When do flashpoints become less forgiving?

[Elradrielas]

Hi tanking community.

 

I'm a new tank, having spent most of my time in MMOs as a healer. I've devouring the threads in this sub forum and am pretty familiar with the notion that tanking in SWTOR isn't the face roll that post-BC WoW has become. Frankly, this is exactly why I'm interested in tanking in this game ... I want the challenge that comes with needing to plan and execute fights rather than simply pressing the easy-button.

 

However, after running just a few flashpoints, I haven't found them to be terribly challenging. (At the moment, I'm a lvl 24 shadow and have just run HS and Athiss a couple of times). It seems like, so far, zerg mode trash pulling is working just fine, which only seems to encourage poor DPS play, AoE spam, DPS'ers pulling, you name it. So as much as I'd like to demand that my teammates wait for my lead, I'm finding it hard to make the case for well thought out pulls, using cc, focus fire, etc.

 

I'm assuming that these are just simpler, starter flashpoints and the harder stuff, the stuff that requires thought, coordination and communication, are coming later. Is this true? When do become less forgiving and more noticeably start punishing a.s.s.h.a.t behavior?

 

Since zerg-mode instancing is boring to me, I'd almost rather just power level and wait until later to learn to tank ... when FPs are harder, and possibly, just possibly, DPS'ers have started to shift their thinking. Is this flawed thinking or are there things to be learned in these easier instances?

 

Also, I hope this isn't coming across as a whinge or a troll. I'm really appreciating all the insights I've gathered from this forum. I'm determined to learn how to tank the right way, but am just not sure if that's possible at such a low level.

 

Regards, Elrad.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Elradrielas

[mattmuffinman]

I can't fully answer your question as my highest level char is 27 or so, but I have a couple of points for your consideration.

 

1. This game makes it very easy to overlevel yourself for the content. By the time you get to the flash point's coresponding planet and get offered the mission you can be 3-4 levels over what is recommended.

 

2. A good way to introduce a challenge is to attempt heroic+4s with just 2 or 3 people.

[JohnyMessaround]

To answer your question, yes, more or less FPs do get more challenging as you progress.

 

Though, in fairness, I'd say there are some Heroic 4s that are probably more challenging than most of the FPs I've done. (And of course I can't think of any right now haha).

 

Part of the problem you may be having is just in having good teammates for your groups, I find that makes the biggest difference of all. If everyone's squared away and I know from experience they're good at what they do I have no problem rolling w/ just three of us and an NPC on an Heroic 4. That being said, if even one in the group doesn't pull his/her weight it's over from the get go.

 

My advice (as a lvl 50 tank who enjoys tanking well immensely) is to learn how to tank as best you can, it may seem like a waste of time now (and I can admit being a bit bored in more than a few boss fights) but down the road the accolades from other players will more than make up for any second thoughts about it now.

 

As for dealing w/ bad players in group, well, there are other threads about that, but I just try to put em in their place as gently as possible. Everything's a learning experience and everyone has a bad day once in a while!

 

Best of luck!

[vaca]

The flash points become unforgiving about Directive 7 ish for empire side. SO high 40's almost 50. The level 50 ones become a lil less forgiving. Hardmodes will Kick your teeth in untill you obtain gear and even then some of the bosses are just harsh. I am a 50 assasin tank and love it to death!

[Fishcatch]

I feel Mando Raiders is where stuff becomes more challenging and you start seeing pulls made up of Strongs/Elites and CC becomes important for some pulls. The Imperial/Republic boarding party fight is a HUGE test of skill for newer players IMO. CC smart, learn that the SW/JK has no aggro table, and maintain a smart kill order.

[AsinineTangent]

I found all the normal mode flashpoints very simple. So to answer your question, at 50. D7 is probably the first instance where bosses can actually pose some kind of threat though.

[Fishcatch]

I found all the normal mode flashpoints very simple. So to answer your question, at 50. D7 is probably the first instance where bosses can actually pose some kind of threat though.

Directive 7 is indeed quite a challenge without handholding- The Defender boss is one hell of a fight for first-timers. A tricky gimmick to manage and a lot of huge spike dmg flying around, especially on the tank. The final boss is more a test of how good you can run around like a chicken with your head cut off, but that can pose a challenge as well, especially if you have DPS who don't understand the concept that you need to wait until the final stage to actually attack the boss itself.. Edited January 24, 2012 by Fishcatch

[Gankstah]

To address the OP without stating what's already been said,

 

Early Flashpoints are specifically designed to be low key. Esselles/Black Talon for instance, is designed with the understanding that the group would neither have a Tank nor a healer. Since Tanks don't really become tanks until their mid 30s and healers don't start packing a punch until late 30s early 40s BioWare designed Flashpoints to be very laid back.

 

Once you start in on HM/NMM/Ops you'll find more of that challenge you crave. Up until then the game is about enjoying the story and getting proficient with your class.

[Elradrielas]

To address the OP without stating what's already been said,

 

Early Flashpoints are specifically designed to be low key. Esselles/Black Talon for instance, is designed with the understanding that the group would neither have a Tank nor a healer. Since Tanks don't really become tanks until their mid 30s and healers don't start packing a punch until late 30s early 40s BioWare designed Flashpoints to be very laid back.

 

Once you start in on HM/NMM/Ops you'll find more of that challenge you crave. Up until then the game is about enjoying the story and getting proficient with your class.

 

Thanks for this and all the other posts. I'll just chill and enjoy the ride.

[trakata]

I'd agree that several Heroic 4s are much more difficult than flashpoints. The first one in particular I remember is on Tatooine (at least for Republic) called "Search And Rescue." There were a ton of elites and strongs running around and our group (we were pugs at the time) wiped very quickly. This one forced learning of correct habits (CC 2 mobs, focus fire one guy, move on to the next) and I definitely picked up a lot of good tanking skills there.

 

So my advice? Run the Heroic 4s. You'll get more challenge as you progress.

[Fishcatch]

I'd agree that several Heroic 4s are much more difficult than flashpoints. The first one in particular I remember is on Tatooine (at least for Republic) called "Search And Rescue." There were a ton of elites and strongs running around and our group (we were pugs at the time) wiped very quickly. This one forced learning of correct habits (CC 2 mobs, focus fire one guy, move on to the next) and I definitely picked up a lot of good tanking skills there.

 

So my advice? Run the Heroic 4s. You'll get more challenge as you progress.

Not many Heroic 4s are like this, though... a lot of them only need a healer and a tank and some of them can be soloed with some skill. There are definitely some that pose a serious challenge, however... I recall one I recently did in Voss called Not Afraid Enough... the final boss was amazingly hard for a heroic 4 boss, me and my tank buddy ended up needing to bring 2 geared level 50 DPS to take him down and even then it was hard. You have an annoying pet to deal with, and he lays out huge AoE dmg spikes with fair frequency. Edited January 25, 2012 by Fishcatch