Why people hate arenas

[Jetflair]

Class system and arena don't match well. Some classes are going to be always better in certain limited environment than others.

 

That said I personally notice I enjoy pvp more if there is an objective. Far more friendly to people climbing up pvp ladder than duels against people they can't win because gear.

[Knifewrench]

Arena requires the most out of every team player. While there is the hurdle of class imbalance, that's nullified if a player, as a player, is good enough to master that class' role and synergy with its partners anyways.

 

Not everyone can do that because it requires devotion... and it's just another case of looking how far you want to go, then see someone who wants to go more and look at them with disgust. If you're Korean, you won't know that feeling, though.

[Junebugs]

I think SWTOR needs arena cause nobody supports world PvP nobody ever goes to Outlaws Den and honestly alot of the time i just want to kill people without worrying about an objective

 

Edit: My 50 logs out of Outlaws Den and logs into it i havent seen 1 person in a week that 50 is collecting dust there and it will prob stay that way

Edited January 20, 2012 by Junebugs

[Testdept]

Arenas is ok when you want to show or test your skills. Arenas as tool for gear grind sux.

Open world pvp with social aspects is that what is needed, loose exp, gear if you are flaged for pvp and die is prety nice adrenaline gain tool, but looks like old good pvp time is dead.

[Ratham]

So 2-5 people choosing the FOTM class combo to faceroll other arena teams means its more competitive/skilled?

 

K

[Dalindran]

It's sad to see any opposition to "earning" your pvp gear. It's disgusting to see people being able to lose every fight and still get battlemaster gear/title. Warzone grinding is the most dated and boring mechanic ever.

 

It is not so much an "opposition to earning pvp gear" as it is an opposition to needing specific gear in order to pvp successfully that personally bothers me the most. I hated carrying multiple sets of gear in WoW and Rift, in order to take advantage of all the game had to offer, I sure as hell don't like the idea of it here any better.

 

While I haven't reached end game yet (and trust me I am taking my time with my last 8 lvls) I am not aware of a PvE specific stat, so why exactly is there a need for "Expertise" and a PvP stat again? Seems to me in the past a PvP stat was always created solely to counterbalance a PvE specific raiding stat so that Raiders didn't have an unfair advantage in PvP. Is there some PvE specific raiding stat I am not aware of in this game?

 

Get rid of expertise and you can "earn" all the cute lil peices of "lol-pvp" gear you want so far as I'm concerned. Guess I just prefer my pvp to be "bring the player" as opposed to "bring the gear". To each their own.

 

Have fun !

[Junebugs]

It is not so much an "opposition to earning pvp gear" as it is an opposition to needing specific gear in order to pvp successfully that personally bothers me the most. I hated carrying multiple sets of gear in WoW and Rift, in order to take advantage of all the game had to offer, I sure as hell don't like the idea of it here any better.

 

While I haven't reached end game yet (and trust me I am taking my time with my last 8 lvls) I am not aware of a PvE specific stat, so why exactly is there a need for "Expertise" and a PvP stat again? Seems to me in the past a PvP stat was always created solely to counterbalance a PvE specific raiding stat so that Raiders didn't have an unfair advantage in PvP. Is there some PvE specific raiding stat I am not aware of in this game?

 

Get rid of expertise and you can "earn" all the cute lil peices of "lol-pvp" gear you want so far as I'm concerned. Guess I just prefer my pvp to be "bring the player" as opposed to "bring the gear". To each their own.

 

Have fun !

 

People like you completely miss the point of PvP gear if it wasnt for that gear the people like me that NEVER PvE would get ROFLPWN by the raiders and such

 

The things is there should only be 1 PvP set of gear ONE the multiple sets is what makes it all screwed up

Edited January 21, 2012 by Junebugs

[Luminant]

once again any gear earned should be cosmetic to show accomplishment but have 0 effect on stats. If you are so skilled than you shouldn't need all kinds of stat boosters to keep winning matches. BTW if you are the BM Marauder "Luminant" who streams on twitch, then you are a walking example of someone who just warzone grinded 24/7 to get battlemaster and still play like a level 30. You are the poster child for someone who gets carried by gear. I almost rerolled off my sentinel after seeing how poor you performed as a battlemaster, but once I got him to 50, I just realized you are terrible at PvP. Also sad that you had your friends post on your reddit stream announcement under new accounts to hype you up into something you aren't. If you aren't that Luminant, then my mistake

 

and to the guy who said that no one forced you to play arena in WoW if you didn't like it: yes, that is correct however arena directly affected every other pvper in the game since the area gear could be used outside of arena. Therefore you are always at a disadvantage in stats unless you play arena, therefore you are FORCED to play arena to have a balanced, equal fight with another player who did play arena. This further reinforces why armor stats in PvP are completely retarded.

