Ryotknife Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) why does one raid? why does one grind valor? why does one grind commandments? gear buddy, gear. and yea its fun getting better gear that you deserve because you ARE better than someone else. most of you dont want there to be ranked systems because you know you will never obtain that gear, which i understand. but all your reasons are invalid, they don't make sense. Its funny how people think they are entitled to stuff without having to earn it, if you want the best gear you EARN it. if i could keep my raid spot and still be an effective member of the group during an encounter, i would raid naked if i could have an equal opportunity to kill someone of the highest level pvp gear and it didnt matter if i had the best pvp gear or was naked, i wouldnt care about gear well, other than aesthetics. but i would probably go imperial pilot uniform if i had a choice, the helm is bad#$%. i dont get involve with the dps meter drama like a lot of other people do. but i admit, in this particular regard I am the minority Edited February 4, 2012 by Ryotknife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryotknife Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 this is not real life. this is a video game. some people play for that crazy thing you call fun. here lets find out if its about gear or about the advantage over others..... do you support arena gear that is not usable in warzones? not a bad idea but what about world pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsemaster Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 why does one raid? why does one grind valor? why does one grind commandments? gear buddy, gear. and yea its fun getting better gear that you deserve because you ARE better than someone else. most of you dont want there to be ranked systems because you know you will never obtain that gear, which i understand. but all your reasons are invalid, they don't make sense. Its funny how people think they are entitled to stuff without having to earn it, if you want the best gear you EARN it. I feel sorry for you. I really do. Some of us would like a challenge beyond "How many hours can you play this game?" Grind =/= skill, and some of us would enjoy SKILL-BASED PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Oops. 53 comps would be with 8 classes, WoW has 10, so there are actually 120 possible comps. So out of the 120 possible comps 3 make up more than half of the top teams. So please, don't come here and tell us it's all about skill and not about the comp, everyone who's not a complete idiot knows better. arena is skill based? ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ursuul Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 that actually is a great idea oh, well then sure. If bioware that then i would not have a problem with it. But i have yet to see a game implement that system, ie: blizzard and WoW. I'm just real uneasy with threads that ask for arena after seeing what it did to WoW. (gladiator geared toons in non rated bg's) all im asking for is a level playing field for the casuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swaggz Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 this is not real life. this is a video game. some people play for that crazy thing you call fun. here lets find out if its about gear or about the advantage over others..... do you support arena gear that is not usable in warzones? I would go even as far as unmodded gear (based on valor) that has the same basic stats as champ/battlemaster gear that they can remove the mods from the "less skilled gear" and put into the "skilled" gear and have a different look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westlywillis Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I feel sorry for you. I really do. Some of us would like a challenge beyond "How many hours can you play this game?" Grind =/= skill, and some of us would enjoy SKILL-BASED PvP. do you know how to read? grinding valor is NOT skill based. using a ranked ladder system IS skill based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemhook Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Until this game is balanced, and anybody who says it is or even close is just ignorant, then Arena's have no place in this game. PvP needs to be altered for balance to equal both sides not just one, Diminishing returns needs to be included, mitigation needs to be sorted, there is no Skill involved in playing a character, it's about who can put out the most damage first, that's what counts, anybody who says different is delusional. There are no mirrored classes, unless all skills are identical but with different names, they are not mirrored, have them wield 2 sabers or a certain type of gun is not considered mirrored accept in the eyes of BW. Having one class benefit from an ability more so that it's assumed counter part is flawed, this is why Arena's should never be in this game. CC's need a restriction, the sad excuse of the one they have now is insufficient, a player should be immune for 3 seconds at least before they can be cc'd again after the first one, forcing the player to adapt. gear score needs to be incorporated to even the playing field, being pitted against 2/3/5 BM's with a certain amount of gear is by any accounts an unfair advantage,(Which without a gear scoring method is guaranteed to happen), given the current pvp situation which BW closes there eyes and hopes to just go away. There are many more reason but i cant be bothered to name them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swaggz Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 So what I'm getting from this is that skill has more to play than the actual comp of the team...Hmmm...interesting. I may be one of the idiots here, but after looking at the link below, it seems to tell me that comp has more to do with arena than skill, which also tells me that FOTM also plays a part. http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stats-compsrepartition-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0---0.html Now, if I wanted to go really indeph into this (sorry but I do have limits) I can bet the spikes/valleys in other comps would also match up right around patches that either buffed or nerfed certain classes. So as long as you have the right comp, then the skill needed would be less