Premades wipe the floor with pugs

[Idockdudes]

When people want to be competitive they will do what they can to give themselves the best chance to win. If you make no effort to be competitive, dont expect to compete with people that make an effort.

 

The idea that all premades are only formed by people who want things to be easy and farm pugs is false. It is very telling when someone tries to make that claim.

[imanujakku]

i dont know. i didnt pvp too much in WoW but i did play in a pretty hardcore pvp battleground premade from time to time and the general consensus was we didnt want to run into another premade because it cost too much time to get a win. unless the system is setup to reward more in the time it takes to slug it out with another skilled group versus facerolling PuGs people are going to choose facerolling PuGs.

[Warrgod]

I didn't see the whole thread so i could be missing a simple point here, but why are premades thinking they shouldn't be put against other premades? The only reason a premade group would want to fight a pug is for easy victory. Correct me if i am wrong here but don't premades exist to show there teamwork and skill? You are not really showing anything when you fight a pug. Everyone pays to play the same game; if i play in a premade i would want to be paired against other premades. If i solo or duo que i dont want to be paired against a premade.

 

Otherwise if you que as premade maybe you should take a nerf when paired against a pug. Driving players away from pvp because they stand no chance doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

 

When i played DAOC i used to play in a gank group, we rarely hit zergs, or just random pugs. We always set up fights on the island and hoped the other gank groups wouldnt jam us, so we could test our skill and tactics, group setups against them to see who was better, we didnt want to fight pugs that we could steamroll. Just seems like premades have changed and want it easy. Kinda sad that pvp has become about rolling ppl and not really earning your victories. Pvp used to be about the challenge and skill. I guess thats changed; players just want it easy now. There is no challenge or skill required to roll a pug.

[KakiroX]

I didn't see the whole thread so i could be missing a simple point here, but why are premades thinking they shouldn't be put against other premades? The only reason a premade group would want to fight a pug is for easy victory. Correct me if i am wrong here but don't premades exist to show there teamwork and skill? You are not really showing anything when you fight a pug. Everyone pays to play the same game; if i play in a premade i would want to be paired against other premades. If i solo or duo que i dont want to be paired against a premade.

 

Otherwise if you que as premade maybe you should take a nerf when paired against a pug. Driving players away from pvp because they stand no chance doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

 

When i played DAOC i used to play in a gank group, we rarely hit zergs, or just random pugs. We always set up fights on the island and hoped the other gank groups wouldnt jam us, so we could test our skill and tactics, group setups against them to see who was better, we didnt want to fight pugs that we could steamroll. Just seems like premades have changed and want it easy. Kinda sad that pvp has become about rolling ppl and not really earning your victories. Pvp used to be about the challenge and skill. I guess thats changed; players just want it easy now. There is no challenge or skill required to roll a pug.

 

Because premades will just solo sync que and still win, and it'll hurt casual guilds who just want to pvp together for fun, and make the ques for premades like an hour long. This has happened in rift, it is a bad idea. Seperate ques is bad. It wont fix anything and it'll make ques longer.

[bubblelol]

4 people isnt really a premade. i reguarly pvp with my brother and a m8, in your way of thinking i would not be able to do that unless i could find another 5 people and wait in a long queue.

It is a mmo you cannot discourage people playing alongside mates/guildees.

[Solantharius]

Probably my all time favorite experience from beta testing was when I got into a Voidstar with myself being a 50 Gunslinger and my team had a 27 Sage and everyone else on my team was 14 and under. We were up against a Nightwatch premade with 6+ 50's. What do you think happened in this match? Well we were on defense to start the match and we didn't let em plant a single bomb so they all ragequit and didn't even try to defend when it was our turn roflstomp.

 

Moral of the story? Premades don't mean autowin, if you have a decent team behind you that knows what to do, focusing on objectives not pure kill/dmg number padding, and listens.

 

I can easily see lots of Premades dominating the matches atm and for awhile. Lots of people played together in the Betas and continue to play together in live. These people have lots of pvp experience and are being put up a lot of people who are still learning their class mechanics let alone how to pvp to the fullest. Things will begin to balance out a bit as time goes on.

