It's time to address the imbalance issue BioWare

[RangKer]

Why?

 

I mean if the engine can't handle mass PvP then what does it matter if you are outnumbered 100:1. All the fighting happens inside WZ or in pop capped areas. A pop cap low enough that it renders the population imbalance irrelevant.

 

There is no "PvP" reason to artificially balance the populations.

 

I think the engine can, it's just one of those engines that is similar to WoW's engine and need that 24/7 365 care till its gets smoothed out, since ToR has load zones instead of seamless zones (and that it being new) the creators, moderators, and dev are working on multiple tasks at once to perfect the engine while smoothign everything out at once for us; it's almost trending/mimicing UO and WoW their frist 2years after launch.

 

But I've been tinkering with this engine, and it seems steady enough to be maintained, but buggy at times for no reason as well.

 

http://www.heroengine.com/

[Evuke]

excellent post, completely agree, something needs to be done or swtor will die just like rift did due to the massive population imbalance.

 

i can't believe these devs are repeating the same mistakes as recent mmo's have

[Mcstuffnstuff]

You know adding wookies to the Rep side would make sense and actually help out as lets face it everyone loves a wookie and that the Emp would never have them as their generally heirachy is Human > everyone else. + giving one side an crowd fav species is a painless way to try and combat this massive server imbalances t

[Illuziun]

The faction imbalance is probably the single biggest threat to keeping TOR alive for much longer. Everyone knew this was going to be a problem from day one, and they always ignored it, so I don't think anything will change anytime soon, expansion one at the very earliest.

 

This problem had to be corrected pre launch, the damage is already done, and repairing it is going to be near impossible at this point.

 

The whole 1 faction vs 1 faction game design is set up for nothing else then failure. It can work from time to time, but in most cases it is proven as unsuccessful.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Illuziun

[AngelicFrosty]

- Create a new playable race that would attract a LARGE number of players on the Republic side ONLY. This includes Wookiees, Ewoks, Yoda's race, etc.

 

/agree with an idea like this

 

if you want to balance out the factions you need to make it so the Rep is as fun and cool looking as the sith characters are.

 

i would also add:

 

- redo some animations so they look better

- redo or introduce different armors, im sorta annoyed that i only have cloaks, generally brown, as a sage

- rename troopers so they dont sound like cannon fodder; make it so they are an elite group, such as we have in the amry/navy/marines

Edited January 23, 2012 by AngelicFrosty

[zomgprophett]

I personally disagree with your ideas. I don't believe they should have to do anything to balance out the game necessarily, they should add in an incentive to level a republic toon if players really need it that bad to reroll.

 

In my opinion, no developer should add in content specifically for one side, without adding the same content or something of equivalent value to the other side. Does adding a race to Reps and not adding one to Imps really sound fair? I personally disagree. Adding a third faction could be interesting, but that's some massive development costs. Along with many ideas you posted. Content doesn't pop up out of nowhere, and isn't easy to add. Something like a new race would require voice overs, writing, cutscenes, phases, characters, skills, animations, effects, sounds, etc. That's a MASSIVE undertaking for just simple balance changes. Adding a third faction would require new areas, a whole slew of new characters, stories, voice overs, animations, sounds, and much more(PvP systems, taking into account 3 nations?)

 

After seeing the Ilum changes and how untested they were, them adding in any major changes like that doesn't seem to be ideal at this point in time.

 

Ultimately, it's up to us, the players, to fix imbalance. No server will ever be truly balanced, never. I was playing Imp on Swiftsure for the first two weeks of the game with a few friends. Ended up rerolling to Republic because of imbalance with 6 friends. It's not much, but it's something. And that's all that it takes is player incentive. We didn't reroll because there was higher drop rates, high experience rates, higher RNG rates for bags, none of that. We just did it because we wanted to, and we found a guild we're rather happy with.

 

Again, this is all in my opinion. Aside from faction transfers, I don't think BW should do any of the things you listed.

[bantros]

I agree it's a problem but one thing is annoying me a bit, the "third faction".

 

This is Star Wars, Republic vs Empire, Jedi vs Sith, good vs bad! Who the hell would want to play as this other faction? And what the hell would it even be?!

 

It really would be a waste of time and effort to even think about a third faction.

 

Republic has been shafted from the offset, it would be more than reasonable to add minor incentives. Will it happen? I wouldn't bet on it that's for sure

Edited January 23, 2012 by bantros

[Venilator]

I wish people would quit thinking that the developers have anything to do with what side I chose to play on.

I have characters that are both imperial and republic, so do most people. What you are whinging about is really the fact that you blazed to 50 and there aren't as many 50s on both sides.