than those without. Hmmm... Of course, I am an idiot so who knows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westlywillis Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Until this game is balanced, and anybody who says it is or even close is just ignorant, then Arena's have no place in this game. PvP needs to be altered for balance to equal both sides not just one, Diminishing returns needs to be included, mitigation needs to be sorted, there is no Skill involved in playing a character, it's about who can put out the most damage first, that's what counts, anybody who says different is delusional. There are no mirrored classes, unless all skills are identical but with different names, they are not mirrored, have them wield 2 sabers or a certain type of gun is not considered mirrored accept in the eyes of BW. Having one class benefit from an ability more so that it's assumed counter part is flawed, this is why Arena's should never be in this game. CC's need a restriction, the sad excuse of the one they have now is insufficient, a player should be immune for 3 seconds at least before they can be cc'd again after the first one, forcing the player to adapt. gear score needs to be incorporated to even the playing field, being pitted against 2/3/5 BM's with a certain amount of gear is by any accounts an unfair advantage,(Which without a gear scoring method is guaranteed to happen), given the current pvp situation which BW closes there eyes and hopes to just go away. There are many more reason but i cant be bothered to name them all. No one is saying add arena to this game tomorrow. but simply saying no arena period, is just plain dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghingis Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 define top player. if we are talking about gladiator level then lawl no. ive kicked their rears so hard in WZ due to their terribadness in bgs. if we are talking about tournament level players, ill agree. you do not get to that level without being highly skilled in all relevant pvp subjects. but keep in mind you are talking about maybe a hundred people out of 11 million Been in a couple of tournaments, had my fair shares of R1 titles aswell as always playing with and against the top players in europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ursuul Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 not a bad idea but what about world pvp. they should allow glad or whatever the equivelant gear would be for world PvP. Kinda gives a "the world is a dangerous place feel to it" but this discussion strays from my point of "why do you need better gear if your good?" im all for vanity items to show off but the stat advantage seems counter productive. OR they could make the stat increases on gear from arenas in a way that they aren't game changing. ever play a rogue in WoW? did you notice a diff in the entire feel of the game once you got your 1850, or whatever the rating requirement was for weapons, and any other weapon you could get short of progression raiding? I'm tired of having to go through a "hazing" period to compete in mmo's when it comes to pvp. i can stand the grind to be at a level where you dont just get steamrolled but that grind needs a definite end. if im not having fun due to a gear difference i need to know its just a time sink and that i will eventually get equall gear or gear close enough that i wont attribute a win to someone's gear. WoW did not do this right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grafikk Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Because arenas killed wow pvp and are a horrible idea... im all for them adding some other form of pvp in this game, but not that. Also they nedd to fix the current issues first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemhook Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 No one is saying add arena to this game tomorrow. but simply saying no arena period, is just plain dumb. Not Dumb at all, this is an opinion. and at it's current state and unless it is drastically changed then my opinion based on my previous post is that this game should never have an Arena, based on it's current state. If that where to change and a difference was made and equal affection to both sides made then possibly so would my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westlywillis Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 So what I'm getting from this is that skill has more to play than the actual comp of the team...Hmmm...interesting. I may be one of the idiots here, but after looking at the link below, it seems to tell me that comp has more to do with arena than skill, which also tells me that FOTM also plays a part. http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stats-compsrepartition-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0---0.html Now, if I wanted to go really indeph into this (sorry but I do have limits) I can bet the spikes/valleys in other comps would also match up right around patches that either buffed or nerfed certain classes. So as long as you have the right comp, then the skill needed would be less than those without. Hmmm... Of course, I am an idiot so who knows... Thanks for the common sense graph, of course classes which are buffed/nerfed will be played more/less. I don't care, and thats human nature. If this is your reasoning to not have arena in the game than I'm lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swaggz Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 No one is saying add arena to this game tomorrow. but simply saying no arena period, is just plain dumb. But Arena based on non-gear Arena only rewards, titles, and lets say merc commendations isn't enough??? I mean there would be Arena PvP if this were the case... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Gao_Gao Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 confirming that arenas are for nerfherders. just say no to arenas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westlywillis Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Ok if no arenas what else is there? war zones over and over? how will that not get old?