 

Why are you so offended? It's funny how BM gear is about a datacron's upgrade over champion gear. You must be pretty jealous in order to do all that research about me. But, sadly you haven't done enough. Perhaps you should try to insult my playerskill after watching this video.

 

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=189563

 

Regardless of that, my point still stands, arena needs to exist in order to create a competitive playerbase.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Luminant

[Junebugs]

Why are you so offended? It's funny how BM gear is about a datacron's upgrade over champion gear. You must be pretty jealous in order to do all that research about me. But, sadly you haven't done enough. Perhaps you should try to insult my playerskill after watching this video.

 

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=189563

 

Regardless of that, my point still stands, arena needs to exist in order to create a competitive playerbase.

 

Im kinda with you here but then again im not

 

Screw skill, arena is FUN and the closest thing you will get to world PvP in MMOs now days i was heart broken when WoW removed arena skirmishes

[Kyrandis]

I hate to break it to you, but EA is generally about objective and squad combat. And you think arena is a test of skill, sure is, but so is other forms of competitive play.

 

Arena/Kill based combat would be a death sentence to this game. Compared to WoW this game is EVEN more Comp dependent, and EVEN more Gear dependent. Especially considering the Holy Trinity is in PvP as well. It isn't just Healer/DPS anymore.

 

They've already said ladders would be implemented, but I would not hold your breath on it being arena or killing based content.

[Caffinated]

It makes no sense to me.

 

It's like going to play some football, and then demanding after you win that you want special pads that will make winning easier next time.

 

The whole concept is so ANTI-competitive it blows my mind.

 

Except not everyone wants to do flashpoints and operations. PvP is a less serious way to enjoy the game without making serious commitments of time and energy for large group encounters.

 

I'm sure the people who want to PvE would probably be pissed off if these started dropping PvP gear, too.

[Luminant]

I hate to break it to you, but EA is generally about objective and squad combat. And you think arena is a test of skill, sure is, but so is other forms of competitive play.

 

Arena/Kill based combat would be a death sentence to this game. Compared to WoW this game is EVEN more Comp dependent, and EVEN more Gear dependent. Especially considering the Holy Trinity is in PvP as well. It isn't just Healer/DPS anymore.

 

They've already said ladders would be implemented, but I would not hold your breath on it being arena or killing based content.

 

Not every comp will be viable, that is a 100% guarentee. Not every comp should be viable. It's like saying you want to play 5 carries on Dota and expect to win. Don't bring that argument here please.

 

The gear issue is something that was never a big deal in arena. Past a certain rating everyone has the same gear and then it just relies on comp/skill levels.

[Sandoichi]

Why are you so offended? It's funny how BM gear is about a datacron's upgrade over champion gear. You must be pretty jealous in order to do all that research about me. But, sadly you haven't done enough. Perhaps you should try to insult my playerskill after watching this video.

 

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=189563

 

Regardless of that, my point still stands, arena needs to exist in order to create a competitive playerbase.

 

Why would I watch a movie you put together? Lets see, a movie where you choose specific clips is supposed to reflect your skill more than watching your warzone matches from start to finish? LOL

 

Watching you in BM gear, dpsing nonstop from start to finish and still doing under 250k damage in the majority of your matches while also having a pocket healer keeping you up at all times; Being unable to correctly do sentinel rotations, multitask in fights, and properly control a situation involving more than 1 enemy.. I've seen enough. You show no skill at all, yet you have a title reflecting a top PvP rank in this game and a stat boost above everyone else. This was like a week or two ago, before everyone became battlemasters in Ilum so yes, back then you indeed had a huge boost over the majority of the population since most people didn't even have full champion or centurion gear at that time. Actually now that I think about it, prepatch you weren't even fighting level 50s half the time so why are you trying to say you only had a datacron's advantage over them? LOL.

 

Once again, you are a walking example of why stats should be completely left out of PvP. The PvP system that this game has is extremely outdated and just a copy of the PvE system. Time played = PvP status in this game, not skill. If swtor warzones were stat neutral, you would be getting flat out beat by level 20s.

 

If you want PvP gear to earn, then you should push for cosmetic gear that means something and doesn't give you an advantage over anyone. Push for gear that makes your appearance unique to show your achievements. Gear that you have to continue playing and stay on top in order to wear...oh wait you wouldn't support this because you would never have it.

