STOP copying WoW and start copying DAoC

[Garbald]

ahhahaahhahaha, where is this 'pvp society' that said this? Becuase I can sure as hell tell you that all the pvpers on Arenajunkies that play games ranging from WoW to Counterstrike to SC2/LoL don't want gear disparity in their game.

 

DAoC was fun pvp but it was in NO WAY competitive, which is what people want this day in age.

 

Google "best pvp mmo of all time", nearly every single site has daoc in first place or in the top 5.

 

Mmos where never and will never be good for esports, look how fast wow was dropped from any important esport event despite blizzard promoting the **** out of esport wow, thats because mmos are not meant for esport.

 

Mmos are meant to create a world for the players to interact with and that very much includes meaningful pvp.

 

The sooner the devs realize that esport and mmo doesn´t mix the better for all of us.

[Joms]

You know DAoC was not all about keep fights.

 

Its mostly about 8v8 in open terain where you constantly had to be on alert for other grps roaming, thats hav you cordinate and switch tactics and move thats where the skill comes into play, large scale battles was when people wanted to gain access to Darkness Falls and it evoled into big RvR battles, or when an realm decided they wanted a relic to boost thier dps an a realm wide alarm went out so "all" in the realm had to go out to defend.

 

And about WoWs arena i wouldnt know hav it is now i havnt set foot in it since wrath where they facerolled everything to get a much younger audiance (10+) game is for kids not for grown men.

[-Alma-]

or copy Aions fortress siege system (hell, even copying dredgion would be an improvement too):

 

A basic guide on Aions Open World PVP "abyss" zone can be found in this months aion magazine: (link to the free preview version, article starts on page 23):

 

https://free.aionmagazine.com/preview.html

 

Even SWG got it mildly right with attackable bases (corellia, talus, naboo), before battlefields got added (wasnt a big fan of those tbh).

 

Albeit Im really not convinced the hero engine can handle large scale combat

[Dmasterr]

Most players want large scale battles because most players do not know how to play, and larger numbers scale down the importance of their individual mistakes, and masks class differences in power.

[Haralin]

GW2 copied from DaoC i hope they will do it well

 

Bioware? They even cannot copy good ....

Edited March 20, 2012 by Haralin

[Garbald]

Most players want large scale battles because most players do not know how to play, and larger numbers scale down the importance of their individual mistakes, and masks class differences in power.

 

Sure, but the nice thing about daoc was that the maps where big enough to support all kinds of playstyles, 8vs8 for example was pretty big on my server and 8vs8 in daoc was and is pretty much the most skillful mmo pvp you can have in mmorpgs, a single fight sometimes lasted 15minutes and not because of arbitrarily high hp pools...

 

You also could go out and fight 1vs1, yeah sometimes you where rolled by a group or zerg but there was quite a large 1vs1 community.

 

Or some small group action... you pretty much could do everything you wanted.

[Blamminator]

GW2 copied from DaoC i hope they will do it well

 

Bioware? They even cannot copy good ....

 

Responses like this and even the OP 's title says it all. Most people today that play just want to play the exact same thing for some reason.

 

People play "any MMO"

People get tired of it and talk about "New MMO" coming out, building it up

People play "new MMO" then get mad because it isn't like "any MMO"

Get on forums and cry.

 

You can go to ANY forums on any MMO and they all look like this. Maybe the problem isn't with the games, maybe the problem is with the players.

[Garbald]

Responses like this and even the OP 's title says it all. Most people today that play just want to play the exact same thing for some reason.

 

People play "any MMO"

People get tired of it and talk about "New MMO" coming out, building it up

People play "new MMO" then get mad because it isn't like "any MMO"

Get on forums and cry.

 

You can go to ANY forums on any MMO and they all look like this. Maybe the problem isn't with the games, maybe the problem is with the players.

 

Or maybe it is because most try to copy and get a piece of wows cake... which they maybe get for a month until people realize that wow is better at being wow then the wowclones are

 

GW2 copied from DaoC i hope they will do it well

 

Bioware? They even cannot copy good ....

 

I recently read gabe talking about esports preseason and stuff...

so they now want to copy wows disastrous attempt at esport, now that is really funny to copy that pos

Edited March 20, 2012 by Garbald

[Blamminator]

Or maybe it is because most try to copy and get a piece of wows cake... which they maybe get for a month until people realize that wow is better at being wow then the wowclones are

 

Thank you for proving my point.

[kevlarto]

Fact 2: DAoC was freaking great and has been deemed by the pvp society online as the best pvp game of ALL Times yet you dont cooporate with your OWN collegaues at Mythic who has infinitely more experience creating MMORPG games? That's silly learn from their mistakes by and learn from the things they created that was awesome.....pvp objective based war areas such as the frontiers, and create PERMANENT battlegrounds for the level brackets to enjoy.

 

I have wondered, about his myself..

[Melacon]

Performance issues....

 

That's what is the limiting factor here.

