raistek Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I think the point of scoundrel/operative is to pop out of stealth and kill someone in 3 seconds while he is facerolling the floor. Am i right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiottFei Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I think the point of scoundrel/operative is to pop out of stealth and kill someone in 3 seconds while he is facerolling the floor. Am i right? All of us pointing out the obvious are kids or trolls. Nevermind all of the links out there posting proof of this. They will ignore them asking for more proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doki Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I think the point of scoundrel/operative is to pop out of stealth and kill someone in 3 seconds while he is facerolling the floor. Am i right? I'll say it again: Burst damage is all the Ops has. Ops has no utility -- no closer, no opener, no charge, no dash, no knockback, no pull (all on a melee toon). Mediocre CC. Mediocre heals, with no burst stopping power. THE lowest sustained damage in the game, bar none. So, if you take burst damage away, there is absolutley no reason to play an Ops. This is the problem. They nerf the one reason for Ops to exist, but return nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdrain Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) There is proof all over these forums with youtube links. You are just choosing to ignore them I guess. Confirming that geared operatives stacking (already fixed) adrenals attacking people with 0 expertise in quest greens and oranges were overpowered. But then again, so was every other class in the same situation (how about those juggernaught 5 x 7-9k AOEs?) Equally geared players I can get to maybe around 50% life (*if* I use all my buffs, and *if* both hidden strike and backstab crit). And then... well, then I kill them if they're bad, or it's about even if they aren't. Operatives have pretty low sustained damage (as in, 3+ seconds after opening) and virtually zero damage outside 10m range with no gap closers whatsoever. The only classes that we can actually kill (equally geared and decent players) with some degree of certainty, if we open on them first are assassins/shadows and other operatives/scoundrels. TL;DR: time to stop using outdated videos with different buff mechanic and huge gear disparity as proof. Edited January 23, 2012 by hdrain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbtusmc Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Confirming that geared operatives stacking (already fixed) adrenals attacking people with 0 expertise in quest greens and oranges were overpowered. But then again, so was every other class in the same situation. Equally geared players I can get to maybe around 50% life (*if* I use all my buffs, and *if* both hidden strike and backstab crit). And then... well, then I kill them if they're bad, or it's about even if they aren't. Operatives have pretty low sustained damage (as in, 3+ seconds after opening) and virtually zero damage outside 10m range with no gap closers whatsoever. The only classes that we can actually kill (equally geared and decent players) with some degree of certainty, if we open on them first are assassins/shadows and other operatives/scoundrels. TL;DR: time to stop using outdated videos with different buff mechanic and huge gear disparity as proof. This.^ I knew with all the crybaby Inquisitor kids ************ and moaning on the forums the EA backed BW would cave and nerf Ops/Scoundrels. What makes me depressed, aside from the fact I will really no longer be effective in pvp OR pve is that if I reroll to say Trooper, well theyre next on the nerf block because again, they hurt inquisitors too much. So whats the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjaminnelly Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I'll say it again: Burst damage is all the Ops has. Ops has no utility -- no closer, no opener, no charge, no dash, no knockback, no pull (all on a melee toon). Mediocre CC. Mediocre heals, with no burst stopping power. THE lowest sustained damage in the game, bar none. So, if you take burst damage away, there is absolutley no reason to play an Ops. This is the problem. They nerf the one reason for Ops to exist, but return nothing. Look, no one likes it when their class is nerfed but at least wait for the changes to be implemented before complaining. I think the biggest problem was that ops and scoundrels were just doing way too much burst and BW wanted to try and bring it down to a more manageable level. This does not mean it's the end all be all, if it turns out to be too much then they will in turn, buff the burst up a bit more until it reaches a balanced state. They are first and foremost a business, they want to make money off of this game, so please explain why they would nerf a class into oblivion, therefore, inciting the fury of each person that plays it? Balancing isn't the easiest thing in the world, it takes some guess work but in the end they're going to look at the data and buff/nerf each class until we are all as close to balanced as we can get. They don't just peruse the forums and count how many nerf this class and nerf that class threads there are to justify tweaking any class. They will base the changes off of data. Have faith, Brochacho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelticfury Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 i dought you will wind up as cannon fodder this is starwars man get it right. its Bantha Poodoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdrain Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 ... They are first and foremost a business, they want to make money off of this game, so please explain why they would nerf a class into oblivion, therefore, inciting the fury of each person that plays it? ... Uhm... try applying the