Haristo Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) I remeber not getting a shiny medal everything i did but now thats unacceptable for the pathetic players now I remember these good ol' Days... this medal system kills strategy for the sake of farming however I do not really remember a single day where Arenas were popular... Edited January 21, 2012 by Haristo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junebugs Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I remember these good ol' Days... this medal system kills strategy for the sake of farming however I do not really remember a single day where Arenas were popular... They are only popular now because world PvP is done... Cause nobody supports it because they dont get something nice for it so for me arena is the closest thing to world PvP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrandis Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 It's not just "less" gear dependent. I can tell you this from personal experience, everyone DOES have the same gear past 2500 ratings on WoW. The reason being because the arena point gain starts to DR after 2200~. The only difficult thing as an entry level player is reaching that 2200~ rating. But that's the fun about it. After sitting on gladiator for 5 seasons, I've looked back upon how much fun it was to aim for 2200 my first time and how glorious it was in order to reach it. Even after I reached that, there was ongoing progression to be had after 2200 which is why I loved arena so much. There was always someone better and always higher ratings to strive for. But not every one starts at 2500 rating is my point. You need to encourage more people to play and enter, and not start with a gear gap disadvantage. Removing expertise and just using bolster would make it competitive from Low to High. That makes it strictly Comp and Skill dependent from Entry to #1 Team. I'm saying you want to encourage more people to not jump ship because they have a disadvantage from the get go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalindran Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 But if it was kill dependent, instead of objective, even I would be riding the nerf to train for scoundrels(my own class mind you). If would take quite a bit of re-balancing of the classes to make it competitive in a strictly killing matter. While it's admirable you would opt to nerf your own class, to be honest I don't understand what all the beef is about Scoundrels and Op's. In the month I have been playing this game I very rarely see them at the tops of the charts. I admit they can be a pain to spar with at first, but once you learn what to do against them, they are really no different than any other class. Yeah I hate being knocked down or kicked in the crotch as much as the next person, but I don't see them as over powered. Of course I don't see Sorcs as overpowered either, and I don't play either of those classes. To be honest the only thing that ever really bothered me about some of the stealth classes in this game is the apparent ability to "vanish" while a dot is still ticking on the player. Damage is damage and I don't think you should be able to vanish when you have been set on fire. If this isn't actually the case by all means feel free to correct me. Have fun ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandoichi Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Gear can carry you in WoW dont try to say it wont but really it sounds like that guy is just QQing if you put effort into getting the gear than screw what anyone thinks IMO not going to farm for gear to not use it cause i have an "advantage" I literally was disgusted at seeing someone as terrible as him being a top ranked pvper, and getting compliments on his stream about how pro he is. Noobs see battlemaster with a premade healer keeping him alive and think OMG THIS GUY IS SUPER PRO, THIS IS THE PINNACLE OF MARAUDER PVP, when in reality a lvl 30 could beat him 1v1, probably even with his gear advantage. He also had his friends make fake accounts on reddit and post about his stream saying stuff like "omg whered this guy come from hes so pro" Sorry but that is a prime example of pathetic. Obviously you are going to use the gear you farmed for, however it should be to show accomplishment, how hard you worked...not give you some stupid stat boost. PvP is about balance, not grinding to get stat boosts. The title Battlemaster in this game supports the same amount of skill required to get the "Black Bisector" title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gohr- Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 It's not just "less" gear dependent. I can tell you this from personal experience, everyone DOES have the same gear past 2500 ratings on WoW. The reason being because the arena point gain starts to DR after 2200~. The only difficult thing as an entry level player is reaching that 2200~ rating. But that's the fun about it. After sitting on gladiator for 5 seasons, I've looked back upon how much fun it was to aim for 2200 my first time and how glorious it was in order to reach it. Even after I reached that, there was ongoing progression to be had after 2200 which is why I loved arena so much. There was always someone better and always higher ratings to strive for. I also did my share in the 2200+ compartment but when the initial flash is over it just get utterly boring - at least that´s my opinion. You basically always fight the same enemies (exaggerated) since some combos are much more viable than others. Of course there are the few odd groups competing and it´s fun to fight them, but in the end it´s really, really repetitive. I actually like the 8v8 WZs much more because they´re still small enough (playerwise) to allow for individuality but they are large enough to require some team coordination. It isn´t over that fast, too, because you can still have your comeback if u fight really hard. Also the Zones allow for - let´s say funny moments - like being dumped down the bridge or caught in fire/acid. It´s no real tactic but fun sometimes. I understand that some people like the Arena concept but imo it´s just too hard to balance each and every class so that you don´t have your 'typical' combos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzrknight Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Arena gets you over 9000 complains / sec about unbalance. True story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junebugs Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I