Tracer/grav fix

[Tyrogon]

if you think putting a cooldown on the ability would fix it then you have no idea how it works.

 

learn about the class before you recommend a way to fix it.

 

they do seem really strong but it doesnt mean they arnt beatable. as its been said you can always interrupt this ability which helps a lot.

[KorwinOfAmber]

Are you saying that a spec dependent on spamming an ability should have said ability on a 20 second CD? Really? A 20 second CD on an ability that his for less then 2k on a target with zero expertise and 1.5 second cast? Did you even bother to take 5 minutes to research what your asking for? When you make such an uneducated poorly thought out post like this OP its no wonder people think you're trolling or stupid.

 

Just so you get a clue. Lightning sorc is dependand on spamming Lightning Strike - ability doing mitigated energy damage, with 1.5 second cast time. Doing mostly laughable 500-800 damage on most targets (as low as 300 on armored sometimes). With forced Lightning having a chance for additional 30% damage. (a reason why you rarely ever see Lightning sorcs, but only Madness counterparts). Most melee are dependant on spamming their low level attacks for procs as well, and guess for how much they hit too.

 

And you complain about your spammable ability doing "just" 1-1.5k damage non crit?

Edited January 24, 2012 by KorwinOfAmber

[stevesetoe]

I agree! nerf the one skill that makes the arsenal tree viable, make it take 60 seconds to build up enough procs to have HSM do good damage. Ignore the fact that Arsenal mercs are about as bad as it gets in a 1v1 situation or that 1 (ONE!) person with half a brain can render a Tracer/Grav round spammer useless in any team situation. No, instead of learning to play effectively as a team or for the team - Nerf those pesky Arsenal Mercs.

 

Nice trolling.

 

On a serious note though. If you play said class, wouldn't you agree that Tracer spam is a bit out of hand?

Just looking at the people who "ONLY" spam tracer/grav. DOn't you want to defend the class and make it not seem like any mong can pick it up and be effective with it?

 

The cooldown thing is rediculous, I agree. but the suggestion I proposed might actually get people to use skills other than tracer "ALL THE TIME"

 

I agree, the skilltree kinda revolves around it. hence just nerfing the damage to a point where it's worth using to do what it's supposed to, but not to a point where "JUST" tracer/grav is sufficient.

 

And I agree. 1v1 those guys are a joke, like, literally a joke. But 1v1 isn't what this game's PVP is designed around, is it.

[Kalantris]

My friend plays a Commando and his grav round hits like a truck, way over 3.000. No idea what items you're wearing, but he's like full PvP gear + 2 columi items, which give him a 15% crit bonus to grav round boosting it up to 60% crit full buffed, which is totally insane.

 

Don't even try to compare it to telekinetic throw, which is channeled for 3 seconds and hits for 6k unmitigated, is heavily mitigated, and doesn't get a bonus from item sets other than -2 cost. Also it's way easier to outheal than a straight nuke and can be LoSed.

 

In order to beat a commando's DPS with my sage (please bear in mind, that our survivability is also very different, he's wearing heavy armor, I'm wearing light, he has defensive cooldowns, I have nada except for force speed, which is useless against almost anyone) I need to keep my dots up, watch out for procs, never miss a cooldown and control my rotation perfectly. I'm close then, not sure if better (seems I do a little bit more). All that to beat 3 buttons spam he does all the time. I have no idea how he managed to stay awake during raids...

 

The whole design is flawed, it's not about the grav round, it's about how you play a commando.

 

Regards,

Kalantris

Edited January 24, 2012 by Kalantris

[Irxyyy]

Notice in the video he is fully geared? Has gaurd on him 24/7? Gets healed pretty often? Almost no one throughout the entire video targets him? The entire enemy team has no champion gear?(Can tell just by light sabers). Can go on and on, community tooo bad.

I notice how he spams 1 button and kills people, how more obvious should it be?

 

Of course, when a top geared op stacked with buffs got 9k crit on a naked lv.20 dude, the forums whined for eternity.

 

And that guy clearly kills geared 50s (not all champ, but who cares) with 1 button. Just wait until the sorcs see that video and start to whine, the devs are 100% going to nerf that and some other unrelated abilities, like they'll make your cc work on yourself or something like that.

