BH merc Lack to toolset to be competitive in PVP

[Angelesis]

Right now many of you are probably saying well i top damage and kills in WZ's.

 

Let me tell you this right now. Once ranked play comes around you will some major balance issues.

 

1. No interrupt.

 

2. No knockdown. Stun is inferior to knockdown due to animation time of opponent getting up

 

3. No kiting ability.

 

4. no root.

 

5. no distance opener due to melee charge/vanish mechanics.

 

6. No consistent damage reduction. AKA, SORC shields, OP evade/absorb/hunker down/ ect..

 

7. No Hots

 

8. No mobility to catch fleeing enemies.

 

Welcome to Ret paladin 2.0

Edited January 20, 2012 by Angelesis

[KeltonDavis]

I agree with this, sick of having literally no ability to cc in pvp and no way to prevent enemies from escaping every time.. at least give us a sprint or a boost

[xCad]

Sadly but I have to agree...

[XumosGT]

Considering I have played many different pvp mmo's, bounty hunters as of right now are in a really bad state. Almost every other classes has a complete or near complete pvp toolbox. BH's don't have anything even remotely close to being satisfactory in pvp. Once everyone hits 50 and is geared, there is going to be a glaring discrepancy between bounty hunters and other classes.

 

Having damage, and no tools isn't going to save our bacon. In fact, I expect the forums to be filled with angry BH's once they figure out there class is at a major disadvantage in pvp.

[ZNICK]

Angry Mercs... speak for yourself. Powertechs are lovin' it.

 

Z

[XumosGT]

Heh. I have already rerolled.

 

They will probably address all these issues eventually, and when they do I will jump back on my merc. It's early in the game and I can afford to play with different classes. I just don't have much time for this class and it's idiosyncrasies. In my opinion it doesn't support my playstyle as a pvp healer with it's few and far between cooldowns and utility.

[Callin]

i gotta agree with this.

[Bastionhawk]

Angry Mercs... speak for yourself. Powertechs are lovin' it.

 

Z

 

That is why the title says "BH merc..." so... thanks I guess?

 

I agree with everything mentioned.

[Jaysun]

welcome to beta-4 builds ago..

 

no one listens though..

[MrAronax]

You cannot be serious...

 

1: too bad, but on the other hand you are immune to those for 12 sec...

 

2: don't make me laugh, this kind of whine is beyond ridiculous, there are 3 classes with knockdown and 1 has to spec into it, other has it bound on knock-back

 

3: 2 knock-backs: check

 

4: 2 knock-backs: check.

 

5: have no idea what you wanted to say with this one (tracer missile spam is worse then any kind of opener, biggest armor reduction on stance + buff from spamming...)

 

6: heavy armor: check. by far best tanking in-game: check. by far best consistent damage reduction skills: check.

 

7: great healing without any resource problems or restrictions (wave to scoundrel healer), immunity to interrupt 12 sec.. FIXED % damage reduction protections on target

 

8: what fleeing enemies? you hit people for 4k spammable crits, not like someone will flee without vanish

 

In order to see how much survivability you actually have in PVP, please roll a tank.

You will notice that their SHIELDS unlike your impossibly OP permanent damage reduction skills have chance (20%) to lower damage taken by 20% (works only on WHITE DAMAGE, so doesn't trigger on 80% of skills in game). That is average 4% damage reduction (0.2*0.2=0.04 just in case!). 1 skill that gives 40% damage reduction for 10 sec has 3 minute CD (and needs 11 points in tanking tree). You on the other hand have so many stacking damage reduction skills and buffs.. no further comment please.

 

Good you rerolled, one less tracer missile spammer.

[Diaboyos]

+1 op.

[Jeditactics]

I agree with the OP.

 

Now that I have leveled up to 50 and am competeting in warzones I noticed how much the BH are lacking compared to other classes.

