OrionDammit Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I've been playing as annihilation for about 15 levels now. I love it, I love the extra survive ability. But I have one complaint: Deadly saber. It's a castable that only last 15 seconds and it's a crucial item to that build. I'm wondering why BW went this route with this skill? I would be happy with perhaps a buff to the time that it lasts or maybe let it be auto cast or something. I understand it's a very powerful ability, but it would be nice to click it and forget it like Ataru form. Just my 2 credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naethion Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Because having 3 stacks of Deadly saber up all the time, and the highest I have seen a marauders crit chance is 30%, not including Juyo increasing the critical chance of bleeds by 3%(Talented) per stack of Juyo Form means unlimited healing unless they put a really low proc chance on it. So unfortunately it has to stay the way it is. Plus Bleed out being bugged means bleed critical damage isn't even ticking as hard as it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisGuyThat Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 The 15 seconds is pretty crucial to the balance. With a potential 3 stacks, and with each lasting a maximum of 6 seconds before fading, if you cast it and then wait to apply the first stack it is easily possible to keep all 3 stacks up when casting it again, then maintain those three stacks for the duration of the next 15 seconds and so on. With all 3 stacks of deadly saber up at all times an annihilation marauder's dps is incomparably higher than rage or carnage (1k unmitigated ticks every 3 seconds, with regular attacks in between). With anything longer than 15 seconds or a charge system this stacking system would probably be too easy to maintain. The damage of bleeds would have to be regulated to accommodate for having three stacks up at all times, so while the average damage may stay the same the roof would certainly need to be lowered. While such a change is certainly an option I prefer it in its current form. The next time you attack with deadly saber 2 times back to back, you may want to consider using a force ability in-between to stretch the total bleed duration out further, especially if you already have three stacks. Truly optimal management of bleeds is basically the only true skill-factor in attack rotation (once rage generation and use is understood, anyways) If you're interested in why other abilities are the way they are and why they should be changed (at least in my opinion) feel free to read about the changes I want here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisGuyThat Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Because having 3 stacks of Deadly saber up all the time, and the highest I have seen a marauders crit chance is 30%, not including Juyo increasing the critical chance of bleeds by 3%(Talented) per stack of Juyo Form means unlimited healing unless they put a really low proc chance on it. So unfortunately it has to stay the way it is. Plus Bleed out being bugged means bleed critical damage isn't even ticking as hard as it should be. Actually, crits are ticking exactly as hard as they are meant to. The problem is the +30% critical damage actually increases all bleed damage by 30%. This was tested in a previous thread in this forum and confirmed by a dev/moderator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lashlarue Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Actually, crits are ticking exactly as hard as they are meant to. The problem is the +30% critical damage actually increases all bleed damage by 30%. This was tested in a previous thread in this forum and confirmed by a dev/moderator. I've read that post a dozen times and it would appear to me that we don't want them to change it, unless the migraine I'm having is messing with the logic center of my brain. I would rather have the 30 percent increase in base base bleed damage instead of crit damage since the base is more consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrionDammit Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 All valid points. Thank you . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxcolt Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) This is exactly what is going on. In an upcoming patch, this will correctly add to crit damage of bleed/burn effects instead of base damage. To compensate, Plamsa Blades / Hemorrhage will contribute more base damage to bleed/burn effects. This will result in a slight overall increase in damage output. As always, thank you for your feedback! -Cameron Thats the dev comment. It's pretty clear what it states and the outcome of the change when it happens. I don't know how you guys would want it NOT to change. Edited January 23, 2012 by Foxcolt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elicious Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 The 15 seconds is pretty crucial to the balance. With a potential 3 stacks, and with each lasting a maximum of 6 seconds before fading, if you cast it and then wait to apply the first stack it is easily possible to keep all 3 stacks up when casting it again, then maintain those three stacks for the duration of the next 15 seconds and so on. With all 3 stacks of deadly saber up at all times an annihilation marauder's dps is incomparably higher than rage or carnage (1k unmitigated ticks every 3 seconds, with regular attacks in between). With anything longer than 15 seconds or a charge system this stacking system would probably be too easy to maintain. The damage of bleeds would