literally was disgusted at seeing someone as terrible as him being a top ranked pvper, and getting compliments on his stream about how pro he is. Noobs see battlemaster with a premade healer keeping him alive and think OMG THIS GUY IS SUPER PRO, THIS IS THE PINNACLE OF MARAUDER PVP, when in reality a lvl 30 could beat him 1v1, probably even with his gear advantage. He also had his friends make fake accounts on reddit and post about his stream saying stuff like "omg whered this guy come from hes so pro" Sorry but that is a prime example of pathetic. Obviously you are going to use the gear you farmed for, however it should be to show accomplishment, how hard you worked...not give you some stupid stat boost. PvP is about balance, not grinding to get stat boosts. The title Battlemaster in this game supports the same amount of skill required to get the "Black Bisector" title. Im not bashing you but this should be expected from todays MMO community it comes down to who puts the most effort in now only thing to do is accept it and move on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luminant Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 But not every one starts at 2500 rating is my point. You need to encourage more people to play and enter, and not start with a gear gap disadvantage. Removing expertise and just using bolster would make it competitive from Low to High. That makes it strictly Comp and Skill dependent from Entry to #1 Team. I'm saying you want to encourage more people to not jump ship because they have a disadvantage from the get go. I understand where your going but, I didn't start out 2500 rating, in a game like this the PvP system would require the whole Guild Wars 2 revamp entirely and it would just end up being a watered down Guild Wars 2. The arena system from WoW already exists and it's success only relies on the current class balance of the game. The dev's need to take a brave step forward and just implement it and simply accept that the first season of arena will not be balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blumps Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Sorry but if you bring in arenas, PvP everywhere else will turn into nothing more then a "levelling zone" for gear. Once they get the gear they need you won't see them ever again. It WOULD ruin it. Look at WoW. BGs are nothing more the 90% botters whose only purpose is to farm gear so they don't have to BG anymore. I am however in favor of rated BGs, to keep the playing field even. This way you can weed out the people who don't contribute and force them to play with the other people who don't. Finally, I'm sure they didn't design the classes around 2v2 and 3v3 and such. More-so along the lines of 8v8. I wish you could queue as an op group though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haeso Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 You bad players who think skill exists in a tab target 1.5 global cooldown game need to go play something with a real skill ceiling before you try and pretend you're good because you can compete at a level any serious gamer laughs at. Try an FPS, RTS or fighting game and see how 'good' you are. This game is easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalindran Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Raid specific stat? lol are you serious? Anyways i see what your saying but then if it were like that it would be to easy to obtain good gear from PvP that raiders worked their azz off for and then that would start some retarded QQ Yeah when was the last time you stacked "Hit" for pvp in WoW and whatever it's equivalent was in Rift? Those were both pve and thus raid specific stats. Granted I haven't pvp'd or raided in WoW since last February and I got bored of Rift back in September, so I might be calling them by the wrong names, but both games had one stat that was pve specific and one that was pvp specific. Both games required you to have two sets of gear. One for PvP because of the PvP stat, and one for PvE because raiding required something different. So in SwTor what is this PvE stat that requires a PvP stat in order to compensate and level the playing field? I am not aware of one. Based on what I am hearing in the forums RNG in pvp here is just like RNG was in PvE raiding elsewhere. What more do they really need if you feel that getting gear in pvp is too easy beyond RNG? Have fun ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junebugs Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Sorry but if you bring in arenas, PvP everywhere else will turn into nothing more then a "levelling zone" for gear. Once they get the gear they need you won't see them ever again. It WOULD ruin it. Look at WoW. BGs are nothing more the 90% botters whose only purpose is to farm gear so they don't have to BG anymore. I am however in favor of rated BGs, to keep the playing field even. This way you can weed out the people who don't contribute and force them to play with the other people who don't. Finally, I'm sure they didn't design the classes around 2v2 and 3v3 and such. More-so along the lines of 8v8. I wish you could queue as an op group though This has already happened man people are leveling their alts off AFKing in warzones have you even been playing the game? And world PvP LOL everything is simply a leveling zone already and has been since day 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luminant Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I literally was disgusted at seeing someone as terrible as him being a top ranked pvper, and getting compliments on his stream about how pro he is. Noobs see battlemaster with a premade healer keeping him alive and think OMG THIS GUY IS SUPER PRO, THIS IS THE PINNACLE OF MARAUDER PVP, when in reality a lvl 30 could beat him 1v1, probably even with his gear advantage. He also had his friends make fake accounts on reddit and post about his stream saying stuff like "omg whered this guy come from hes so pro" Sorry but that is a prime example of pathetic. Obviously you are going to use the gear you farmed for, however it should be to show accomplishment, how hard you worked...not give you some stupid stat boost. PvP is about balance, not grinding to get stat boosts. The title Battlemaster in this game supports the same amount of skill required to get the "Black Bisector" title. SOMEONE took a reddit troll seriously. Id be happy if you