 

Either way the team that is more organized, coordinated, and works together the best will and should always win but this won't always necessarily be the premade even in a premade vs pug situation. Losing is a part of pvping, you cant win em all, and if you can't handle that you shouldnt be pvping.

[Scelerant]

To be honest I'd rather play premade vs premade, stomping pugs offers no challenge and therefore just isn't fun. The problem is that when you have premade vs pug its a guaranteed win (or should be) with near max commendations/valor, when you have premade vs premade its generally a hard win with less commendations/valor and longer queues. So its a matter of what Ayn Rand would describe as "rational self-interest" or as the rest of the world would describe it "greed".

 

If premades fight premades then the ones who want to use pug-rolling as a method for gearing up lose, however pugs gain. If Premades fight premades, then those who want a challenge win, however once again the premades who want to gear up quickly lose.

[KakiroX]

To be honest I'd rather play premade vs premade, stomping pugs offers no challenge and therefore just isn't fun. The problem is that when you have premade vs pug its a guaranteed win (or should be) with near max commendations/valor, when you have premade vs premade its generally a hard win with less commendations/valor and longer queues. So its a matter of what Ayn Rand would describe as "rational self-interest" or as the rest of the world would describe it "greed".

 

If premades fight premades then the ones who want to use pug-rolling as a method for gearing up lose, however pugs gain. If Premades fight premades, then those who want a challenge win, however once again the premades who want to gear up quickly lose.

 

Have fun with hour long ques

[Scelerant]

Have fun with hour long ques

 

I already said there are queue issues because of a limited amount of premades playing, if there were more premades the queues would be shorter, so instead of complaining get more people to queue as premade.

[Solantharius]

Actually the other thing to note is the faster you win a match the less comms and all you get. Medals = comms and the quicker you roflstomp through a match the less medals you have time to build up. Just like when a match ends early due to not enough players, even if your team wins you don't get crap for comms and such cause you have no or only a few medals.

[Bastgar]

To be clear it is not that Premades=Win, it is that Gear+skill+teamwork+luck=Win.

 

Premades more often than not have great gear, decent skill and team works so more often than not they equal win.

 

When you go into a pug the only thing only thing you ca count on is your own skil gear ect not your teammates. But you can foster teamwork.

 

As an aside yelling your doing it wrong in WZs chat is not fostering teamwork

[BlaadG]

This just in: Organized groups are more effective than PUGs in a MMO. More news at 11.

 

some people dont have the time to find 5+ players to pvp with...

 

Some people shouldn't expect random PUG wining vs properly geared, decently balanced and well organized 8 man group.

 

Get better and organize yourself or stop whining and embrace the suck. Damn spoiled brats everywhere...

Edited December 15, 2011 by BlaadG

[morganlion]

Dont hide behind premades will turn ppl away from pvp cuz some of you want premade vrs premade. The game just came out and a handful of ppl are crying. How bout they dont change anything but focus on two things fixing bugs and writting stories. I highly doubt ppl will have to wait for ques. The system in place allows lower levels in with higher levels and balances it all out. You know what makes ppl wait? Brackets thats what they dont have that so there is no problem.

And to comment on beta and warzones yea I could honestly see that ppl were playing the game and not maxing out on just one toon but trying stuff and rerolling. So sorry if you couldn't get your warzone in full effect.

[Djabelek]

KInd iof makes me laugh I was in beta and found no problems with pugs won 4 out of 5 times. So go figure don;t think its the group its actually the Player themselves and how they use there skills and realize there is a pass the ball button, or someone needs a heal.

So go figure.

[Twor]

To be honest I'd rather play premade vs premade, stomping pugs offers no challenge and therefore just isn't fun.

 

Quoted for truth.

The people pointing out things like "make your own pre and roll PUGs", are usually of the kind that just wants to win as easily as possible (90% of this thread).

 

They also don't realize that the selfstyled "Hardcore PvPlers" are only a small amount of the crowd and in no way influential enough that the vast crowd, the casual players who have an hour an evening that they won't spend on setting a group up to PvP, pay for this game.