[Jarfunkz]

You have to understand bioware's vision on this. This game wasn't meant for us, it was meant to sell to hospital's as a rehabilitation device for amputees, specifically fingers. If we got rid of commando, then how is a one fingered person supposed to rehabilitate?

[Jasonpm]

I have actually dumped my Merc and have rerolled to Jedi Guardian, so maybe having swapped sides after playing one to 50 and valour rank41 i can more easily see how a nerf to Merc isnt necessary. Though yes, Merc is weak in a 1v1 situation the class is better as a support and maybe a short cd(something like 1.5 seconds) on tracer/grav just to get the bad ones to use something other than tracer might be a good idea, i feel the class is pretty much fine as it is.

 

But, the class is so damn boring! so much so that ive rerolled to PT, then again to guardian . The best way to get people to stop spamming tracer/grav round would be to give the class more mobility because as it is, just about every decent damage attack we have is channeled so we cant move anywhere - this needs to be taken into account when people moan about Mercs/Commando's, no mobility so we are forced to use channeled attacks - Tracer/Grav just happens to be one of the better ones.

[GIGAR]

OP's suggestion was probably one of the dumbest I've ever heard.

To give it a comparison:

 

- Tracer Missile with a 20s cd

- Remove Stealth from Operatives

- Remove Force Lightning and DoTs from Inqs

- Remove Rage-generating abilities from Warriors

 

"but oh wait, you say, that would totally break the calss mechanics!"

BINGO!

Which is exactly what OP suggest, which makes it incredible freaking dumb.

[Irxyyy]

You have to understand bioware's vision on this. This game wasn't meant for us, it was meant to sell to hospital's as a rehabilitation device for amputees, specifically fingers. If we got rid of commando, then how is a one fingered person supposed to rehabilitate?

Oh... http://www.ablegamers.com/game-news/2011-ablegamers-mainstream-game-of-the-year.html That surely explains things.

[AndrosX]

This is a re-post, I explained in another thread why Tracer cannot be nerfed UNLESS they re-design the whole class.

This is for serious people only, if you mean to troll I could tell you that pigs don't have wings but you would insist they do and I don't feel like wasting time:

 

I'll explain a bit how Mercenary (and its republic counterpart) works, for those who genuinely don't know.

Those who want to troll will never be persuaded anyway.

 

Here is how an Arsenal Mercenary works (the one with tracer missile):

 

First of all it has to be said that BH has a heat bar instead of force/energy. Most special abilities have a heat cost. When the heat bar is full, the mercenary can only use the basic attack until heat dissipates or, if available, can use Vent Heat do dissipate 50/66 heat (66 if you put two points in bodyguard tree). Vent Heat is on a 2min cooldown, Pyro Mercs can purchase 2 boxes which will lower the cooldown by 30sec, full arsenal spec can't.

Heat dissipation is more efficient if your heat lvl is low, but the higher your heat lvl is, the lower your heat dissipation will be.

I don't have access to the game right now but if memory serves me it works like this:

0-39% heat->5 points dissipated per second.

40%-79%->3 points per second.

80%-100% heat->2 points per second.

In short: as a Mercenary you must keep heat low unless you want to be forced into a 30 seconds cooldown where you're absolutely useless and vulnerable. In order to have the best possible dissipation, we must keep our heat below 40%, unless we really have to finish off someone (to prevent them from scoring, so to say), in which case we'll have to deal with the downtime.

 

Mercenary Specials:

-UNLOAD: channeled ability, does good damage over its 3 seconds duration, 15 seconds cooldown. With proper template, its damage can be improved and it can have up to 100% chance of snaring a target for 2 seconds with each hit.

Via template, Unload has a 50% chance to vent 8 heat.

Very good ability, to be used everytime it's available.

 

-TRACER MISSILE: charged ability, 1.5 seconds cast time, no cooldown, 25 heat cost heat cost lowered to 16 via template). Each Tracer applies up to 2 heat signatures (depending on the template), which lower target armor by 4% each for 15 seconds and stack up to 5 times (i.e., you need 3 Tracers Missile to get the maximum amount of signatures).

Tracer Missile puts a vulnerability to Rail Shot on the target.. see below.

Also depending on template (full Arsenal have this), each Tracer Missile grants 1 Target Tracking (stacks up to 5), for each target tracking you get a 6% damage bonus on your next Rail Shot.