showed some proof about these really powerful lvl30s though. It honestly astounds me. Good day sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrandis Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 While it's admirable you would opt to nerf your own class, to be honest I don't understand what all the beef is about Scoundrels and Op's. In the month I have been playing this game I very rarely see them at the tops of the charts. I admit they can be a pain to spar with at first, but once you learn what to do against them, they are really no different than any other class. Yeah I hate being knocked down or kicked in the crotch as much as the next person, but I don't see them as over powered. Of course I don't see Sorcs as overpowered either, and I don't play either of those classes. To be honest the only thing that ever really bothered me about some of the stealth classes in this game is the apparent ability to "vanish" while a dot is still ticking on the player. Damage is damage and I don't think you should be able to vanish when you have been set on fire. If this isn't actually the case by all means feel free to correct me. Have fun ! As for us disappearing with vanish. Scoundrel's have a passive ability that when they use an Ability called Dodge, it removes all debuffs. It's a green bubble. As for my class getting nerfed, the smaller the fight, the better we do. When you get into 5v5 fights or 4v4 fight is when we get pretty easy to shut down with a little dash of situational awareness. Especially with tanks and healers running in the mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junebugs Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Yeah when was the last time you stacked "Hit" for pvp in WoW and whatever it's equivalent was in Rift? Those were both pve and thus raid specific stats. Granted I haven't pvp'd or raided in WoW since last February and I got bored of Rift back in September, so I might be calling them by the wrong names, but both games had one stat that was pve specific and one that was pvp specific. Both games required you to have two sets of gear. One for PvP because of the PvP stat, and one for PvE because raiding required something different. So in SwTor what is this PvE stat that requires a PvP stat in order to compensate and level the playing field? I am not aware of one. Based on what I am hearing in the forums RNG in pvp here is just like RNG was in PvE raiding elsewhere. What more do they really need if you feel that getting gear in pvp is too easy beyond RNG? Have fun ! You allways had a hit cap for PvP in WoW...... Every stat you used for raiding in WoW you used for PvP only thing is resilience replaced one of those stats so it comes down to balancing your stats properly with resilience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalindran Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 You bad players who think skill exists in a tab target 1.5 global cooldown game need to go play something with a real skill ceiling before you try and pretend you're good because you can compete at a level any serious gamer laughs at. Try an FPS, RTS or fighting game and see how 'good' you are. This game is easy. Any RTS with more than one playable race/build has the same issues with balance as any MMO. If you played enough RTS you'd already know that. FYI Starcraft is not the only RTS out there. As for FPS, played one played them all. From what I hear the next gen FPS are gonna end up having a "gear gaps" too because people love them their rankings and want to feel like unique snowflakes because of it. So as they say "same poop, different game". Have fun ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junebugs Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Any RTS with more than one playable race/build has the same issues with balance as any MMO. If you played enough RTS you'd already know that. FYI Starcraft is not the only RTS out there. As for FPS, played one played them all. From what I hear the next gen FPS are gonna end up having a "gear gaps" too because people love them their rankings and want to feel like unique snowflakes because of it. So as they say "same poop, different game". Have fun ! Lol thats already started the meta game is getting out of control in FPS games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradigamer Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Did you honestly forget the part where even the developers said that creating their arena system was one of the biggest mistakes they ever made? The only reason it still exists to this day is because you simply cannot "put the poopiez back into the goose". It is also probably the reason why no MMO since has ever bothered with it. Nuff said. Have fun ! I was thinking about this as I read the OP. Really, I don't care if people want arena and get it, as long as their arena gear doesn't have any effect on other forms of pvp. Let them do it for fancy color customization or titles and it's fine by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandoichi Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Im not bashing you but this should be expected from todays MMO community it comes down to who puts the most effort in now only thing to do is accept it and move on Well that's a big factor in why so many of the MMOs that came out in the past couple years lost half their subscribers in the first month. Dev's need to understand major reasons why they are losing their playerbase and need to stop cloning the standard MMO model today. Swtor will be more successful than rift/aion/warhammer/aoc mainly because of the Star Wars name and its fanbase. Bioware did good things by trying a new profession system, massive worlds, and little things like datacrons, puzzles, etc. The legacy system will probably be just like the AA system in EQ1, but spread across your account. These are nice and all, but they failed hard on PvP. Honestly without the Star Wars name/fanbase behind it, swtor would become just another f2p failed MMO in a year. Also, if you did spend the time grinding to battlemaster, you should be angry that everyone got it for free within hours after 1.1 came out. I'm hoping GW2 does it correctly, because swtor certainly didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junebugs Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I was thinking about this as I read the OP. Really, I don't care if people want arena and get it, as long as their arena gear doesn't have any effect on other