 

And no, I didn't do any "research" on you at all. I watched a handful of top valor rank sentinel/marauder streams when I started my sentinel alt, and your's happened to intrigue me at first since you had battlemaster gear, but after watching you for a few hours I nearly deleted my character because I thought that they were complete underpowered crap based on your playstyle.

[Luminant]

Why would I watch a movie you put together? Lets see, a movie where you choose specific clips is supposed to reflect your skill more than watching your warzone matches from start to finish? LOL

 

Watching you in BM gear, dpsing nonstop from start to finish and still doing under 250k damage in the majority of your matches while also having a pocket healer keeping you up at all times; Being unable to correctly do sentinel rotations, multitask in fights, and properly control a situation involving more than 1 enemy.. I've seen enough. You show no skill at all, yet you have a title reflecting a top PvP rank in this game and a stat boost above everyone else. This was like a week or two ago, before everyone became battlemasters in Ilum so yes, back then you indeed had a huge boost over the majority of the population since most people didn't even have full champion or centurion gear at that time. Actually now that I think about it, prepatch you weren't even fighting level 50s half the time so why are you trying to say you only had a datacron's advantage over them? LOL.

 

Once again, you are a walking example of why stats should be completely left out of PvP. The PvP system that this game has is extremely outdated and just a copy of the PvE system. Time played = PvP status in this game, not skill. If swtor warzones were stat neutral, you would be getting flat out beat by level 20s.

 

If you want PvP gear to earn, then you should push for cosmetic gear that means something and doesn't give you an advantage over anyone. Push for gear that makes your appearance unique to show your achievements. Gear that you have to continue playing and stay on top in order to wear...oh wait you wouldn't support this because you would never have it.

 

And no, I didn't do any "research" on you at all. I watched a handful of top valor rank sentinel/marauder streams when I started my sentinel alt, and your's happened to intrigue me at first since you had battlemaster gear, but after watching you for a few hours I nearly deleted my character because I thought that they were complete underpowered crap based on your playstyle.

 

A whole essay, for me? How sweet. Sadly enough, none of that bothers me at all since the video was not even put together by me. But do you know what was put together by me? The rating. The 2800 rating that I believe you would've never even scratched in arena. So go ahead, try and make a dent since apparently my existence is personal to you.

 

It's not the first time I've been high rated too. Here have my armory and take it all in.

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/sargeras/Luminant/simple

 

You can say "omg gear is carrying you" but you must not know math then because I have about a.......20 str advantage over everyone. Will a 20 str advantage allow for 1v3's? 20 str must be super strong then. Maybe I should get my datacrons.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Luminant

[Dalindran]

People like you completely miss the point of PvP gear if it wasnt for that gear the people like me that NEVER PvE would get ROFLPWN by the raiders and such

 

The things is there should only be 1 PvP set of gear ONE the multiple sets is what makes it all screwed up

 

Actually I think you missed the point. The whole reason that "pvp gear" was created in WoW and then Rift was to allow for a PvP stat that could compete with a Raid specific Stat. What is the Raid specific stat in SwTor? I am not personally aware of one and have said as much previously. Again I am also not at endgame yet, and have said that as well.

 

The point being is you can earn gear via pvp, but it doesn't require a pvp centric stat, it only needs to be on par with what is available from raids stat wise to have an even playing field between raiders and non raiders. The pvp specific stat is a crutch for lazy developers and carebear pvper's looking for a loot pinata of their own to make them feel uber.

 

Which of course brings us to the other major whine I see among pvpers in this game. I see a lot of posts complaining about RNG on pvp gear and yet raiders have been dealing with RNG for years. Welcome to their world. Somehow it seems pvpers want equality with endgame raiders so long as it favors them.

 

I should think not having to depend on 10 to 20 other people, or against members of the same class for a chance to get "your drop" would be enough, seeing that all that is really required to get pvp gear is putting your time in. Hell you don't even have to good at your role to earn pvp gear, you just have to show up long enough. But nope the carebear pvp crowd is looking for an easier loot pinata so they cry about that too.

 

I have been an avid pvper and an avid raider since I started playing MMO's, and I started playing them long before WoW showed up, and nonsense like pvp gear and pvp stats became the norm. I know why it is present, I fully understand the concept behind it, but I never liked it and never will.

 

Have fun !

