensical numbers on tooltips. I remember when Torhead claimed Surging Charge Discharge did 6000 internal damage when it really did 1000. I actually picked that up thinking I'm going to one shot people with one button only to find out the game doesn't care what Torhead claims.

 

Force Lightning do around 2300 damage with full BM gear. It's still a lot of damage but it's not anywhere close to 4089. It is mitigated by armor, so it'll usually do significantly less than what it claims to do.

 

thats still not bad at all for something cause movement slow down and only has a 6 second cooldown. Still think its too early for nerfs.

 

Also lol at the BH op claims. Just interrupt their tracer missile. Thats all they have

[Spootybeaver]

thats still not bad at all for something cause movement slow down and only has a 6 second cooldown. Still think its too early for nerfs.

 

Also lol at the BH op claims. Just interrupt their tracer missile. Thats all they have

 

Force lightning is also a 3sec channel. Meaning that that damage is broken up over 3sec (or 2 GCDs) and you cant do anything else while channeling. Essentially the player has to take them selves out of commission for 3sec and stand in one place just to apply a 50% speed reduction, the damage is negligible against any level 50 PvP geared opponent. I really dont understand why people think this is OP, seems like a fair trade off.

[TetraCleric]

woah I never said they were crazy OP. Even at 50, I still don't see how there are changes to get around the movement slow down. Huttball for the republic means running slower than a snail for most the match especially cause there are so many sorcs.

 

I never said you said that either. And the key is to LoS the sorc/sage, or kill them. They are not invincible. But if you let them sit back, they will gain an advantage.

[SensualPanther]

I never said you said that either. And the key is to LoS the sorc/sage, or kill them. They are not invincible. But if you let them sit back, they will gain an advantage.

 

I try to LOS them, its hard with the movement slow down. I don't think they're OP. But when the entire team pretty much consists of Sorcs, and its force lightning all over the map, it gets pretty tough just to get anywhere.

[TetraCleric]

I try to LOS them, its hard with the movement slow down. I don't think they're OP. But when the entire team pretty much consists of Sorcs, and its force lightning all over the map, it gets pretty tough just to get anywhere.

 

Of course, thats to be expected lol.

[Spootybeaver]

I never said you said that either. And the key is to LoS the sorc/sage, or kill them. They are not invincible. But if you let them sit back, they will gain an advantage.

 

True

 

Perhaps people don't realize that sage/sorc are very easy to counter, even easier when they are focusing on slowing someone down. Just start attacking them, either they will sit there and die very quickly, or you will put them in a defensive posture and they will force speed away. In both scenarios the sage/sorc are unable to continue slowing anyone down, or even deal any significant amount of damage.

 

Never let a sage/sorc stand there beating you up un-harassed. Easy.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Spootybeaver

[Varcado]

A glass cannon DPS or healer.

 

 

stopped reading right here.

[SensualPanther]

also, I asked this in another thread, but I like hearing input from sorcs. I have a 6 second cooldown for my interrupt. Sorcs usually try to bait me to interrupt me for their first heal, cause they have a second heal they can use. I always try to interrupt the heals now, but for attacks, which attack should I interrupt? Pretty much I want to know what stuff i would need to interrupt to drive you guys crazy lol Edited January 24, 2012 by SensualPanther

[SensualPanther]

also, I asked this in another thread, but I like hearing input from sorcs. I have a 6 second cooldown for my interrupt. Sorcs usually try to bait me to interrupt me for their first heal, cause they have a second heal they can use. I always try to interrupt the heals now, but for attacks, which attack should I interrupt? Pretty much I want to know what stuff i would need to interrupt to drive you guys crazy lol

pansy sorcs don't want to tell me their weakness lol

[Ra_tm]

He didn't put it as elegantly as it could've been, but the underlying point holds true... Marauders do amazing damage and even though your snare is able to be dispelled it's only a matter of time before you're able to close the gap and absolutely s**t*ape us...