In addition, critical hits with Tracer and Heatseeker missiles have up to 50% chance of venting 8 heat (therefore, it's needed) and, via template, Tracer missile has up to 30% chance of proccing barrage, which ends the cooldown on Unload and makes the next unload hit 25% harder (see above).

 

RAIL SHOT: good damage, instacast, 16 heat cost, 15 seconds cooldown. The target must be incapacitated, burning or vulnerable via tracer missile for Rail Shot to work. Arsenal Mercenaries don't get the big bonuses (armor piercing, chance to reset its cooldown etc) on Rail Shot that Pyro Mercs get, however our high velocity gas cylinder (call it our stance, to be clear) lowers the cost of Rail Shot by 8.

It's a very good ability which we must use everytime it's available.

 

HEATSEEKER MISSILE: This skill is only available to those who go full Arsenal, is instacast, 15 sec cooldown, 16 heat cost.

Its damage is improved by 5% per heat signature on the target, meaning it's mostly effective once we have stacked our 5 (cap) heat signatures.

 

-POWER SHOT: same cost and cast time as Tracer Missile, no cooldown, but as an Arsenal the only benefit we get to using it is a chance to reset cooldown on Unload.

This special is intended to be the alternative to Tracer Missile for Pyros (who get lots of nice bonuses on it) and Bodyguards (they get nioce bonuses on this too, via proc).

Power Shot is pretty much only good to bait interrupts for us, because we don't get any of the debuffs/vulnerabilities etc out of Power Shot.

 

-FUSION MISSILE: damage on impact and burning on a 2mt radius from target, the burning lasts for 6 seconds. 33 (!) heat cost, 30 sec cooldown, 1.5 sec cast time.

It's a nice Dot and if the opponents are very close to each other (within 2m from target) it's AoE. The very high heat cost makes it usable only in certain situations or when we have our Thermal Sensor Override up (2min cooldown, 1.30min via template), which allows the next ability to be fired at no heat cost.

 

-DEATH FROM ABOVE: our best AoE, on targeted area, 25 heat cost and 60sec cooldown

 

-SWEEPING BLASTERS: another AoE on targeted area, no cooldown, but its 33 (!) heat cost make it hardly worth it due to heat management issues.

 

-MISSILE BLAST: instacast, 25 heat cost, deals damage to one target and little damage to up to 3 targets close by. Almost useless due to heat cost, only good to finish off a runner who's on the brink of death combined with rapid shots (our basic attack) and if we have heat to spare OR to prevent 2-3 enemies from capping an objective.

 

-EXPLOSIVE DART: explodes after a few seconds dealing damage to target and nearby enemies, 16 heat cost, 15 sec cooldown.

 

Have to cut it short now, I'm probably forgetting something for sure..

 

Anyway, if you read the above it's clear our rotation MUST be the following:

-Unload (the heat cost will dissipate before channeling is over if we're at 0 heat)

-Tracer

-Tracer

-Tracer

Now we have 5 heat signatures on target and 3x bonus on railshot

-Heat Seeker

-Tracer

-Tracer

Now we have maximum bonus on Railshot

Railshot.

If Barrage has procced in the meantime, we can do Unload again.. otherwise rotation restarts.

 

Depending on heat level and situation, we can try to add a Fusion Missile or Exploding Dart here and there if they are off cooldown.

 

The point is this: the class was built around Tracer Missile. If you don't like it keep in mind that they would have to change THE WHOLE ARSENAL tree to make the class different but still viable.

Adding a cooldown or the likes on tracer without changing the rest of the class would make Arsenal absolutely useless.

 

EDIT: I forgot to mention this but it's important.. all this can be countered by any class (any) with interruptions/KD/stuns if you have what it takes as in full health, shields or such ready to be used etc AND (most important of all) if you don't, any class can simply run away from the mercenary .

Some classes even get passive or active speed buffs, incombat stealth to escape, charge attacks to jump somewhere else and lose the mercenary, which make it even esasier.

But again, even if a mercenary opens on you, unless you're already half dead or wait too long, ANYONE can run away and there's nothing an Arsenal Merc can do to prevent opponents to do so or to kill a runner.

It's how the class was designed, it's essentially a turret: if you stay within range and let them fire on you, you're gonna die. If you run away or have the means to interrupt/stun/heal the first burst, you survive/win.