Quit whining about it and just wait for more people to get to 50. roll an alt on the other side if you are so damn worried about it, but thats probably out of the question since you just want the developers to cater to you because you only want to play on your 50.

 

Clue, get one.

 

 

Truth!

[pawestman]

I agree it's a problem but one thing is annoying me a bit, the "third faction".

 

This is Star Wars, Republic vs Empire, Jedi vs Sith, good vs bad! Who the hell would want to play as this other faction? And what the hell would it even be?!

 

It really would be a waste of time and effort to even think about a third faction.

 

Republic has been shafted from the offset, it would be more than reasonable to add minor incentives. Will it happen? I wouldn't bet on it that's for sure

 

There's multiple neutral factions on the lore that could be introduced. The third faction would make this the best PvP game on the market because of they way it self-corrects anyway.

Edited January 23, 2012 by pawestman

[Spritle]

- Give bonus experience, valor, and commendations to the underpopulated side (mostly Republic). This could be an increase of 20%. This alone would help the suffering side to catch up in gear, and it will attract Empire players that are on the verge of re-rolling.

 

Retarded idea. 'Nuff said.

[pawestman]

- Give bonus experience, valor, and commendations to the underpopulated side (mostly Republic). This could be an increase of 20%. This alone would help the suffering side to catch up in gear, and it will attract Empire players that are on the verge of re-rolling.

 

Retarded idea. 'Nuff said.

 

EA did this in their previous games. You're retarded. 'Nuff said.

[Orrow]

The faction imbalance is probably the single biggest threat to keeping TOR alive for much longer. Everyone knew this was going to be a problem from day one, and they always ignored it, so I don't think anything will change anytime soon, expansion one at the very earliest.

 

This problem had to be corrected pre launch, the damage is already done, and repairing it is going to be near impossible at this point.

 

I remember Stephen Reid stating that the devs didn't think there would be any major population balance issues when confronted with the nearly 50% advantage the Imps had in the per-launch guild sign ups. I honestly think the devs were completely caught off guard by the staggering disparity between Reps and Imps. That's not me excusing them just pointing out that they probably had no idea it was going to be this bad.

 

This was also largely compounded by the fact that many people coming from WoW saw that the reps were losing badly in all the pre-game media and decided that they weren't rolling the designated loser. IMO its probably too late to salvage any semblance of population balance, people aren't going to re-roll at this point with out massive incentives to do so, and Bioware is seemingly doing all it can to make people re-roll the larger faction with more same faction warzones and the Ilum changes.

[zomgprophett]

EA did this in their previous games. You're retarded. 'Nuff said.

 

And look at what happened to them. :l Giving any outright advantage to one side is just going to piss plenty of people off.

[pawestman]

And look at what happened to them. :l Giving any outright advantage to one side is just going to piss plenty of people off.

 

Ignoring a faction completely will piss them off more. WAR still has a good number of subscribers as well.

Edited January 23, 2012 by pawestman

[Laicza]

Got some good points here man.

[Obbu]

My 2c:

 

 

- Create a new playable race that would attract a LARGE number of players on the Republic side ONLY. This includes Wookiees, Ewoks, Yoda's race, etc.

 

 

Good idea, just leave out the cutesy races.

 

Cutesy races are fine if they are limited to things like super-high legacy ranks and or super-rare drops or other method of gating.

 

Not so fine if you have entire warzones of jawas - looking from a design aesthetic standpoint.

 

Dont get me wrong - id be there, rolling a jawa, but the overall cool factor of the game would be overtaken by the "lul" factor.

 

- Give bonus experience, valor, and commendations to the underpopulated side (mostly Republic). This could be an increase of 20%. This alone would help the suffering side to catch up in gear, and it will attract Empire players that are on the verge of re-rolling.

 

Best solution imo: gives frustrated 50s an avenue to reroll, and provides an incentive for new players to roll the underdog side.

 

- Take away same faction vs. same faction warzones. This seems to be the most drastic decision. This will upset Empire, and it will further hurt small servers. At the very least, DO NOT make the next warzone same faction vs. same faction like you planned.

 

Worst idea here imo: seems to be aimed at making empire cancel subs, in order to even numbers?

 

2nd same-faction warzone is necessary until they can incentivise a faction-swing.

 

This suggestion actively makes the problem worse than it already is.

 

- Increase the chance of the RNG bags for the underpopulated side. With the vast gear disparity, I feel this would help out. Increase the chances by ~10-15%.

 

Gear disparity is far less of an issue than numbers disparity, does not address the main issue.

 

- Bring back the old dailies until the population balances out. Ilum is becoming near pointless for both sides at this point. Neither side can complete their dailies in a reasonable amount of time.