same logic to their pinnacle of open world PvP that is Ilum? Now that was a smart business decision right there. /sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjaminnelly Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Uhm... try applying the same logic to their pinnacle of open world PvP that is Ilum? Now that was a smart business decision right there. /sarcasm Oh man you're totally right, because no company can make any mistake whatsoever when creating a game, and in that same logic, no company may then turn around and try to fix that mistake. I mean come on, it's not like they can try to change Ilum now that they know it was such a huge failure.... Oh wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doki Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 They don't just peruse the forums and count how many nerf this class and nerf that class threads there are to justify tweaking any class. Actually, I believe 1.1.1 proves that they do. Hard nerf to Ops (see test server/patch notes). Noone else touched. How else is this justified? Were Ops rocking the DPS charts beforehand -- answer, no. Did Bio give Ops any buffs to offset their nerfed-into-oblivion burst damage? No. Since the ONLY role of DPS Ops was to do burst damage, and now the burst damage has been blown into oblivion (again, see notes, test server), there's no reason to continue playign the class. How is this fair or justified? Only answer possible: this caters to whingy forum Sorcs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdrain Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Oh man you're totally right, because no company can make any mistake whatsoever when creating a game, and in that same logic, no company may then turn around and try to fix that mistake. I mean come on, it's not like they can try to change Ilum now that they know it was such a huge failure.... Oh wait... Oh puh-lease. Beta testing. Several months of it. At some point someone over there in BW had to say "There. Ilum is the way we like it". 1.0 - oh yes, we've made a mistake. *drum roll* 1.1. Made by same people. Another mistake? Some people would call that a trend, but I'm sure they're just overreacting. Right? Sure, they can try to change Ilum. They already have. That's a nice business model, release an unfinished product, then screw up some more with next patch. All the way asking people to pay you for your 'tries'. Too bad it rarely lasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzrknight Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Just sso you know, you dont get rested xp on the ship >.> Yes you do , i leave my char there and i always get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjaminnelly Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Actually, I believe 1.1.1 proves that they do. Hard nerf to Ops (see test server/patch notes). Noone else touched. How else is this justified? Were Ops rocking the DPS charts beforehand -- answer, no. Did Bio give Ops any buffs to offset their nerfed-into-oblivion burst damage? No. Since the ONLY role of DPS Ops was to do burst damage, and now the burst damage has been blown into oblivion (again, see notes, test server), there's no reason to continue playign the class. How is this fair or justified? Only answer possible: this caters to whingy forum Sorcs.[/quote I can't give a straight answer as to why ops and scoundrels were the only ones to get hit. My best guess? They are trying to take the classes one at a time. Also, we have to remember, it wasn't the "DPS charts" at the end of the wz's that influenced their decision, why? Because a lot of those numbers are fluff. I think it was the effective damage they had, the potential to do so much to any singular class that brought down the hammer. I'm not agreeing that the amount of damage they nerfed is justified, but I can say that I'm pretty sure if it turns out to be too much then they will buff you up. It wasn't just the sorcs whining, we had a lot of threads where "Full geared" tanks were angry about getting burst down in a single knockdown. And truth be told, if you're underpowered when the changes are implemented and BW does nothing about it, then it's going to be a broken game in which finding a different mmo would be our best bet at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lina_Inverse Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Wait for the good scoundrels and ops to tell you how to play This post needed to be requoted. You'll see plenty of Scs/Ops still facemelting after patch. No one is going to hard switch lethality. Good operatives will still be good, it just might take them an extra global or two to kill the people they were killing prepatch. You should be happy that they don't like the damage, because at least now they'll be able to look past it and analyze the need for other changes. (Like mobility) Changes they couldn't make before because it was impossible to see the need for it through unintended inflated opening damage. Edited January 24, 2012 by Lina_Inverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjaminnelly Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Oh puh-lease. Beta testing. Several months of it. At some point someone over there in BW had to say "There. Ilum is the way we like it". 