[Orrow]

Just so you get a clue. Lightning sorc is dependand on spamming Lightning Strike - ability doing mitigated energy damage, with 1.5 second cast time. Doing mostly laughable 500-800 damage on most targets (as low as 300 on armored sometimes). With forced Lightning having a chance for additional 30% damage. (a reason why you rarely ever see Lightning sorcs, but only Madness counterparts). Most melee are dependant on spamming their low level attacks for procs as well, and guess for how much they hit too.

 

And you complain about your spammable ability doing "just" 1-1.5k damage non crit?

 

That's not a problem with Grav round/Tracer missile that a problem with the Lightning/tele trees, try not to confuse the issue. As you said there is a reason we don't see that spec, or are you suggesting we shouldn't see mercs/commandos either? Most melee dont spam their low level abilities Sents/muras do but most of them are Watchman/Annihilation and are compensated with dot damage. Again I would argue that sents/muras need some buffs, no one does more for less then them.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Orrow

[Irxyyy]

This is a re-post, I explained in another thread why Tracer cannot be nerfed UNLESS they re-design the whole class.

This is for serious people only, if you mean to troll I could tell you that pigs don't have wings but you would insist they do and I don't feel like wasting time:

I read it, but don't really see your point. Operatives have gaps in their cycles (I don't even count energy, which is the same as heat, just reversed), why troopers/bh are any different? Also, there are other ways to prevent spam-1-button-to-win "tactics" than a cooldown. Of course, the devs are obviously not into creative balance changes, they'll probably just nerf break your spec.

[THEBelkas]

OP's suggestion was probably one of the dumbest I've ever heard.

To give it a comparison:

 

- Tracer Missile with a 20s cd

- Remove Stealth from Operatives

- Remove Force Lightning and DoTs from Inqs

- Remove Rage-generating abilities from Warriors

 

"but oh wait, you say, that would totally break the calss mechanics!"

BINGO!

Which is exactly what OP suggest, which makes it incredible freaking dumb.

 

Exactly. OP is an idiot. 20 sec cd on grav round...might as well remove the skill since the armor reduction lasts 15 sec. GG OP. GG.

 

How about a 3 - 6 month freeze on nerfing classes. Then, use this time to fix overall game mechanics/bugs/glitches. This will improve the game for everyone at the same time allowing a lot of players to reach endgame. Once a large portion of the player base is lvl 50, a proper analysis can be done to see which classes are truly overpowered.

Edited January 24, 2012 by THEBelkas

[TheRealBoz]

This is the... what? Sixth? Seventh thread that the OP opened on the same subject?

Dude must really like his Sorc.

[Machazareel]

This is the... what? Sixth? Seventh thread that the OP opened on the same subject?

Dude must really like his Sorc.

 

Actually he plays a Shadow. Last I checked he hadn't even hit 50 yet, he may have now, though. he was 42 a week or two ago.

[Kheg]

I notice how he spams 1 button and kills people, how more obvious should it be?

Of course, when a top geared op stacked with buffs got 9k crit on a naked lv.20 dude, the forums whined for eternity.

 

And that guy clearly kills geared 50s (not all champ, but who cares) with 1 button. Just wait until the sorcs see that video and start to whine, the devs are 100% going to nerf that and some other unrelated abilities, like they'll make your cc work on yourself or something like that.

 

Bolded part is bolded. I encountered this last night in a 10-49 warzone. Had a merc that ONLY spammed tracer missile. He ***** me in 4 hits, and probably killed me a total of 3 out of the 4 times I died. We got rolled in the warzone. I don't think anybody on our team even had 10 kills, nearly everybody had more deaths than kills.

 

Sure, there was a lot of bad/non-existant teamwork, but that doesn't change the fact that after about half the match I just stealthed up to watch this guy JUST SPAM TRACER MISSILE and kill most people in 4 or 5 shots without assistance. I honestly don't think he used any other ability in the entire match.

 

That said, 20 second CD is definitely NOT the fix for this. It's a tracer missile ffs, it's primary purpose is the secondary effects. Just nerf the damage of it into the ground and leave the secondary effects so that the mercs have to rotate skills meaning they have to trade off sustaining debuffs for dps. (Note, do the same thing for Commando's grav round too plz - and this is coming from someone who has a Grav-spec'd Commando!).

 

It really is that simple.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Kheg