[dopebeats]

because a clown who died 3 times a week could steamroll me and my full t6 just because he had resilience?.... sry i rolled on pvp server and loved world pvp i guess its too much to imagine that it was actually alive once upon a time. i know its hard to grasp but people used to pvp not in bgs or arenas but u know... open world... imagine that...

and way to compare an rpg mmo with fighting game... you sir are brilliant i mean those 2 genres have pretty much everything in common.

theres a marvelous interview with blizzard dev who said he would either design everything before they launched differently to turn it into e-sport or never should have included arenas. if even devs admit it was a mistake in clear and not roundabout fasion then perhaps its just you... and your need to tell people u are so 1337 haxor because with every patch u roll a different toon. that is currently best for arenas. yay for you. go play shooters if you care about that so much. nothing needed besides good reflexes and eyes and u can always brag how u roflcoptered those n00bz with a pistol headshots.

 

LOL ok man, i was on a pvp server to for alot of WoW and you are mad because you got steamrolled because of resil? So a guy who has pvp gear wins pvp fights and you are mad? Anyway, open world pvp is fun I use to open world pvp a decent bit but as for competitive pvp I enjoyed arenas. In fact i'd argue that arenaing makes you an overall better pvper making you more effective in open world pvp. Anyway, i dont need to tell people how good I am I would rather show it to them and compete in arena matches. The funny thing about this specific fighting game and arena is they really do have a decent bit in common. Its a 3v3 game where team composition and team synergy has alot to do with your success. It is not perfectly balanced nor will it ever be, there is an ever evolving metagame each and everyday. This happens with almost EVERY game. This happens in dota-clones, fighting games, arena and hell even poker has an ever changing metagame. The crazy thing is this actually shows the longevity of a game. In fact this is what being a competitor is all about. You develop a strategy, and your opposition develops counters to your strategy and you develop counters to his counters. Also, this doesn't even need to be complex you can look at something as simple as fakecasting and see the evolving metagame it has. This is why I think the solution is clear, don't balance around arenas unless something is gamebreakingly broken. Introduce a simple system of rulesets/mechanics and allow the game evolve on its own.

[Junebugs]

A whole essay, for me? How sweet. Sadly enough, none of that bothers me at all since the video was not even put together by me. But do you know what was put together by me? The rating. The 2800 rating that I believe you would've never even scratched in arena. So go ahead, try and make a dent since apparently my existence is personal to you.

 

It's not the first time I've been high rated too. Here have my armory and take it all in.

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/sargeras/Luminant/simple

 

You can say "omg gear is carrying you" but you must not know math then because I have about a.......20 str advantage over everyone. Will a 20 str advantage allow for 1v3's? 20 str must be super strong then. Maybe I should get my datacrons.

 

Gear can carry you in WoW dont try to say it wont but really it sounds like that guy is just QQing if you put effort into getting the gear than screw what anyone thinks IMO not going to farm for gear to not use it cause i have an "advantage"

[Kyrandis]

Not every comp will be viable, that is a 100% guarentee. Not every comp should be viable. It's like saying you want to play 5 carries on Dota and expect to win. Don't bring that argument here please.

 

The gear issue is something that was never a big deal in arena. Past a certain rating everyone has the same gear and then it just relies on comp/skill levels.

 

You are correct there. It does become less gear dependent later on, but entry level can be a nightmare for newcomers(gear gap), discouraging others from joining it. If they removed gear and replaced with with bolster, maybe it could be done. That way it would br competitive on all levels. Reward titles, glory items, commendations for buying better gear to use in Warzones and the like.

 

But if it was kill dependent, instead of objective, even I would be riding the nerf to train for scoundrels(my own class mind you). If would take quite a bit of re-balancing of the classes to make it competitive in a strictly killing matter.

[Junebugs]

Actually I think you missed the point. The whole reason that "pvp gear" was created in WoW and then Rift was to allow for a PvP stat that could compete with a Raid specific Stat. What is the Raid specific stat in SwTor? I am not personally aware of one and have said as much previously. Again I am also not at endgame yet, and have said that as well.

 

The point being is you can earn gear via pvp, but it doesn't require a pvp centric stat, it only needs to be on par with what is available from raids stat wise to have an even playing field between raiders and non raiders. The pvp specific stat is a crutch for lazy developers and carebear pvper's looking for a loot pinata of their own to make them feel uber.

 

Which of course brings us to the other major whine I see among pvpers in this game. I see a lot of posts complaining about RNG on pvp gear and yet raiders have been dealing with RNG for years. Welcome to their world. Somehow it seems pvpers want equality with endgame raiders so long as it favors them.

 

I should think not having to depend on 10 to 20 other people, or against members of the same class for a chance to get "your drop" would be enough, seeing that all that is really required to get pvp gear is putting your time in. Hell you don't even have to good at your role to earn pvp gear, you just have to show up long enough. But nope the carebear pvp crowd is looking for an easier loot pinata so they cry about that too.