Or why do you think the two biggest, most easily comparable MMOs to swtor (wow and rift) both seperate premades and PuGs.

 

Real PvPer play for the challenge and for competition. You will never get any kind of challenge or become a better PvPler if you stomp pugs with your pre. Or taken serious if you call other people kiddies

[stevesetoe]

Just leave it as it is. Even if people lose, they gain something.

 

Rift tried to do something about it and all they did was create endless queues for people who were in premades.

 

As soon as you were in a group with even 1 other person, your queue time extended significantly.

 

Just don't touch this and enjoy it for what it is.

 

I'd rather play a lot of it and lose than having to wait forever to play one game.

[Bastgar]

I'd rather queue up and lose 3 times as a player than sit for an hour in a queue. Brackets and premades will legthen queue times. I was glad to hear there were no brackets because it meant i would spend more time pvping.

[Desgarden]

Why should premades be put against premades? If you're too lazy to sit down and organise a premade in your faction, tough luck. That's your own fault.

 

If you want it like WoW, go play WoW.

 

That's pretty narrow-minded in my book. First of all rbgs can be fun (I enjoy it to meet now and then a funny person who you had never met if not for that pvp match) without being too serious about being competetive.

Secondly I also want to jump in and have FUN witouth having to organize anything - especially when I do not have much time due to rl work, and of course, if I am keen on organising anything I can go to work and get paid for it.

 

However, I doubt that quite a few people on these boards don't understand either the concept of rl work/obligations nor doing something for the fun of it for various reasons.

[Garrix]

It sucks being rolled by premades. I dealt with that in WoW for long time. However, try LFGing for a PUG on your side. I know its not as simple as posting a LFG message and BAM 3 seconds later you invited to one. Yet, keep trying. Even those that die get some reward, just have to learn that in any competitive game losing and maybe a losing streak, is a reality for anyone and everyone. Edited December 15, 2011 by Garrix

[OGSOBCimmerean]

Premade?

[gumbology]

Premade?

 

Premade, Bro?

[OGSOBCimmerean]

Premade, Bro?

 

Bro, Premade?

[Derstood]

Pre, bro? Made!

[Scelerant]

It sucks being rolled by premades. I dealt with that in WoW for long time. However, try LFGing for a PUG on your side. I know its not as simple as posting a LFG message and BAM 3 seconds later you invited to one. Yet, keep trying. Even those that die get some reward, just have to learn that in any competitive game losing and maybe a losing streak, is a reality for anyone and everyone.

 

As a former Rank 13, I spent pretty much every day for about 6 months rolling pugs in an epic geared marshal group and if you are put up against the equivalent of our group as a pug you're pretty much sol.

 

We'd have everyone on vent, we'd have tactics decided beforehand, we'd have the correct assortment of classes, everyone would have "the" pvp spec for their class, everyone had great gear, everyone made sure to get various world buffs and so on.

 

If you do premades correctly, your odds of losing should be pretty much non existent unless you come up against an equivalent premade.

[Ajeee]

This was already disturbing to me during the beta weekends, yet I had the faint hope it would be different on live. Wrong.

During the beta weekends I actually played in a premade and it seized to be fun pretty quickly, as we won everything.

Nobody was even trying (logically) as they saw we were a premade. And I don't blame them!

Winning Huttball 5-0 or 6-0 everytime, Alderaan while never losing a turret and Voidstar feels more like a raid

Let's say that after a few hours I was dying for some challenge so I stopped PvPing completely.

 

So now I'm in Early Access, my friends aren't in or don't have the time to play yet.

I go into Warzones and poof a premades against pugs, guess who won and by how much.

 

TL;DR Come on BioWare, you can't put premades vs. pugs, it will drive everyone without a premade away from PvP. And it will die FAST!

 

Exactly how it was intended to be. Like people already have said thats the whole reason of premades isn't it? Pugs are unorganized randoms and you are not expected to win versus a organized team.

 

Now I would love to see the function of premades vs. premades though, along with statistics and rankings.