I feel that concealment operatives need a re-balance.

[Dreadspectre]

I laugh when people say it's different at 50. Everyone has expertise, it's a wash. I do 10% more damage and take 10% less, oh, whats this? The Op/Smugg has 10% as well? Back to square one.

 

My Jugg, in Soresu stance with 47% mitigation, will have his hp drop in CHUNKS from the opener of an Op/Smugg. Basing all "survival tactics" to beat them on a 2 MIN COOLDOWN is ridiculous and means that something is broken.

 

Thankfully the devs realized this and you guys are getting gutted in 1.1. I think it might actually be a little too much but time will tell.

[Forkrul]

If they are killing you in 3 seconds flat (the length of that knockdown, which, to answer your earlier question, is attached to the opener via talents) there is something VERY wrong, because that damage is just INSANE. Is this happening to you consistently?

 

It's more than 3s, though. It takes an extra second to get up again before you can attack. But yes, they can. I've been hit for 6,7k in 400 expertise then 3,5k and one more hit + the dot ticks. That's easily 15k damage (I have 14700) before I can get up and get a single attack in.

 

But it's all cool now, Hidden Strike/Scoundrel equivalent is getting a 20% dmg nerf on Tuesday.

[heguo]

I play a Scoundrel, I'm level 50, getting close to Valor 40. I expected an adjustment. I have no idea how badly 20% will hurt me, but I'll play on.

 

They can't nerf what makes people really angry about Scoundrels/Operatives. The good ones only fight people they're pretty sure they can beat. When I'm in a warzone, I watch the main fight happening off to the side where I won't get made by a random AOE. I wait for the guy who's wrecking our team to get down to low health and retreat for heals, and I walk over and finish him off before his healers can save him.

 

If I'm alone, looking to ninja a flag, or a door, and I see a BH sitting on 22k health, I don't even bother unstealthing, I just go look for some other place where I can make a better contribution. I will always pick unfair fights. The ability to decide when I fight and when I don't is the strongest ability Scoundrels have and there's no way to remove it without just removing the entire class.

 

Watch the forums. Even after the patch drops, there will still be people coming here, claiming that they get mowed down by a Scoundrel/Operative before they can react. They're the players that for some reason or another look like appealing targets. They won't be getting trucked because the classes are unbalanced. They'll be getting trucked because they have zero expertise. The QQ is never going to go away no matter how much they nerf the spike damage of Scoundrels/Ops because they can still pick who they fight.

[belialle]

 

They can't nerf what makes people really angry about Scoundrels/Operatives. The good ones only fight people they're pretty sure they can beat.

 

 

Yes. People will cry about operatives until this game is no more. People always cry about stealth burst classes. Always have, always will.

[qIrwuMfh]

I currently play a Imperial operative under the concealment spec. I have many times played through a warzone with the feeling that everyone around me is furious, not simply by my skill, but because of my class.

 

I'm not going to be modest, I'm a experienced PvP player of many MMO's, and that skill I believe has translated well into SWTOR. Despite this, when playing in Warzones (and indeed, in world PvP) I cannot feel that my success is less to do with professional play, than the simply over-sharp glass cannon that I play. There have been instances where I have killed players before they get out of a stun lock. There have been instances where I have one shot players at half health. A while back, I and a PvP un-experienced random BH took down a Jedi Sage and Guardian in world PvP, who were both 5-6 levels above us, three times. Yesterday I took down a team of the same composition (same classes, different players), solo; in less than 12 seconds.

 

I cannot help but conclude, that despite the intended nature of this spec, it grants a heavy advantage against any other class, and by comparison to other classes; is simply to easy to play.

 

So I did research, I asked guild members, perused the forums, compared damage outputs, dueled with other PvP players. The results supported my conclusion. I understand the concept that this spec is intended to do massive (and often inconsistent) burst damage, but that mechanic has been presented in such a way that has given an unfair advantage to those that play it.

 

Humbly, I suggest that the burst damage output of the Concealment and Scrapper tree specialisations are reduced, and perhaps something small is added elsewhere to allow it to continue to be a viable class.

 

PS: I wasn't sure if this was more appropriate for the "PvP" or "Suggestion Box" forum section. If I have placed it wrongly, I ask that an administrator be kind enough to move the topic, or inform me to re-post in the other section.

 

Written nicely, but riddled with fallacious arguments of diffrent kinds suggesting that you have valid and 'scientific' proof. Take your mind**** and shove it up your ***.

 

A good Jedi-Sage or Sorc will laugh at you. Additionaly it also depends how the prequesite for a fight was. Shields? Buffs? Prepared? Non-Prepared? etc.

 

I have a sage and an operative, both with champion (op is missing champ blaster) and sorc/sage is just a lolz-class with which i can pretty much lolz every operative, no matter how skilled (chances are good that i survive the knock down, followed up by backstab/shiv or whatever - if i do, the op is dead).

 

Nuking randoms or people you know with your class and therefore assuming that its OP is one of the most idiotic fallacies i've ever encountered!

 

"So I did research, I asked guild members, perused the forums, compared damage outputs, dueled with other PvP players. The results supported my conclusion. I understand the concept that this spec is intended to do massive (and often inconsistent) burst damage, but that mechanic has been presented in such a way that has given an unfair advantage to those that play it."

 

Proof. Give me numbers, models of validation, graphs and not just vague statements or assumptions. Otherwise you can go and accompain the other bunch of the self proclaimed scientists here.

Edited January 21, 2012 by qIrwuMfh

[CaptainInsano]

To the OP: I think you just play in PUGs honestly. Operatives are good at one thing and one thing only: ganking weak targets. The class has the worst utility in the game hands down. No knockback, no "gap closer," very squishy. In real group play with tanks and guarded healers, you will be marginalized and laughed at after your opener fails to drop someone bellow 80% health and they now have a full resolve bar. You will then dish out relatively weak hits until you run out of energy and/or get knocked off the target and snared/rooted with no way to get back on (you get one shot with vanish on a 2min CD IF you don't get knocked out of stealth). Don't even get me started on the limitations the class has in Huttball. Concealment will be dead at high level play until they get similar group utility to all the other classes. Burst is the only thing Operatives bring atm and they don't even do it the best (that would be Marauders). Edited January 21, 2012 by CaptainInsano

[Diomades]

To the OP: I think you just play in PUGs honestly. Operatives are good at one thing and one thing only: ganking weak targets. The class has the worst utility in the game hands down. No knockback, no "gap closer," very squishy. In real group play with tanks and guarded healers, you will be marginalized and laughed at after your opener fails to drop someone bellow 80% health and they now have a full resolve bar. You will then dish out relatively weak hits until you run out of energy and/or get knocked off the target and snared/rooted with no way to get back on (you get one shot with vanish on a 2min CD IF you don't get knocked out of stealth). Don't even get me started on the limitations the class has in Huttball. Concealment will be dead at high level play until they get similar group utility to all the other classes. Burst is the only thing Operatives bring atm and they don't even do it the best (that would be Marauders).

 

Pretty much this.

[Wrakk]

Please nerf operatives. I'm a whiner, but with a good reason.

[Sinemetu]

I'm not really a doom and gloom type person, but the patch notes kinda blew my mind. Hidden Strike only lasts half as long, damage on HS gets a nerf, and armor pen gets a nerf (that's an across-the-board nerf to all an operative's damage, not just the opener). Emasculate the spec, much, Bioware? Throw them a bone. I'm not sure even the most ardent operative haters wanted that much of a nerf.