forms of pvp. Let them do it for fancy color customization or titles and it's fine by me. Exactly the way people need to look at it instead of just bashing away As i said earlier there needs to be only 1 set of gear having multiple sets of PvP gear (tiers) is what starts making it crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junebugs Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Well that's a big factor in why so many of the MMOs that came out in the past couple years lost half their subscribers in the first month. Dev's need to understand major reasons why they are losing their playerbase and need to stop cloning the standard MMO model today. Swtor will be more successful than rift/aion/warhammer/aoc mainly because of the Star Wars name and its fanbase. Bioware did good things by trying a new profession system, massive worlds, and little things like datacrons, puzzles, etc. The legacy system will probably be just like the AA system in EQ1, but spread across your account. These are nice and all, but they failed hard on PvP. Honestly without the Star Wars name/fanbase behind it, swtor would become just another f2p failed MMO in a year. Also, if you did spend the time grinding to battlemaster, you should be angry that everyone got it for free within hours after 1.1 came out. I'm hoping GW2 does it correctly, because swtor certainly didn't. Yes this is all really a sad sight the past year has been rough for us im close to just giving up on MMOs all together go play some failbox games or something idk :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalindran Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 You allways had a hit cap for PvP in WoW...... Every stat you used for raiding in WoW you used for PvP only thing is resilience replaced one of those stats so it comes down to balancing your stats properly with resilience As I said its been nearly a year since I played last, so I might be using the name of the wrong stat, but I definitely recall there was a reason why I had two sometimes three full sets of gear in WoW (depending on which of my toons I was in and which spec I was using) and it was because of one specific stat that was important only for raiding and because resilience was needed for pvp. My point being is you needed on stat for pve and another for pvp. Rift had the same exact deal except they had Valor instead of Resilience, and I never had to have more than two sets of gear. The point being I am not aware of a similar situation here in SwTor. I am not aware of a "PvE required stat" that something like the pvp stat is meant to balance, so the need for a pvp centric stat is unneeded so far as I can see. I honestly believe the only reason it is there is because they had something similar in WoW and Rift. Have fun ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owdee Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Before you go posting misleading information, the dev only said it was a mistake because it's impossible to balance pve and pvp. Obviously WoW has a lot of children who enjoy pve carebearing around. You know what else Ron said? He said "if I can go back in time before the game shipped I would have either made serious changes to basic class balance to facilitate that type of play, or if I went back to when we had the idea two years later, I would have said, "Maybe we shouldn't go there." What part of that statement does he only say "oh its a crap idea." No he just admits balance is a problem which it is... HOWEVER that hasnt been a single season every single class was able to attain gladiator. Why? Because skill > gear The argument that entry level is too hard is flawed. It is EXTREMELY easy, especially now considering you can get weapons from honor, to rank up. I got 2200 on the said to be worst class in the game right now in honor blues from s9. Fact: people who complain about arena, suck at it and it hurt their epeens cause they arent slaying internet dragons for style points Fact: Swtor will never care about arena because it's like 1% of mmo population Fact: Guild Wars 2 is the most hyped up, and exciting mmo of 2012. There is a reason it is rated above swtor on every single gaming website. It is better. GW1 sucked, gw2 alpha client runs smoother than swtor. Keep complaing that you dont want arena and drive more players away from the game. Swtor has already lost probably half their subscribers before the first month. BTW when arenas came out in BC, they were INCREDIBLY popular, and to say they werent is just lying and misleading. I would love to see another interview with a wow dev now. Here would be my question... "whats your opinion on arena now after watching so many failed mmo launches and their inability to tap into the competitive pvp market?" There is a reason there is an arena competition at every blizzcon and people get paid to play arena. You don't get paid to play something thats unpopular. I’m just curious as to if you intentionally decide to literally stuff yourself so full of crap that if forces you to leak it out on the forums. I really don’t care if they add arena or not. If not having arena causes butthurt people like you to leave. Well, happy trails I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junebugs Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 As I said its been nearly a year since I played last, so I might be using the name of the wrong stat, but I definitely recall there was a reason why I had two sometimes three full sets of gear in WoW (depending on which of my toons I was in and which spec I was using) and it was because of one specific stat that was important only for raiding and because resilience was needed for pvp. My point being is you needed on stat for pve and another for pvp. Rift had the same exact deal except they had Valor instead of Resilience, and I never had to have more than two sets of gear. The point being I am not aware of a similar situation here in SwTor. I am not aware of a "PvE required stat" that something like the pvp stat is meant to balance, so the need for a pvp centric stat is unneeded so far as I can see. I honestly believe the only reason it is there is because they had something similar in WoW and Rift. Have fun ! Well you need 2 if you did PvE and PvP and if you tanked/healed and DPS you needed another only difference is your PvE gear would have more crit/hit/haste and no resilience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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