 

The old dailies were 'free champion gear' at least this way they are slowing down the progression. The current system works, albeit not amazingly with the number imbalance.

 

- Allow faction transfers. Probably the least likely decision. Would require too much re-coding, and it would clash with the lore. My suggestion would be to allow the transfer, but reset the story line altogether. This way they can complete it and enjoy it, and it wouldn't be too difficult to do.

 

Unlikely, for reasons you already listed.

 

- Introduce a third faction. Some will agree this is the best solution, some will hate it. A third faction is a self-balancing tool. If one side is too strong, the other two can work together. Probably won't happen, but we can wish.

 

Too late to be doing this - game either had to launch with it, or leave it out.

 

Not saying the DAOC model is bad - just saying its too late to change.

[zomgprophett]

Ignoring a faction completely will piss them off more. WAR still has a good number of subscribers as well.

 

Then it comes down to the lesser of two evils. Within the first month of a games life, where plenty of copies are still to be sold, I don't think any side should gain a specific advantage. WH didn't do it until well after it's release, no MMO should be THIS concerned about it within the first month. No content should be specifically developed for it yet. Rates shouldn't be adjusted yet. None of that, if people are rerolling because of foresight of imbalance, then what if the majority of them aren't 50 yet? On Swiftsure in 10-49 bracket, Republic STOMPS Empire nonstop. Give it time, stop rushing to conclusions about needing X and Y to fix Z. That's exactly what kills MMO's.

[Venilator]

EA did this in their previous games. You're retarded. 'Nuff said.

 

Yeah.. they did that in WAR. They tried to force players to play order by giving Order giant buffs to Order Classes and making certain PvP battlezones with an Order bias. Do you know what happened?

 

 

The Destruction player base all just left and went to WoW..... You can't force players to play what they do not want to play. To give one faction an advantage over another due to popularity disparity is ignorant and is a better way to kill game then anything else.

[RemyDMartin]

I forgot it takes an IQ of 20 to understand this. Sorry.

 

Well if you are going to start I guess it's fair game.

 

Yet another Crying and Complaining thread. How about I have an idea. Quit playing.

 

Only a month in...I repeat month.

 

Let me guess, you have no life?

 

Don't answer that. You are already at level 50 and complaining about not wanting to start a new toon for sake of story...

 

Seriously though...you are obviously another person who expect waaay to much from this game.

 

Eventually things will balance out...but maybe you don't know about patience?

 

I suggest you quit playing like the people from Republic who were ************ about patch 1.1 PvP ... only to have it fixed literally the next day.

 

You want them to come out with an expansion pack we all have to pay 60 bucks for immediately? Already?

 

How about this idea...play another game and then play this one less.

 

Oh, but this would be too easy because SWTOR "is" your life. I certainly couldn't dare suggest you get one (a life) ...

 

But, what do I know...I am only level 30 something with three alts at level 26-7 and a few spares at level 10. A person who understands this is new born MMORPG ...

[zomgprophett]

Yeah.. they did that in WAR. They tried to force players to play order by giving Order giant buffs to Order Classes and making certain PvP battlezones with an Order bias. Do you know what happened?

 

 

The Destruction player base all just left and went to WoW..... You can't force players to play what they do not want to play. To give one faction an advantage over another due to popularity disparity is ignorant and is a better way to kill game then anything else.

 

Could not have said it better myself.

 

Seriously, if give it time people.

[pawestman]

Then it comes down to the lesser of two evils. Within the first month of a games life, where plenty of copies are still to be sold, I don't think any side should gain a specific advantage. WH didn't do it until well after it's release, no MMO should be THIS concerned about it within the first month. No content should be specifically developed for it yet. Rates shouldn't be adjusted yet. None of that, if people are rerolling because of foresight of imbalance, then what if the majority of them aren't 50 yet? On Swiftsure in 10-49 bracket, Republic STOMPS Empire nonstop. Give it time, stop rushing to conclusions about needing X and Y to fix Z. That's exactly what kills MMO's.

 

No, what kills is MMO is ignoring obvious problems. There's a reason they made the announcement about Ilum. Because it's clear that the imbalanced population is a serious problem on almost every PvP server.

 

You say that no side should gain any advantage, but as it stands, Empire has the advantage.

[SignifyZ]

We need to hear something from you soon. It's pretty obvious a large chunk of the player base is starting to get impatient. It has gotten to the point where players don't have a lot to do once they hit 50. As much as I like the story, I couldn't stand doing all the questing zones so soon. I'm not saying fix it next patch, but we need to know that you understand that there's a problem, and that you're actively trying to think of solutions.