have to be regulated to accommodate for having three stacks up at all times, so while the average damage may stay the same the roof would certainly need to be lowered. While such a change is certainly an option I prefer it in its current form. The next time you attack with deadly saber 2 times back to back, you may want to consider using a force ability in-between to stretch the total bleed duration out further, especially if you already have three stacks. Truly optimal management of bleeds is basically the only true skill-factor in attack rotation (once rage generation and use is understood, anyways) If you're interested in why other abilities are the way they are and why they should be changed (at least in my opinion) feel free to read about the changes I want here You cannot refresh a stack of deadly sabers. If you cast deadly sabers while your old stack is still ticking it will apply a new stack of deadly sabers on your next melee ability. Also, I would not wait to use melee abilities to draw out the duration of deadly sabers. Using sub optimal force abilities in place of your high priority melee abilities is probably a DPS loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majinr Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 You cannot refresh a stack of deadly sabers. If you cast deadly sabers while your old stack is still ticking it will apply a new stack of deadly sabers on your next melee ability. Also, I would not wait to use melee abilities to draw out the duration of deadly sabers. Using sub optimal force abilities in place of your high priority melee abilities is probably a DPS loss. it does refresh it + apply a stack = win win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardim Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Deadly Saber is completely fine and has no problems in my opinion and experience. I absolutely love the skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehrin Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Because having 3 stacks of Deadly saber up all the time, and the highest I have seen a marauders crit chance is 30%, not including Juyo increasing the critical chance of bleeds by 3%(Talented) per stack of Juyo Form means unlimited healing unless they put a really low proc chance on it. So unfortunately it has to stay the way it is. Plus Bleed out being bugged means bleed critical damage isn't even ticking as hard as it should be. 30%? You must not meet many geared marauders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReFlexionn Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Deadly Saber is completely fine and has no problems in my opinion and experience. I absolutely love the skill but i secretly wish it was 25 meters i know man, me too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naethion Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 30%? You must not meet many geared marauders. I know one Battlemaster Mara, with about 60% of the main BM Set with the Mainhand weapon. He has 30-35% Percent. Thats a healthy Crit Chance, if you have any more its really pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardim Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 i know man, me too Really? Editing my post? And you do know what Deadly Saber does right? Why would I want it to be 25m.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztian Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I've been playing as annihilation for about 15 levels now. I love it, I love the extra survive ability. But I have one complaint: Deadly saber. It's a castable that only last 15 seconds and it's a crucial item to that build. I'm wondering why BW went this route with this skill? I would be happy with perhaps a buff to the time that it lasts or maybe let it be auto cast or something. I understand it's a very powerful ability, but it would be nice to click it and forget it like Ataru form. Just my 2 credits. Also Stick of clicking All the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pappus Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 The 15 seconds is pretty crucial to the balance. With a potential 3 stacks, and with each lasting a maximum of 6 seconds before fading, if you cast it and then wait to apply the first stack it is easily possible to keep all 3 stacks up when casting it again, then maintain those three stacks for the duration of the next 15 seconds and so on. With all 3 stacks of deadly saber up at all times an annihilation marauder's dps is incomparably higher than rage or carnage (1k unmitigated ticks every 3 seconds, with regular attacks in between). With anything longer than 15 seconds or a charge system this stacking system would probably be too easy to maintain. The damage of bleeds would have to be regulated to accommodate for having three stacks up at all times, so while the average damage may stay the same the roof would certainly need to be lowered. While such a change is certainly an option I prefer it in its current form. The next time you attack with deadly saber 2 times back to back, you may want to consider using a force ability in-between to stretch the total bleed duration out further, especially if you already have three stacks. Truly optimal management of bleeds is basically the only true skill-factor in attack rotation (once rage generation and use is understood, anyways) If you're interested in why other abilities are the way they are and why they should be changed (at least in my opinion) feel free to read about the changes I want here Finally I am not alone praising that technique anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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