 

I have been an avid pvper and an avid raider since I started playing MMO's, and I started playing them long before WoW showed up, and nonsense like pvp gear and pvp stats became the norm. I know why it is present, I fully understand the concept behind it, but I never liked it and never will.

 

Have fun !

 

Raid specific stat? lol are you serious?

 

Anyways i see what your saying but then if it were like that it would be to easy to obtain good gear from PvP that raiders worked their azz off for and then that would start some retarded QQ

Edited January 21, 2012 by Junebugs

[Danyphantom]

Arenas destroy PvP.

 

Seriously look at WoW.

 

that's kind of funny, because WoW PvP was garbage before arenas and garbage after they stopped caring about arenas. nice try though.

[Haristo]

I don't like Arenas because I find them boring. Seriously. I prefer over-the-top 8vs8 skirmishes with respawn and applicable strategies, there's a chance of our luck come back even if we're losing since the beggining, it's just more exciting.

 

I don't not want them to introduce Arenas or [insertanamethatwouldmeanarenahere] not because I dislikethem, but just because it's a waste of time considering the majority thinks like me.

[Sandoichi]

A whole essay, for me? How sweet. Sadly enough, none of that bothers me at all since the video was not even put together by me. But do you know what was put together by me? The rating. The 2800 rating that I believe you would've never even scratched in arena. So go ahead, try and make a dent since apparently my existence is personal to you.

 

It's not the first time I've been high rated too. Here have my armory and take it all in.

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/sargeras/Luminant/simple

 

You can say "omg gear is carrying you" but you must not know math then because I have about a.......20 str advantage over everyone. Will a 20 str advantage allow for 1v3's? 20 str must be super strong then. Maybe I should get my datacrons.

 

Sorry I didn't know WoW rating meant something on swtor? And why are you bragging about a rating on a game where PvP has been a joke for the past couple years? How about I defend my swtor skill by telling you how good I was at Diablo 2 pvp? LOL

 

Um sorry what? 20 str avantage over everyone? I watched your stream over a week before 1.1 so you were fighting people under level 50 and mostly people who didn't even have full champion gear. Try 300+ stats, expertise advantage, damage advantage, and a premade keeping you alive.

[Luminant]

You are correct there. It does become less gear dependent later on, but entry level can be a nightmare for newcomers(gear gap), discouraging others from joining it. If they removed gear and replaced with with bolster, maybe it could be done. That way it would br competitive on all levels. Reward titles, glory items, commendations for buying better gear to use in Warzones and the like.

 

But if it was kill dependent, instead of objective, even I would be riding the nerf to train for scoundrels(my own class mind you). If would take quite a bit of re-balancing of the classes to make it competitive in a strictly killing matter.

 

It's not just "less" gear dependent. I can tell you this from personal experience, everyone DOES have the same gear past 2500 ratings on WoW. The reason being because the arena point gain starts to DR after 2200~. The only difficult thing as an entry level player is reaching that 2200~ rating. But that's the fun about it. After sitting on gladiator for 5 seasons, I've looked back upon how much fun it was to aim for 2200 my first time and how glorious it was in order to reach it.

 

Even after I reached that, there was ongoing progression to be had after 2200 which is why I loved arena so much. There was always someone better and always higher ratings to strive for.

[Junebugs]

I don't like Arenas because I find them boring. Seriously. I prefer over-the-top 8vs8 skirmishes with respawn and applicable strategies, there's a chance of our luck come back even if we're losing since the beggining, it's just more exciting.

 

I don't not want them to introduce Arenas or [insertanamethatwouldmeanarenahere] not because I dislikethem, but just because it's a waste of time considering the majority thinks like me.

 

Waste of time? Thats all MMOs are and thats what the MMO community fails to see now days..

 

I remeber not getting a shiny medal everything i did but now thats unacceptable for the pathetic players now

[Luminant]

Sorry I didn't know WoW rating meant something on swtor? And why are you bragging about a rating on a game where PvP has been a joke for the past couple years? How about I defend my swtor skill by telling you how good I was at Diablo 2 pvp? LOL

 

Um sorry what? 20 str avantage over everyone? I watched your stream over a week before 1.1 so you were fighting people under level 50 and mostly people who didn't even have full champion gear. Try 300+ stats, expertise advantage, damage advantage, and a premade keeping you alive.

 

The blatant similarities between WoW and swtor reflect my great performance. You're opinions mean nothing to me and from this post forward anything negative you say to me will be regarded as harassment. I'm bored of you and you're a waste of my time. Have a good day random kid.