1.0 - oh yes, we've made a mistake. *drum roll* 1.1. Made by same people. Another mistake? Some people would call that a trend, but I'm sure they're just overreacting. Right? Sure, they can try to change Ilum. They already have. That's a nice business model, release an unfinished product, then screw up some more with next patch. All the way asking people to pay you for your 'tries'. Too bad it rarely lasts. Yeah they should have caught it a while back and not just because of the beta testing but because it was obvious that any faction imbalance would ruin the planet. This, however, doesn't mean that they can't redo it all, up to this point they've been trying and failing to a certain degree. it's totally understandable to be angry about that but that doesn't mean they can't and won't get it right after more patches are implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdrain Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Yeah they should have caught it a while back and not just because of the beta testing but because it was obvious that any faction imbalance would ruin the planet. This, however, doesn't mean that they can't redo it all, up to this point they've been trying and failing to a certain degree. it's totally understandable to be angry about that but that doesn't mean they can't and won't get it right after more patches are implemented. Oh my, aren't you an optimist. :> Anyway, sorry to the OP for derailing the thread a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lina_Inverse Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Yeah they should have caught it a while back and not just because of the beta testing but because it was obvious that any faction imbalance would ruin the planet. This, however, doesn't mean that they can't redo it all, up to this point they've been trying and failing to a certain degree. it's totally understandable to be angry about that but that doesn't mean they can't and won't get it right after more patches are implemented. It's no secret that Ilum was unfinished at launch. They received a lot of feedback on it when it was barely working in beta. My assumption is that it's still not finished and what is there now is a shell of their intentions until more majorly game breaking bugs (ability lag, etc.) are fixed. Now when you use my argument and then wonder why they are adding new raid content in 1.1 it falls apart(especially when you consider that plenty of 1.0 pve content is still broken and needs fixing), but I'm trying to reason it to myself more than you . Edited January 24, 2012 by Lina_Inverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceitfulJester Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 im only level 46 atm but i think i can still provide some input. does no one get improved sever tendon? i find that to be a good gap closer. as an operative, my goal is to keep healers locked down with my 3 interrupts and then picking off any stragglers with low health while spot healing here and there. the dmg nerf was inevitable, a string of 3 crits could easily take someone down below 50%, possibly more with buffs. i have my problems with some classes but you cant just cry about, you have to learn how to adapt. LoS casters more, heal then run if you have to. its not always about being the best dmg, its about using your classes abilities to their fullest potential. it was said earlier, but ops are great at defending. slap a few corrosive darts on the offense as youre going down and that can prevent the cap until reinforcements arrive. the good operatives will remain on top while the others still complain about to the nerfs. L2P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellatrix Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Sorcs/sages + Jugs/PT/Vang/Guard, there is no point of picking other classes then thoose in a premade. The amount of control is insane. No sane pvper would take a smuggler/operative instead of a tank/sorc/sage in a premade. So for me they never filled a role in a premade. Their burst damage wasn't worth the tradeoff. Edited January 24, 2012 by Bellatrix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyotecalls Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Wow, I went in to PVP today and I am *********** LAME now. I went from killing level 50's on a regular basis to getting owned by people lower level than me just because I can't do the burst needed to kill them before they kill me. I am SICK and *********** tired of this bull ****. Burst was our ONLY defense. We either killed them or they killed us. Now there is no or. It's just they kill us. AFK, watching Netflix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Gao_Gao Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Wow, I went in to PVP today and I am *********** LAME now. I went from killing level 50's on a regular basis to getting owned by people lower level than me just because I can't do the burst needed to kill them before they kill me. I am SICK and *********** tired of this bull ****. Burst was our ONLY defense. We either killed them or they killed us. Now there is no or. It's just they kill us. AFK, watching Netflix. uhhh, lol. yes, you had to kill them or be killed. there is no way for an operative to escape. yessir, no way at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyotecalls Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 uhhh, lol. yes, you had to kill them or be killed. there is no way for an operative to escape. yessir, no way at all. I'm a gunslinger, what do you propose I do? Use the vanish that is in the other AC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Gao_Gao Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I'm a gunslinger, what do you propose I do? Use the vanish that is in the other AC? you're a gunslinger? this is a thread for operatives and its mirror republic scum class. get out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sincos Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Lol @ all the kids who rolled FOTM and are upset that it got nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthLightSide Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Yeah, absolutely no utility. Everytime someone QQs about Operatives it seems to be someone that just stealths around and ganks random people from 100 to 0 and then restealths, not even using 2/3s of their class skills. true indeed. It's as if they not only want an insta-kill, but an insta-kill to where they receive ZERO damage to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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