 

They can't do mass pvp, they can't do chat bubbles (see dev post on performance issues with them), they can't do public combat logs, all due to performance issues. Maybe when they iron those out, we can start seeing some cooler stuff being added.

[Desgarden]

Most players want large scale battles because most players do not know how to play, and larger numbers scale down the importance of their individual mistakes, and masks class differences in power.

 

If you are the one who just runs with the zerg, sure. If you are skirmishing and doing flank attacks to break the enemy zerg up - certainly not (one mistake gets you killed). Judging by your comment you must be the former.

 

 

Responses like this and even the OP 's title says it all. Most people today that play just want to play the exact same thing for some reason.

 

People play "any MMO"

People get tired of it and talk about "New MMO" coming out, building it up

People play "new MMO" then get mad because it isn't like "any MMO"

Get on forums and cry.

 

You can go to ANY forums on any MMO and they all look like this. Maybe the problem isn't with the games, maybe the problem is with the players.

 

There is for sure a certain percentage of people you describe. However, generalizing to such an extend is pretty narrow-minded or do you think just because you saw a leather trouser wearing German on the Munich Oktoberfest that every German wears those trousers?

 

As for mmos...ask yourself if there was an mmo which did really differ from WoW in some meaningful way? I think the only one was WAR...and it failed not because of the customers but because of a spongy character control and a horrible class balance (and some other things)

Edited March 20, 2012 by Desgarden

[Poulay]

Farming in DF for 1 week, then dying once, and loosing the whole weeks worth of exp over 40

 

Still, that didnt stop you from enjoying the game, which kinda says alot.

 

Farming DF as an infiltrator was so awesome....that was the funiest time I had in my MMO existence. I miss it...

[Dmasterr]

If you are the one who just runs with the zerg, sure. If you are skirmishing and doing flank attacks to break the enemy zerg up - certainly not (one mistake gets you killed). Judging by your comment you must be the former.

 

That was an observation, not my personal preference. Reading comprehension much ?

 

Read my other posts on the forum and find my preference, cba repeating myself in every random thread.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Dmasterr

[Desgarden]

Most players want large scale battles because most players do not know how to play, and larger numbers scale down the importance of their individual mistakes, and masks class differences in power.

 

Yes, and your observation and thus conclusion is wrong. Larger numbers do not compensate the lack of indivual skill (else you couldn't easily harass them often by flanking attacks or do skirmishing in general with much success). Logic much?

[mystbladex]

FACT 1 is WRONG get over yourself, WOW PVP when it first came out was awesome fun, on par with UO. Anyone who played when WOW first came out and didn't enjoy the MC fights at the mountain or TM/SS is someone who doesn't like PVP or just sucks at it.

 

The rest of your points I didn't bother to read since you discredited yourself after your first failed fact.

 

OMG Southshore and mill battles, those were freaking epic. And the random raids on crossroads.

[Rhaiz]

the pvp society online as the

 

Holy **** I think the entire office heard me laughing at this. Both floors.

[TeaMug]

You show how little you know, if DAoC had the budget of WoW or SWTOR for that matter and could have thrown up a PR Campaign like either game the scales would be different, the game ran up to what a million players despite NO commercial advertisement. Hell half of you peons didnt even know the game excisted Conclussion is DAoC has by all standards and remains by all standards the most challenging pvp game and if you say otherwise it prooves you are a complete and utter tool who has no say in anything on the interwebz, theres no argueing a fact sorry bud, You'd say to me with a straight face that random zerging in a battleground/Warzone has anything on small man/solo/Group action where you proove yourself the better or the worse player everytime you enter a fight? come now don't embarass yourself, the world PvP is something to learn and live by , the DAoC Battlegrounds are something worth looking into , and ya know best of all is if they implement them i'll bet ya anything that the Warzones will become completely deserted and we'll be back to World pvp - MMORPG Fact... People prefers killing / hack and slashing to do useless random objectives and being told by random scrubs what to do ...."go plant the bomb on the door noob dont fight people omg" is one of such idiot comments, if YOU prefer to play pvp for ....well...PLAYING PVP? ....PLAYER VERSUS PLAYER? ..... Not CATCH THE BALL AND RUN .....not .... PLANT THE BOMB AND GET TO THE CHOPPAH.......or the all time favorite....CAMPCAPCAMPCAPCAMPCAP...yea... F THAT.... more actual PvP and less objectives k thanks bye

 

Quite the aggressive little troll aren't we?

 

You forget that there are MMOs you (clearly) haven't played that might be *gosh* better than DAoC.

 

"the most challenging pvp game and if you say otherwise it prooves you are a complete and utter tool who has no say in anything on the interwebz, theres no argueing a fact sorry bud"

 

There's plenty of arguing it - It depends on what you define as 'challenging'. I doubt most of heard of it; but for me PvP in Neocron was the best - Aiming reticules, full RPG (not skill/talent trees), 12 factions (or was it 10? memory escapes me); vehicle combat, reward based metagame, death penalty, corpse looting, etc, etc.