 

Just spamming tracer doesn't make us nearly as powerful as other classes. As they have the same burst as we do and mobility, and survivability, distance closers, escapes. Seems like all the utility skills we're overlooked in our class.

 

I'm very glad to finally see some other Merc's are noticing this and speaking up about. BW needs to know that we're not happy.

[diogolp]

We are fine in group pvp. We probably have the best survivability of all healers in pvp, and as dps we have great burst.

 

We are terrible for 1 on 1 against anyone else, though. I think it comes with the territory.

[Enkaizu]

You cannot be serious...

 

1: too bad, but on the other hand you are immune to those for 12 sec...

 

2: don't make me laugh, this kind of whine is beyond ridiculous, there are 3 classes with knockdown and 1 has to spec into it, other has it bound on knock-back

 

3: 2 knock-backs: check

 

4: 2 knock-backs: check.

 

5: have no idea what you wanted to say with this one (tracer missile spam is worse then any kind of opener, biggest armor reduction on stance + buff from spamming...)

 

6: heavy armor: check. by far best tanking in-game: check. by far best consistent damage reduction skills: check.

 

7: great healing without any resource problems or restrictions (wave to scoundrel healer), immunity to interrupt 12 sec.. FIXED % damage reduction protections on target

 

8: what fleeing enemies? you hit people for 4k spammable crits, not like someone will flee without vanish

 

In order to see how much survivability you actually have in PVP, please roll a tank.

You will notice that their SHIELDS unlike your impossibly OP permanent damage reduction skills have chance (20%) to lower damage taken by 20% (works only on WHITE DAMAGE, so doesn't trigger on 80% of skills in game). That is average 4% damage reduction (0.2*0.2=0.04 just in case!). 1 skill that gives 40% damage reduction for 10 sec has 3 minute CD (and needs 11 points in tanking tree). You on the other hand have so many stacking damage reduction skills and buffs.. no further comment please.

 

Good you rerolled, one less tracer missile spammer.

 

1: Only as Bodyguard spec

 

2: I'll agree there

 

3: Only as Arsenal

 

4: See 3

 

5: Meh, I'm fine with the rotation.

 

6: This is the merc forums, we don't tank. Consistent damage reduction? If you mean the talent in arsenal, I can agree with that, but only as Arsenal.

 

7: Our resource is pretty good but I wouldn't say 'any' resource problems or else we'd be god mode. Again the immunity is only Bodyguard.

 

8: Tracer Missile, at least for me in champ gear, never crits over 3k without a pvp buff plus relic and usually barely over it. As arsenal we have no immunity to interrupt and having tracer blocked is huge. Assassins/Shadows have no problem getting away or CC'ing to death and lol trying to fight Sage/Sorc.

 

It seems like you think we have all our specs at the same time or something. If we had 12s immunity to interrupt + tracer missile spams of 4k+ each missile plus "the best tanking in the game" yeah, we'd be pretty much the most OP class in the game.

 

But we're not. Don't over-exaggerate Merc. Get in their face, interrupt tracer, stun them, put a slow on them and you'll have some easy valor.

 

Don't get me wrong though, I don't feel like we're that underpowered either, the biggest thing we need though is a reliable snare (not jet boost). Even as pyro it's a chance on hit snare which is just RNG.

[IronmanBG]

I'm a Merc on Arsenal 50 lvl and this sucks on 1 vs 1 PVP...

 

Also without interrupt there is no way to kill any Champion who cast without support from another player.

 

This is why I think to start from the beginning with another hero....

Edited January 21, 2012 by IronmanBG

[PianoTie]

Some classes shine solo(like Operative) and some shine in groups(like Merc). If u can't handle that, well

[Gadrak]

i agree almost on everything

 

but no knockback ***?