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swaggz Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Thanks for the common sense graph, of course classes which are buffed/nerfed will be played more/less. I don't care, and thats human nature. If this is your reasoning to not have arena in the game than I'm lost. Not at all. Arena's have always been based on FOTM classes and patch by patch nerfs and buffs. This has always made Arena's pretty much comp based and if the class you play just happened to get nerfed a patch then you were pretty much SoL when it comes to getting a high ranking. This is the main reason that I'm against top end gear Arena rewards that you can ONLY get from Arena's. There's way too much volitility when it comes to class make ups from patch to patch to really make Arena's purely skill based. Now, having an Arena system in place that does offer rewards that are non-gear based but can only be earned through Arena would probably be a compromise that most could live with. You still get your Arena system, but those who don't want to Arena and prefer Warzones won't be at a disadvantage when it comes to gear disparity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westlywillis Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Not at all. Arena's have always been based on FOTM classes and patch by patch nerfs and buffs. This has always made Arena's pretty much comp based and if the class you play just happened to get nerfed a patch then you were pretty much SoL when it comes to getting a high ranking. This is the main reason that I'm against top end gear Arena rewards that you can ONLY get from Arena's. There's way too much volitility when it comes to class make ups from patch to patch to really make Arena's purely skill based. Now, having an Arena system in place that does offer rewards that are non-gear based but can only be earned through Arena would probably be a compromise that most could live with. You still get your Arena system, but those who don't want to Arena and prefer Warzones won't be at a disadvantage when it comes to gear disparity. I respect your post, but basically are you saying everyone should have equal gear based on who can grind more in illum or in war zones? Are you saying there should be NO rank based system to reward people who are better than others? And handing our RP pets and 'outfits' is a terrible idea IMO. I dont play this game to play Barbie with my char. i play to get better gear and to advance my char. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ursuul Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I respect your post, but basically are you saying everyone should have equal gear based on who can grind more in illum or in war zones? Are you saying there should be NO rank based system to reward people who are better than others? And handing our RP pets and 'outfits' is a terrible idea IMO. I dont play this game to play Barbie with my char. i play to get better gear and to advance my char. i think he's saying he never wants to lose a fight and say to himself "i wonder who would have won if his gear didnt have a noticeable stat advantage", again though im just worried about the worst case scenario where people get tired of losing due to gear disparity and just quite the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swaggz Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I respect your post, but basically are you saying everyone should have equal gear based on who can grind more in illum or in war zones? Are you saying there should be NO rank based system to reward people who are better than others? And handing our RP pets and 'outfits' is a terrible idea IMO. I dont play this game to play Barbie with my char. i play to get better gear and to advance my char. Thats fine and so did most, but rated Arena's as the ONLY way to go about this isn't the answer for it, especially with how comp's matter more patch to patch than anything else. Yes, in WoW you had a better chance by being able to respec from one FOTM build to the next within your class, but with 2 AC's per class, you'd pigeon hole a good majority of players who can't switch from one AC to the next. The easiest way to implement Arena play would be how I, and others stated above. There's just way too many variables in game right now to make it more fair/skill based than FOTM based. Implementing Arena's with non-gear rated rewards always opens up the door to adding gear based rewards at a later date when other aspects of the game have been ironed out, ie dual specs, AC respecing, better balance between DPS classes, etc. Compromise is always better than nothing in the end.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctournys Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png http://mmodata.net/ 11 milions people playing a game with high-end pvp based on arenas. We love arenas. You dont like them? Dont play, but we are a lot of people that enjoy them, so please, enough. and yet only about 250,000 of them PvP above the 1700 rating bracket. I trust you have a point, other than reinforcing the fact that people who care about competitive deathmatch (or any kind of competitive PvP, because ratings can now be gained through BGs) are a tiny minority of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaliem Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 http://hydramist.tv/movies/hydra5/ Comp matters yo, in the most broken bracket filled with as people have said, a lot of druid warrior(and druid variations in general), on the best battlegroup in Europe, in the top 10 for the entire season, priest warrior, what was the representation of that comp? anyone care to find it for me?. So whats his excuse for getting so high with such a unused comp? The reason there are so many of a particular comp is because the ease of it. Druid warrior and Druid anything really, could make more mistakes and turn around matches, but were not un-beatable. People just got on the bandwagon of "Fotm" pushing the statistics every season to silly numbers for particular comps, you'd still find druid warriors (again just using this as an example) far below 1500. and you'd still find special snowflake comps far above 2k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenthum Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 and yet only about 250,000 of them PvP above the 1700 rating bracket. So you're saying that attracting and keeping 250,000 people (that's 12%, at absolute minimum, of SWTOR's playerbase btw) is a bad thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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