 

Exploits and bugs killed it; but it was a great game and better PvP in my opinion than DAoC (which I also played for 18 months).

 

SWTOR does need a metagame desperately though; I quite liked PotBS until it turned in to a speed whoring gank fest. Metagame there was good fun.

[unicornfive]

I didnt read your post, but i vote it 10/10 only by the title.

 

This game deserves to fail cause instead of making something unique and adding world pvp, they totally ignore it and copy wow rated bgs....

 

If i want rated bgs (which i dont want) i ll play wow instead and not some fail copy wow-wannabe

Edited March 20, 2012 by unicornfive

[Dmasterr]

Yes, and your observation and thus conclusion is wrong. Larger numbers do not compensate the lack of indivual skill (else you couldn't easily harass them often by flanking attacks or do skirmishing in general with much success). Logic much?

 

You look at it from your pov, stealther type that goes behind blah blah...

 

You need to look at it as a whole and apply to both parties,-> the guy you are attacking mistakes don't matter so much when he has you 5v1.

 

All he needs is a team mate to pickup his slack, and nothing to do with individual skill. The larger the numbers the less will it matter that "i" afk and the group still wins. That means i won due to my pro afk skill right?

[Garbald]

You look at it from your pov, stealther type that goes behind blah blah...

 

You need to look at it as a whole and apply to both parties,-> the guy you are attacking mistakes don't matter so much when he has you 5v1.

 

All he needs is a team mate to pickup his slack, and nothing to do with individual skill. The larger the numbers the less will it matter that "i" afk and the group still wins. That means i won due to my pro afk skill right?

 

Though in daoc it was not that uncommon to kill many times your numbers if you had good positioning skill where good at ccing the enemy, kiting them... ie if you played good as a team.

 

Sure individual skill becomes less important in comparison in a team game, but that is just the nature of team games...

 

A team that plays very well together will in most cases beat the team of highly skilled individualists.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Garbald

[Dmasterr]

A team that plays very well together will in most cases beat the team of highly skilled individualists.

 

There is no such thing as skilled individualists. There are skilled players who are skilled solo and as a group, you can not be horrible @ pvp individually then magically get better in groups. If you think that you are better in group play than individual play means you are not noticing that your team mates are picking up your slack.

 

This "skilled" individualists phenomenon you are talking about are average players @ best that go noob hunting. It does not make them good in small scale pvp, it just means that they pick targets worse then them.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Dmasterr

[Scoobings]

Yes it's another post from yet another outraged player, QUIT building on to the worst failure that ever was an mmorpg, when will you learn to LISTEN to what the better players are saying rather than to listen to the worst players?!,

 

 

Fact 1: WOW PvP Sucked from day 1 till now.... it was a mass grind fight with no organisation, you qued with random crap players and it featured the same battlegrounds over and over again... IT WASNT FUN IT WASNT CHALLENGING, yet you are copying this?!? The worst parts of WoW is what you decided to copy?. You want to catch peoples eyes? then create something new!? don't copy what was horrible from another game?

 

 

Fact 2: DAoC was freaking great and has been deemed by the pvp society online as the best pvp game of ALL Times yet you dont cooporate with your OWN collegaues at Mythic who has infinitely more experience creating MMORPG games? That's silly learn from their mistakes by and learn from the things they created that was awesome.....pvp objective based war areas such as the frontiers, and create PERMANENT battlegrounds for the level brackets to enjoy.

 

 

The Warning: DO NOT Get complacent by thinking we're playing this game because it has more to offer than WoW because quite frankly it's the same and WoW is more populated people might aswell return under these circumstances, so dont rest your feet till you're done walking, you have the game you have the technology you have the brains to figure out what the eliteists are saying may hold some truths to it , now ACT accordingly and fix it please =)

 

You have a really weird definition of the word "failure."

[Noctournys]

There is no such thing as skilled individualists. There are skilled players who are skilled solo and as a group, you can not be horrible @ pvp individually then magically get better in groups. If you think that you are better in group play than individual play means you are not noticing that your team mates are picking up your slack.

 

This "skilled" individualists phenomenon you are talking about are average players @ best that go noob hunting. It does not make them good in small scale pvp, it just means that they pick targets worse then them.

 

Actually...

 

you can be ***** in solo play but excellent in a group. It's... really, really common. Some people are just better at a support role.

[Garbald]

There is no such thing as skilled individualists. There are skilled players who are skilled solo and as a group, you can not be horrible @ pvp individually then magically get better in groups. If you think that you are better in group play than individual play means you are not noticing that your team mates are picking up your slack.

 

Teamfighs require a slightly different skillset then 1vs1 fights, so yes there are players who are good individual and at the same time not so good team players.

 

Yes someone skilled in a game will always be skilled (but not awesome or among the best anymore) and not suddenly become a bad player but teamfights require you to be aware of your teams positioning, synergizing your efforts etc an indivualist in most cases is not able to look beyond his stuff and focus on the team effort.

 

So you are dead wrong on this one.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Garbald