 

anyway there is a alredy a topic of 200 threads about merc survivability on pvp,go and post there,maybe the mods will notice it

[ArchonGamer]

Some classes shine solo(like Operative) and some shine in groups(like Merc). If u can't handle that, well

 

Tell that to the heal spec operative. It you spec a Merc right you can do fine 1 on 1 PvP, You win some you lose some. Most people want to win them all and that is not balanced. Merc are hybrid healers no matter how you spec them, they are group friendly if you wanted to be solo then you should have made an Operative or Assassin.

 

The only thing I agree on is Quell should be a BH ability not just a power tech ability.

[PianoTie]

I agree that Merc should have Interrupt. Why did Sorc get it all?

[MikaelCor]

While I am only 38th, I have been trying to PvP quite a bit lately (so far only Valor 23). I find that while I am rarely the top kill/damage player, I am usually in the top 2-3. I hate being ganked by Operatives, but that is part of the game. I turn the tables on them maybe 1 in 4. Our CC is very limited, but creative use of our knockback helps. There are definitely times I walk away for a few mins to calm after getting stunlock killed a few too many times.

 

On the other hand I can roll out the AoE enought to prevent bombs/turret controls quite well. I take pride in being able to keep 4 people from planting/disarming a bomb for over a minute using AoE and LoS to stay alive and delay. I definitely find I enjoy helping my team meet the objectives of the warzone, even if it is by just smearing the ballcarrier, knocking a enemy back into the fire, or dropping a heal on an injured player when I have a sec. I guess it depends on what you call competitive. That may all change when I get to 50, but I guess I will have to wait til then.

 

If nothing else, just wait a month or so. They are going to be doing lots of class adjustments for a while I am sure.

[Kutalion]

You cannot be serious...

 

1: too bad, but on the other hand you are immune to those for 12 sec...

 

2: don't make me laugh, this kind of whine is beyond ridiculous, there are 3 classes with knockdown and 1 has to spec into it, other has it bound on knock-back

 

3: 2 knock-backs: check

 

4: 2 knock-backs: check.

 

5: have no idea what you wanted to say with this one (tracer missile spam is worse then any kind of opener, biggest armor reduction on stance + buff from spamming...)

 

6: heavy armor: check. by far best tanking in-game: check. by far best consistent damage reduction skills: check.

 

7: great healing without any resource problems or restrictions (wave to scoundrel healer), immunity to interrupt 12 sec.. FIXED % damage reduction protections on target

 

8: what fleeing enemies? you hit people for 4k spammable crits, not like someone will flee without vanish

 

In order to see how much survivability you actually have in PVP, please roll a tank.

You will notice that their SHIELDS unlike your impossibly OP permanent damage reduction skills have chance (20%) to lower damage taken by 20% (works only on WHITE DAMAGE, so doesn't trigger on 80% of skills in game). That is average 4% damage reduction (0.2*0.2=0.04 just in case!). 1 skill that gives 40% damage reduction for 10 sec has 3 minute CD (and needs 11 points in tanking tree). You on the other hand have so many stacking damage reduction skills and buffs.. no further comment please.

 

Good you rerolled, one less tracer missile spammer.

 

Total agreement with everything you said basically.

 

Merc/Commando are the tanks of PVP. Damage reduction skills we possess are by far superior to those of powertech or Jugger and their respective counterclass.

 

THe CC we have gives us more survivability then any other class, while we have the biggest sustanined dmg output, and possibly 2nd or 3rd best burst all while wearing heavy armor and having range on our opponents.

 

Lets not forget we also have incredibly good AoE skills and armor reductions.

 

PLease, l2p or reroll a sorc/sage and faceroll over force lightning.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Paralassa
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[Aedn]

mercs pretty much have the ability to spec to do most of the things on your list. we just cant do all of them at the same time. however mercs have a HOT, its just a reverse hot, we have mobility but only in pyro spec with 31 points invested. mercs can kite well, but only in pyro. we have better consitent damage reduction then most classes in pvp, it just requires TM/PS spam to keep it up.

 

The only really valid issues are the fact that mercs lack an escape, and have no interupt in the baseline skills.