 

I would recommend asking some of your fellow marauders what spec they use, strategies for killing, etc. I always roll Warrior and if I were equal geared right now as a Jugg/Mara I would be facerolling all day with pocket heals. I've been told that they're not nearly as much to play solo.

 

Dude I'm telling you. There's a republic guild on Trayus Academy that always fields premades of at least 3 Sages. They're prolly rolling in tier 3 gear but they are absolutely unkillable. You need twice the number of ppl as them to take them out, and even then it's a drag and they will surely delay you enough for their buddies to come and stop any capping. It's not my playskill. I can assure you I maintain DPS in the thousands and use interrupts and snares but that class is just too good at everything. If they focus fire your *** just once with that hail thing by the time you get to them you're toast. (gap closers on CD ofc) I have 16.6k HP atm.

One on one I slowly but surely get them down to 2k hp then they pop a stun and cast one heal and they're at half health again. And let me tell you, burning through 20K+ hp (with bubble) is no easy task, whilst after the heal they can continue DPSing me even if it's slower.

I will admit that they always come with premades and that's the reason why they're hard to kill. But come on, face to face, 3 tier 3 sages vs 6 tier 1 or lower whatevers will wipe the floor with the latter.

I may be biased because I've started to hate them by now but what I'm saying is true. They can do too many things at once. I'm not sure how this game is designed but to me it doesn't seem fair that the guy with the 2.5k dmg medal also has the 5k healing medal.

One final thing. When I dinged 50 I respecced to Carnage from Rage and yesterday in frustration I specced back to rage. My burst is definitely bigger now. I will have to see over the next days how I fare against them.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Ra_tm

[idipper]

As a fairly skilled and talented glass cannon, I can assure you, if there is a melee dps next to me, be it assassin, operative, or marauder - my dps drops significantly, and if my sprint/aoe knockback isn't enough to put space between the two of us, I'm in quite a hard spot.

 

Pick your targets better, be a little more observant and thoughtful with your approach. I can promise you a well timed attack is inescapable.

 

If you hit for nothing, well then, your gear, spec, or rotation sucks. I can't be within attack range of any decent melee player without taking large chunks of health rapidly upon my bubble breaking.

 

And they have the 1v1 utility to play rock paper scissors with us.

[PloGreen]

Sorry, if you don't know how to kill a sage/sorc you are either a under geared or clueless. Your complaining about utility when the class is utility based... How ridiculous is that? They can't have decent sustained dps and heals its one or the other. Damage is not even close to other dps classes so stop making stuff up.

What we have here is freshly geared 50s whining because they can't kill sorc/sage with 600 expertise. No ofc you can't, I'll tank 3 under geared people no problem, one person with the same amount of expertise as me I have to be on my toes.

Your acting like no other class has cc or dps, or no damage mitigation. You act like bubble is god mode - it gives us a few seconds to get a heal off on ourselves and other classes, yet you don't complain if it's on you - if it's so powerful how come you die when it's on you?

Our knock back is crap, it has low range, takes a second longer than instant and has a long cool down. Force lift if ur a healer, takes ages to cast, if ur balance it can be instant but then you have ****** heals. We have on other stun, and interupt and a few sustained damage skills.

We are basically a jack of all trades master of one but yes we have alot of ways to kite, cc, and gasp, kill other people.

How do you deal with them? Easy you focus them down, how hard is this for some of you to get? We wear light armor, so we need bubble. How hard is it to interupt and then stun? It isn't at all

None of you post your gear, spec, experience you just pull hypothetical arguments from thin air, no one is close to having equal gear and yet here you are pointing out geared players and blaming a class for either your own lack of skill/gear/experience.

I have alts, don't give me this gunslinger is weak crap, if you can't do decent damage in a warzone with a slinger your doing it very wrong, they are not even close to glass cannon? They have tremendous burst, way more than my sage.

Si much qq in this thread, do much of baseless or misinformed. Learn to interupt and realise a thing or two about TEAMWORK and synergy. Better that roll one, then I can laugh when you start crying for a buff.

No offense, but crying that such and such class need a nerf says alot more about you and your lack of experience/skills than anything. Decent pvpers get in with it.