 

There has been a load of suggestions, and almost all of them would help to an extent. A few that have come across the boards include:

 

- Create a new playable race that would attract a LARGE number of players on the Republic side ONLY. This includes Wookiees, Ewoks, Yoda's race, etc.

 

- Give bonus experience, valor, and commendations to the underpopulated side (mostly Republic). This could be an increase of 20%. This alone would help the suffering side to catch up in gear, and it will attract Empire players that are on the verge of re-rolling.

 

- Take away same faction vs. same faction warzones. This seems to be the most drastic decision. This will upset Empire, and it will further hurt small servers. At the very least, DO NOT make the next warzone same faction vs. same faction like you planned.

 

- Increase the chance of the RNG bags for the underpopulated side. With the vast gear disparity, I feel this would help out. Increase the chances by ~10-15%.

 

- Bring back the old dailies until the population balances out. Ilum is becoming near pointless for both sides at this point. Neither side can complete their dailies in a reasonable amount of time.

 

- Allow faction transfers. Probably the least likely decision. Would require too much re-coding, and it would clash with the lore. My suggestion would be to allow the transfer, but reset the story line altogether. This way they can complete it and enjoy it, and it wouldn't be too difficult to do.

 

- Introduce a third faction. Some will agree this is the best solution, some will hate it. A third faction is a self-balancing tool. If one side is too strong, the other two can work together. Probably won't happen, but we can wish.

 

There are probably more, but you get the point. We have given you a huge list of ideas, and I think it's time you clue us in as to what your plans are.

 

You made a lot of good points, I dont think that the RNG bags should be increased for the lower population faction, just because they have less people doesnt mean they are less geared, in warzones republic spanks empire on my server, but we **** them on ilum simply because we outnumber them

[pawestman]

Well if you are going to start I guess it's fair game.

 

Yet another Crying and Complaining thread. How about I have an idea. Quit playing.

 

Only a month in...I repeat month.

 

Let me guess, you have no life?

 

Don't answer that. You are already at level 50 and complaining about not wanting to start a new toon for sake of story...

 

Seriously though...you are obviously another person who expect waaay to much from this game.

 

Eventually things will balance out...but maybe you don't know about patience?

 

I suggest you quit playing like the people from Republic who were ************ about patch 1.1 PvP ... only to have it fixed literally the next day.

 

You want them to come out with an expansion pack we all have to pay 60 bucks for immediately? Already?

 

How about this idea...play another game and then play this one less.

 

Oh, but this would be too easy because SWTOR "is" your life. I certainly couldn't dare suggest you get one (a life) ...

 

But, what do I know...I am only level 30 something with three alts at level 26-7 and a few spares at level 10. A person who understands this is new born MMORPG ...

 

Making assumptions =/= making an argument. Good try though. With as many alts as you have, you have played more than me.

 

Get a life.

[zomgprophett]

No, what kills is MMO is ignoring obvious problems. There's a reason they made the announcement about Ilum. Because it's clear that the imbalanced population is a serious problem on almost every PvP server.

 

You say that no side should gain any advantage, but as it stands, Empire has the advantage.

 

It has an advantage because of PLAYER CHOICE, not because of developer intent. Imbalances on Ilum? Did you completely skip the part where I stated most of us who have rerolled on PvP servers are most likely 25-40?

 

Remind me again how long this game has been out? A month right? ONE month, correct?

 

And you're already saying that BW needs to come out with content specifically for one side? Really? That they need to adjust rates because, out of the course of the initial subscribers, that there is an imbalance? Seriously? And the fact that you're apparently not open to discussion on the topic. Keeping the attitude of "It's my way or nothing" is rather ignorant, don't you think?

 

Think things through buddy, and think hard. This game cost how much money to make? Upwards of 200m USD right? And you're already saying that they need to come out with FACTION specific content, due to imbalance? No, they don't need to. This is how balance works. Either get use to it or move on.

[RemyDMartin]

You act like the good side being imbalanced is a new thing. this happens in all mmos.

Thats why i rolled empire. That and i rolled with other hardcore pvpers ive played with for the last 5 years.

 

evil side will always have the better pvpers and usually the good side has the better pvers (care bears).

 

Wow had the same problem but has gotten better by introducing arenas which hid the problem of imbalance.

 

Short answer, there is no fix other than to give yu something else to do that takes your mind off the imbalance.

 

A side note; recently i have been playing alot of huttball on swiftsure and i play against alot of empire with a few republic scattered about. Its happening everywhere.

Funny I played "vanilla (as the kids are calling it these days)" world of warcraft back in the day before it got ridiculous and remember being one of the few horde in a mass of "good guy" alliance...