 

Now i agree mercs really should get an interupt, and we really need to have our level 46 skill fixed or replaced so that its viable,not completely useless as it is now. However, mercs & commandos excel in groups as it is now, if they had access to everything you want, they would be broken.

 

Don't worry though, im sure you can roll a sage or sorc and get what you want. Just expect the nerf bat to hit them as you get to 50.

[Zalophus]

Total agreement with everything you said basically.

 

Merc/Commando are the tanks of PVP. Damage reduction skills we possess are by far superior to those of powertech or Jugger and their respective counterclass.

 

THe CC we have gives us more survivability then any other class, while we have the biggest sustanined dmg output, and possibly 2nd or 3rd best burst all while wearing heavy armor and having range on our opponents.

 

Lets not forget we also have incredibly good AoE skills and armor reductions.

 

PLease, l2p or reroll a sorc/sage and faceroll over force lightning.

 

 

As someone with a level 50 PT and in the process of leveling a merc (level 36 atm), I have to call BS on the whole defensive argument here. You are taking merc's 10% dmg reduction and comparing it to something that can EASILY be brought up to well over 50% dmg reduction. Not only that, but if you make a PvP spec with the shield tree in PT you get major damage reductions across the board (shield is a fine spec to PvP with as well, in fact that is what I PvP with and I only ever lose 1 on 1 to tank sins in equal/better gear than my own).

 

Say what you will about the rest of merc, but saying it has more defenses than PT is a flat out lie. I would wager to guess the same can be said for the other tanking classes as well.

 

Edit: For the record I agree that if anything, we need a interrupt. If not just for PvP, but for PvE as well. It would have to also be a ranged interrupt like snipers rather than just making Quell available to both AC's.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Paralassa
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[Mrs_Murder]

Agree on everything except #2. Pyro has plenty of kiting abilities.

 

But we desperately need more PVP toys. Definitely.

[DanielYavi]

As someone with a level 50 PT and in the process of leveling a merc (level 36 atm), I have to call BS on the whole defensive argument here. You are taking merc's 10% dmg reduction and comparing it to something that can EASILY be brought up to well over 50% dmg reduction. Not only that, but if you make a PvP spec with the shield tree in PT you get major damage reductions across the board (shield is a fine spec to PvP with as well, in fact that is what I PvP with and I only ever lose 1 on 1 to tank sins in equal/better gear than my own).

 

Say what you will about the rest of merc, but saying it has more defenses than PT is a flat out lie. I would wager to guess the same can be said for the other tanking classes as well.

 

Edit: For the record I agree that if anything, we need a interrupt. If not just for PvP, but for PvE as well. It would have to also be a ranged interrupt like snipers rather than just making Quell available to both AC's.

 

While playing my Vanguard with champ gear i get get about 52% damage reduction with every of my abilities focused on armor/reduction through skill trees.The Shield is possibly the most useless thing i have ever seen by far since it only has a CHANCE (32%-40%) to absorb a certain percentage(30%-50ish%) of incoming WHITE damage leaving the rest Yellow damage(~80% of abilities) completely untouched.

 

The only way to increase this more is by activating reactive shield to up dd reduction by 25% but thats also what what a merc/commando has.

 

A champ geared commando/merc in dps spec has about 30ish% dmg red via armor.Suppose he is dps specced he gets through tracer/grav spam 10% more on top of it = 40% (the Tank has a 12% advantage)

Now there are some vary nasty hybrid healing/dps builds for merc/commando out there that can get you both the 10% from tracer/grav + the 4% fixed from having support cell and every once in a while with about a 10s downtime another 10% via kolto bomb and supercharged gas.

That results in a net worth of ~54% damage reduction (compare to tank above).Oh and just for fun imagine a group situation where someone decides to put his guard on this hybrid specced merc/commando healer.

 

Everything i said here does not account armor reduction abilites which benefit the class with the flat damage reductions way more then the ones tanking through armor.